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bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to funny

Re: CNOC speed matching decision due next week

said by funny:

and show that the market is not working right as people are looking to pay less and can't....

The market works or doesn't work based on what people are willing to pay, not what they want to pay.


Rickkins

join:2004-04-05
Mtl, Canada
reply to TSI Marc

Hey Marc.... no pressure or anything... ... but what does mean for higher speeds in the Montreal area....????



dillyhammer
START me up
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join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
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reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by mikee:

Alright well i'm just going to assume I'm in a population dense area. I live a 3 minute walk from CSIS,

Yep, they're pretty dense.

Coffee everywhere. Damn you.



Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged

bdoyledimou

join:2002-08-20
Markham, ON
reply to mlerner

So did i miss the announcement and it was unfavorable? or will take 1 year plus to attain?


bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1

said by bdoyledimou:

So did i miss the announcement and it was unfavorable? or will take 1 year plus to attain?

Marc's post-decision post: »Re: CNOC speed matching decision due next week


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to bdoyledimou

To sumarize:

The Decision here: CRTC: Telecom Decision CRTC 2013-36

Key posts to read by TSI Marc We will go from having 100+ links to 10-15 (10gig) links...

And so far it all looks good for us.
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to Rickkins

said by Rickkins:

Hey Marc.... no pressure or anything... ... but what does mean for higher speeds in the Montreal area....????

This affects Rogers cable on non-aggregated. Not Videotron.

Going by the little smiles here and there in another topic about videotron, it seems something is in the works and might be worth waiting for. Give it a month (+/-)

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to TwiztedZero

So down from 100 points of failure to 15.
Next upgrade will be down to a single point of failure.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to Rickkins

said by Rickkins:

Hey Marc.... no pressure or anything... ... but what does mean for higher speeds in the Montreal area....????

It does not change anything for Videotron since Videotron's TPIA has always been at least regionally aggregated... one POI in Montreal to access ~3M subscribers in that area, same goes for Quebec City, so two POIs to access ~85% of Videotron's footprint rather than Rogers' ~40.

So even before aggregated tariffs, Videotron was pretty much already aggregated anyhow... and before Bell's throttling, UBB, etc., the Videotron-TPIA tariffs were so bad, there was almost no advantage in going with a TPIA rather than Videotron itself, so almost no ISP bothered with it until Bell broke the camel's back.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

So down from 100 points of failure to 15.
Next upgrade will be down to a single point of failure.

Too bad there most likely isn't any load-sharing/balancing in there. If there was, losing 1/15th of available capacity should have almost no impact on service.

With the much more efficient "packing" by aggregating everything on 10G links instead of individual 1Gbps virtual circuits, TSI would likely be able to get away with somewhat fewer 10G links than what their projected total of 1G links would dictate. They only need to aim for equal or more if most of their 1G links happen to frequently hit their peaks at the same time, which should be very uncommon.


Guspaz
Guspaz
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join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to mlerner

Videotron already offers 10 gig ports (getting them to offer it took ages, but they ended up doing it long before Bell), they're basically aggregated already (they interconnect with TSI in Toronto... The only thing standing in the way now is the CBB rates.

Videotron already had one of if not the lowest CBB rates after MTS, but they should still go down substantially with the CBB R&V (or so we hope).
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by Guspaz:

Videotron already had one of if not the lowest CBB rates after MTS, but they should still go down substantially with the CBB R&V (or so we hope).

If the "we hope" decision doesn't materialize then the next stop ought to be the Competition Bureau.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

Videotron already had one of if not the lowest CBB rates after MTS, but they should still go down substantially with the CBB R&V

Videotron is actually the third most expensive. IIRC, Rogers gets first place at 26k$/Gbps, Bell was second at 22k$/Gbps, Videotron comes in third at 19k$/Gbps and I think Cogeco was fourth at 16k$/Gbps.

As for the CBB R&V, I would not expect rates to go lower than 8k$/Gbps... at least not without some of the costs getting shuffled back into the per-sub access fees.


Guspaz
Guspaz
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join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23

Well, cutting costs by almost two thirds (in the case of Bell) on the indy ISP's biggest line item would definitely have a pretty positive effect, even if it's still vastly overinflated.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


NBomb

join:2007-01-23
Etobicoke, ON

When's the CBB decision due, anyway?


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

said by NBomb:

When's the CBB decision due, anyway?

There is no due date or anything..

But a bunch of us have been hearing rumors that it'll be out by end of Feb.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


dillyhammer
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said by resa1983:

said by NBomb:

When's the CBB decision due, anyway?

There is no due date or anything..

But a bunch of us have been hearing rumors that it'll be out by end of Feb.

2013?



Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

As for the CBB R&V, I would not expect rates to go lower than 8k$/Gbps... at least not without some of the costs getting shuffled back into the per-sub access fees.

Last time I checked $8k/Gbps is much cheaper than $26k/$22k/Gbps...

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

With the much more efficient "packing" by aggregating everything on 10G links instead of individual 1Gbps virtual circuits, TSI would likely be able to get away with somewhat fewer 10G links than what their projected total of 1G links would dictate. They only need to aim for equal or more if most of their 1G links happen to frequently hit their peaks at the same time, which should be very uncommon.

