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MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to mikee

Re: CNOC speed matching decision due next week

said by mikee:

Whats a POI?

Cable equivalent of a Bell central office.
Its where all the wires for a fairly large geographic area come together. Or in the case of a large city, the area may be small but the # of lines is huge.

Rogers has about 30 POI's around the province. By November 15th, all indie ISP's using cable will not have to connect at each POI they want to serve. They will instead connect to Rogers main cable plant on York Mills Rd. in Toronto. One set of wire cutters could do a LOT of damage - I hope that indies ensure that there are multiple fibre routes out of that complex. The York Mills complex has a major railway line running right beside it - gotta hope there's no big derailment with propane tankers next to it.

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to underubb

said by underubb :

said by koreyb:

said by underubb :

lol; If we all move to start the switch to aggregated will be a lot faster/easier for TSI.

Not totally... less income tsi has, the less they will be able to afford to throw at this.

TSI Marc implied the limiting factor was "shuffling" and waiting for Rogers to install hardware, he made no mention of a $ shortage... heck I would totally pay more to TSI and suffer an outage, and many other things if it made TSI's transition to aggregated faster...

...9 months maybe(tm)...

If people run for the exit on mass, and there is no customers at the same level to replace them, this will cause an income issue, and will in turn cause a shortage of cashflow to pay for things. That was my point..

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed

1 recommendation

reply to Teddy Boom

said by Teddy Boom:

said by koreyb:

I recommended someone to TSI, and went against my recommendation due to a CSR saying the cheaper one would work and now complains about slow downs, which from what tests I have done, seems to be local node congestion D2's are affected directly by. I have a D3 on the same poi, in the same building and have 0 issue.

This isn't really the right thread for the discussion.. In fact I think we should open up another overarching modem thread because a lot of things should be happening (D2 rules changes, new modems?, status of DCW775).

However, I will say.. your sample size just isn't big enough. I've explained the difference between Docsis levels to at least 150 customers over the last year. I give my customers 90 days to change their minds at no cost. The vast majority of Express customers choose the cheaper modem, and none have come back for an exchange.

Also, a simple factory reset can clear up a lot of congestion issues on D2 modems (and presumably D3 as well). A factory reset allows the modem to change to a less congested channel.

Not to continue this, but lower tech users will not "FACTORY RESET" nor will they mess around with the modem. It either works or it doesn't. I know a lot of people with D2 modems.. almost every one has issues during peak. My point was, D2 modems are obsolete, and to sell a D2 modem and the headache that comes with it to keep it working properly in highly populated areas especially, is not fair or right for lower tech customers. It leaves very bad taste of the ISP, as most think this is an issue with the ISP, not the technology they are using. Look at these forums, and you will see this. Rogers refuses to give anyone over 15mb a d2 modem at this point, so it's time they do the same for the new speed tiers on TPIA. You may not like it, but D2's days are over. Moving forward TSI knowing this is coming, should pick up a cheaper D3 modem like Acanac and others have, for people on a budget, but stop selling D2, as well warn people with D2, they may experience slow downs during peek. They do this with 28x1, but not 18, which has been well documented on here and off as an issue.

I'm not discrediting your theory, but we has more "TECHNICALLY INCLINED" need to realise not all share this and just want things to work correctly without having to "FACTORY RESET" or play with it. It's why APPLE does well.

Dunlop

join:2011-07-13
kudos:2
reply to mlerner

I had the joy of dealing with a flood all day so am a little out of the loop, there was no announcement?

I thought fridays were reserved for bad news, which I highly doubt the announcement will be



squircle

join:2009-06-23
Oakville, ON

You want page 5: »CNOC speed matching decision due next week


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to elitefx

said by elitefx:

said by TSI Marc:

.. We'll have to see how it goes...

Why not go after a different demographic for the next year till things sort themselves out?

Current packages at amazing discounted prices. Probably a million light to moderate users out there would be thrilled to catch a break on their already too high utility costs by using your current lineup.

If No Frills can pull it off why not "Teksavvy, Your Canadian Discount ISP".

Give a 10% seniors discount etc. Create a whole new niche in the Internet marketplace.

Margins are already super tight at Teksavvy. It costs them at least $20 a customer to lease the last mile from Rogers. Once you add in capacity costs, labour, marketing etc. the profits margins aren't high enough to lower prices while being profitable. If they're going to go the no frills route, something is going to have to give. The fees that Teksavvy pays to Rogers are non negotiable, so the only other things you can cut is your customer support stuff. Also, seniors light internet users are unlikely to even know that TPIAs like Teksavvy exists. To reach those customers, Teksavvy would have to spend more money on marketing to reach that consumer segment.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

We only knew about this speed matching thing in December...

What December would that be? Pretty sure incumbents started filing their 2011-703/704 TNs around December 2011. That's when Rogers originally said they were only doing speed matching on aggregated and the CRTC agreed with Rogers' tariff to that effect in the following months... so TSI should have known about this for over a year already.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to koreyb

said by koreyb:

I'm not discrediting your theory, but we has more "TECHNICALLY INCLINED" need to realise not all share this and just want things to work correctly without having to "FACTORY RESET" or play with it.

If Rogers configured their CMTS properly, the CMTS should automatically issue dynamic channel switch instructions to D2 modems to balance the load across available U/D QAMs on the node, no need to reset the modem for that.

If none of the QAMs have enough spare capacity to accommodate someone trying to use 15+Mbps on D2 then yeah, they are very much screwed.

The same thing that makes DOC3 great screws DOC2 big time: DOC3 allows much more efficient QAM filling and more tightly packed QAMs means less room to accommodate bursty DOC2 modems, which is why most cablecos are axing high-speed tiers on DOC2.

In short: DOC3 breaks DOC2.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26

1 recommendation

reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

said by TSI Marc:

We only knew about this speed matching thing in December...

What December would that be? Pretty sure incumbents started filing their 2011-703/704 TNs around December 2011. That's when Rogers originally said they were only doing speed matching on aggregated and the CRTC agreed with Rogers' tariff to that effect in the following months... so TSI should have known about this for over a year already.

Sorry, that's not true. We had our speeds upgraded twice if I recall correctly since the 703/704 decisions. We fully expected that the speeds we had.. Would get upgraded the same way as they had always been.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

I_needhelp

join:2004-07-08
reply to mlerner

yo Marc, bro, York POI estimation at LEASTTT.

You can even lie to me if you want.


bbhog

join:2010-07-05
North York, ON

said by I_needhelp:

yo Marc, bro, York POI estimation at LEASTTT.

You can even lie to me if you want.

Let's wait till TSI can actually put a solid plan together. I'm sure they will let us know once they do. Definitely don't expect it before June.

chrisl83

join:2011-06-21
Almonte, ON
reply to mlerner

tek is going to be hurting if starts tariffs go well. Expecting an answer in Feb.

They might even offer unlimited 2-8 am downloads if the tariff is good.


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

Sorry, that's not true. We had our speeds upgraded twice if I recall correctly since the 703/704 decisions. We fully expected that the speeds we had.. Would get upgraded the same way as they had always been.

The newest set of "upgrades" were technically/officially introduced as new tiers rather than upgrades - gotta love loopholes. The 703/704 decisions did agree that Rogers had no obligation to offer new tiers under non-aggregated and the CRTC's latest decision simply echoed that.

Considering what happened to TSI last time Rogers bumped speeds by 30-50%, I would view the lack of new-tier speed matching on non-agg as a blessing in disguise since I doubt TSI's Rogers-TPIA subscribers would have enjoyed chronic peak-hours congestion for the next several months.


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:19
reply to chrisl83

said by chrisl83:

They might even offer unlimited 2-8 am downloads if the tariff is good.

Actually no, it is the opposite. If the tariff is good, rocca feels that unlimited overnight isn't worth the complication. He says you just raise caps overall and everybody is happy. However, if the tariffs suck, then he will consider an unlimited overnight system to make up for low caps due to high costs.
--
electronicsguru.ca

I_needhelp

join:2004-07-08
reply to bbhog

said by bbhog:

said by I_needhelp:

yo Marc, bro, York POI estimation at LEASTTT.

You can even lie to me if you want.

Let's wait till TSI can actually put a solid plan together. I'm sure they will let us know once they do. Definitely don't expect it before June.

Guess I'm better off just forgetting about it then. When it comes it comes

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

said by darrylr:

Marc,

Will you still offer the unlimited Ontario cable packages once we're on aggregated POIs? If so will the price move up because of aggregated POI?

I'm currently on the 28/1 unlimited pack.

for sure... hell yeah. what good is an awesome internet connection if you cant use it!

I really hope so. TSI is my only option with the pathetic options Start offers at the moment they cannot even be considered.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

said by TSI Marc:

Sorry, that's not true. We had our speeds upgraded twice if I recall correctly since the 703/704 decisions. We fully expected that the speeds we had.. Would get upgraded the same way as they had always been.

The newest set of "upgrades" were technically/officially introduced as new tiers rather than upgrades - gotta love loopholes. The 703/704 decisions did agree that Rogers had no obligation to offer new tiers under non-aggregated and the CRTC's latest decision simply echoed that.

Yeah... I suppose also though, the speeds we started at and would end up at we're actually far apart... I didn't think we would still be dealing with speed matching issues regardless though, that possibility seemed very foreign to me given how arduous a task it was to finally get to the bottom of that in the 703/704... Like more than half a decade...

The reality is that we do have speed matching.. As soon as we migrate, everybody gets the higher speeds. So in any case it's a temporary type of decision.

said by InvalidError:

Considering what happened to TSI last time Rogers bumped speeds by 30-50%, I would view the lack of new-tier speed matching on non-agg as a blessing in disguise since I doubt TSI's Rogers-TPIA subscribers would have enjoyed chronic peak-hours congestion for the next several months.