There is no point in reducing the amount of capacity between TSI and Rogers when they'll end up just going up to that level of required capacity very quickly anyway, especially with the increased coverage and the new speed tiers.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

said by NBomb:

When's the CBB decision due, anyway?

There is no due date or anything..

But a bunch of us have been hearing rumors that it'll be out by end of Feb.

Supposed to be in 2012-2013 for what appears to be the 703 file
»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/backgrnd/plan2012.htm

And a review of costing for wholesale in 2013-2014 (file #??).

Ref:
»Re: The end of ####?

So I think the best we came up with, with those in the "know" and what we regular pee-ons know, was 703 being looked at in Nov-Dec-Jan with some sort of ruling coming out in Jan-Feb.

With Bell giving unlimited all of a sudden after calling their customers thieves (more or less), seems to me they may have advanced knowledge that this is completed, the decision rendered, and now just waiting for it to be released.

Best guess.


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to 34764170

said by 34764170:

said by InvalidError:

With the much more efficient "packing" by aggregating everything on 10G links instead of individual 1Gbps virtual circuits, TSI would likely be able to get away with somewhat fewer 10G links than what their projected total of 1G links would dictate. They only need to aim for equal or more if most of their 1G links happen to frequently hit their peaks at the same time, which should be very uncommon.

There is no point in reducing the amount of capacity between TSI and Rogers when they'll end up just going up to that level of required capacity very quickly anyway, especially with the increased coverage and the new speed tiers.

I'm inclined to concurr on this assessment.
--
----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to 34764170

said by 34764170:

Last time I checked $8k/Gbps is much cheaper than $26k/$22k/Gbps...

Cheaper, yes. But still nowhere near as cheap as the 1-2k$/Gbps many people here are hoping for and 8k$/Gbps is near the optimistic end of my guess range.


Dones

join:2008-02-14
Toronto, ON

said by InvalidError:

said by 34764170:

Last time I checked $8k/Gbps is much cheaper than $26k/$22k/Gbps...

Cheaper, yes. But still nowhere near as cheap as the 1-2k$/Gbps many people here are hoping for and 8k$/Gbps is near the optimistic end of my guess range.

Holy shit! Makes you wonder how Google is offering 1Gb for $70. That Google fibre sounds sexy.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by Dones:

Holy shit! Makes you wonder how Google is offering 1Gb for $70. That Google fibre sounds sexy.

Google Fiber is 1Gbps only between the subscriber and Google's edge equipment. Beyond that, speeds vary wildly and even more so if you go beyond Google's own network.

Not quite the same provisioning burden as aggregated or dedicated links where ISPs and clients usually expect to be able to push links to full speed at any time of day for however long they need.

High speeds are much cheaper to offer when they come with minimal (if any) performance guarantees.


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
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reply to Dones

while this isn't really the thread for it, Google is selling it at a loss and generally all their products at a loss too as long as it enables them to collect data off you and sell it or feed you ads.

they also are very interested in disrupting current broadband markets in the US and likely just using it as a scare tactic.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23

Google is on the record as saying it's not being sold at a loss.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

Unless they reveal all the costs associated with rolling out fiber on poles, running the into homes, installing in home, building their edge ip network, etc., it is simply just their word saying its not being sold at a loss.

And like other companies, they just reveal total profits for the company in financial reports, so those don't indicate much. Google's primary business is mining data, selling that data to advertisers and selling space to advertisers.

Look no further then Google's Android OS, they developed it and then just give it away to OEMs.

Comparing Google's fibre project in Kansas city to convential ISPs is not really is like comparing apples to oranges. I predict the Google's fibre rolling out to the masses to fizzle like Verizon's FIOS did when it first arrived in the States many, many years ago.
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jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
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reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

Google is on the record as saying it's not being sold at a loss.

again it's benefitting them to say it's not being sold at a loss. assuming it is then it's likely being sold at an even cost which isn't proving anything.

the big cost from fiber to the home is the installation/last mile infrastructure (not the actual bandwidth) and the install fee cannot cover that. it could be that city of KC or some other org is funding it and Google isn't counting that as their 'cost'.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to mlerner

The city owns all the right of ways, and has allowed Google access to all the poles and such for free.

They're essentially giving Google Carte Blanche.

Those who want google fiber installed pay for it. for the free 5mbps, you pay $300 to install. If you go on a monthly plan, they waive the install fee.

They're also getting money from the neighbourhood 'rallies' (people vote on which neighbourhood gets it next). To sign up to vote costs $10.
--
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InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to jmck

said by jmck:

again it's benefitting them to say it's not being sold at a loss. assuming it is then it's likely being sold at an even cost which isn't proving anything.

At $70/month with no speed guarantees, I think it is pretty safe to conclude that they will eventually be making a fair profit on it. Similar service in Hong Kong costs as little as $35/month and in Japan you can have it for ~$50/month in some areas.

As far as KC "funding" Google Fiber, the only conditions Google had were free access to easements and the city generally staying out of Google's way. Local incumbents did try to have GF shut down by saying free easement was an unfair advantage.