Well, sort of.. The thing is that without knowing if this decision was going to pass or not.. We didn't know where to throw ourselves... Focusing on Aggregated amounted to yet another added problem since we couldn't take our eye off the existing stuff which was very onerous... Just like we didn't know they were going to do three major speed upgrades in one year... When you're planning is already difficult due to the growth.. And you add in those factors... When we're already ordering links by the multiple dozen... It's been the equivalent to changing a transmission on a moving vehicle. Then add in everything else like copyright stuff..

Had it have passed, we would surely have had to work with Rogers to figure out when we might have enough capacity to light the new speeds up... Both them and us would have continued to invest in the legacy TPIA infrastructure, we likely would have had to order an extra 20gig links just to accommodate those upgrade... and it might have negatively affected existing users until those were in. And, ordering an extra 20 gig links ahead of time without knowing this decision didn't make any sense either, we were in a pickle... Which, makes Rogers request to not give the upgrade until we migrate reasonable in the end I think and it also makes the CRTCs decision to approve it.. reasonable. And we get some additional clarity on speeds to boot. ...and in the end everybody still gets the speed upgrades anyway.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

Petey1013

join:2013-01-30
Ottawa, ON

TSI Marc you're awesome.

And here's hoping Ottawa is first


funny

join:2010-12-22
reply to koreyb

said by koreyb:

If people run for the exit on mass, and there is no customers at the same level to replace them, this will cause an income issue, and will in turn cause a shortage of cashflow to pay for things. That was my point..

and show that the market is not working right as people are looking to pay less and can't....
oh well i guess we need more trillionaires

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by funny:

said by koreyb:

If people run for the exit on mass, and there is no customers at the same level to replace them, this will cause an income issue, and will in turn cause a shortage of cashflow to pay for things. That was my point..

and show that the market is not working right as people are looking to pay less and can't....
oh well i guess we need more trillionaires

TSI is far from a anything remotely close. Most would run to START which is even smaller. The likes of Bell or Rogers don't care as they get money from you anyhow no matter who you use.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to funny

said by funny:

and show that the market is not working right as people are looking to pay less and can't....

The market works or doesn't work based on what people are willing to pay, not what they want to pay.


Rickkins

join:2004-04-05
Mtl, Canada
reply to TSI Marc

Hey Marc.... no pressure or anything... ... but what does mean for higher speeds in the Montreal area....????



dillyhammer
START me up
Premium,MVM
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by mikee:

Alright well i'm just going to assume I'm in a population dense area. I live a 3 minute walk from CSIS,

Yep, they're pretty dense.

Coffee everywhere. Damn you.



Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged

bdoyledimou

join:2002-08-20
Markham, ON
reply to mlerner

So did i miss the announcement and it was unfavorable? or will take 1 year plus to attain?


bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1

said by bdoyledimou:

So did i miss the announcement and it was unfavorable? or will take 1 year plus to attain?

Marc's post-decision post: »Re: CNOC speed matching decision due next week


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to bdoyledimou

To sumarize:

The Decision here: CRTC: Telecom Decision CRTC 2013-36

Key posts to read by TSI Marc We will go from having 100+ links to 10-15 (10gig) links...

And so far it all looks good for us.
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to Rickkins

said by Rickkins:

Hey Marc.... no pressure or anything... ... but what does mean for higher speeds in the Montreal area....????

This affects Rogers cable on non-aggregated. Not Videotron.

Going by the little smiles here and there in another topic about videotron, it seems something is in the works and might be worth waiting for. Give it a month (+/-)

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to TwiztedZero

So down from 100 points of failure to 15.
Next upgrade will be down to a single point of failure.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to Rickkins

said by Rickkins:

Hey Marc.... no pressure or anything... ... but what does mean for higher speeds in the Montreal area....????

It does not change anything for Videotron since Videotron's TPIA has always been at least regionally aggregated... one POI in Montreal to access ~3M subscribers in that area, same goes for Quebec City, so two POIs to access ~85% of Videotron's footprint rather than Rogers' ~40.

So even before aggregated tariffs, Videotron was pretty much already aggregated anyhow... and before Bell's throttling, UBB, etc., the Videotron-TPIA tariffs were so bad, there was almost no advantage in going with a TPIA rather than Videotron itself, so almost no ISP bothered with it until Bell broke the camel's back.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

So down from 100 points of failure to 15.
Next upgrade will be down to a single point of failure.

Too bad there most likely isn't any load-sharing/balancing in there. If there was, losing 1/15th of available capacity should have almost no impact on service.

With the much more efficient "packing" by aggregating everything on 10G links instead of individual 1Gbps virtual circuits, TSI would likely be able to get away with somewhat fewer 10G links than what their projected total of 1G links would dictate. They only need to aim for equal or more if most of their 1G links happen to frequently hit their peaks at the same time, which should be very uncommon.