 garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI |
to DKS
Re: EXTREME freezing temperatures - What to worry about?said by DKS:said by Jon5:And why is running a propane grill inside dangerous? Two words. Carbon monoxide. I hear what you're saying and I think that burning propane, itself, indoors and unvented isn't necessarily a hazard. Plenty of kitchen ranges and ovens run on propane without incident even in the winter with the house as closed up as it can be. Now, in the case of a grill, it may be different. Many grills have the flames impinge on rocks or metal plates/bars that then radiate heat to sear the food and cause drippings to smoke. Having the flames interact with those rocks/plates MAY interfere with complete combustion (I don't know) but it does seem possible. In any case, I'd definitely suggest a working CO detector in the room if running any unvented combustion (even a natural gas range or oven). The cost of the detector and its peace of mind seem, to me, to be worthwhile. |
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Bob4Account deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey |
Bob4
Member
2013-Jan-26 6:30 am
It's probably less of a hazard than cars with remote start (very popular in Canada) being parked in attached garages. |
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 DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON |
said by Bob4:It's probably less of a hazard than cars with remote start (very popular in Canada) being parked in attached garages.
Both are hazards. I don't see a lot of remote starter systems here. Perhaps in Quebec. |
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to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:I hear what you're saying and I think that burning propane, itself, indoors and unvented isn't necessarily a hazard. Plenty of kitchen ranges and ovens run on propane without incident even in the winter with the house as closed up as it can be.
Now, in the case of a grill, it may be different. Many grills have the flames impinge on rocks or metal plates/bars that then radiate heat to sear the food and cause drippings to smoke. Having the flames interact with those rocks/plates MAY interfere with complete combustion (I don't know) but it does seem possible.
In any case, I'd definitely suggest a working CO detector in the room if running any unvented combustion (even a natural gas range or oven). The cost of the detector and its peace of mind seem, to me, to be worthwhile. We acquired a ventless propane heater (Vermont Castings) for one of the rooms in our house, and I was skeptical that anything with an open flame was safe to use. The short version of the story is that modern ventless heaters are designed for extremely efficient combustion with minimal noxious by-products, but they are NEVER to be used as primary heating systems and ALWAYS need to have plenty of combustion air (oxygen) available to them, i.e there are cubic foot requirements for any such heater less-than-which one mustn't install-to. Ours is in a 20x30 vaulted ceiling "great room" with lotsa windows (which of course leak) thus it's safe. We have birds that are healthy after 10 years so I can say that with confidence. Cooking: OK. Primary Heating: Not OK. Small space or bedroom: NOT OKAY! Not designed as a home heating device: NOT OK! Pay attention, or risk one day waking-up dead!  |
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 hm
@videotron.ca |
hm
Anon
2013-Jan-26 11:26 am
said by tomupnorth:Cooking: OK. Primary Heating: Not OK. Small space or bedroom: NOT OKAY! Not designed as a home heating device: NOT OK! Pay attention, or risk one day waking-up dead!
And once again, just wish to point out. Heaters in trailers and mobile homes are propane all over Vermont and NY. Mine had one. But I closed up the summer place in November, didn't have this all winter long. But I have seen many with this over there all winter long. Just saying. No one died. I also seem to recall visiting people there mid-Feb and there was a problem at times with propane with it was very very cold. Don't recall what it was now. Too long ago. Anyhow you can google propane heating and propane anything in the States. Hey, who hijacked this topic and switch it to a topic about propane? It's just odd to see over here unless you are in a summer only trailer park off a lake. In the States it's all over the place in residential homes. Kinda like Kerosene heaters. Never saw one here, but when I was in the states, lots of people had one running in their living rooms. Differences... |
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 LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA |
to garys_2k
There's a reason building code specifies exhaust vents for fuel burning stoves (I.e. your range hood) must be vented to the outside, and have a source of make-up air; most commonly tied to the HRV these days..
Ventless heaters, ranges, grills, etc all produce carbon monoxide - more efficient and properly adjusted ones produce less, but they all produce some, as a product of combustion... Ventless heaters and ventless gas fireplace logs are against code in Canada for a reason. Using a BBQ grill indoors is just stupid.
As for remote car starters, also by code, the garage must be sealed from the occupied portion of the house, and the seal must be gas proof, including caulking around all penetrations; the door must have a gasket, and an automatic closer... It's also code that there is no air exchange (heat vents or returns) within the garage space.
It's foolish to run your car in the garage for extended lentghs of time with the garage door closed, but the law has taken steps to protect people from themselves... |
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said by LazMan: It's foolish to run your car in the garage for extended lentghs of time with the garage door closed, but the law has taken steps to protect people from themselves...
sadly in my experience here in the montreal area there is a hell of a lot of houses in the montreal area built pre 1970 with forced air heat that have a return AND heat duct in the garage. My usual recomendation for these is seal them and install a pair of electric baseboards set to +/- 12c |
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Bob4Account deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey |
to LazMan
said by LazMan:As for remote car starters, also by code, the garage must be sealed from the occupied portion of the house, and the seal must be gas proof, including caulking around all penetrations; the door must have a gasket, and an automatic closer... In-law's place in Montreal has an attached garage. The door to the garage does not have an automatic closer. The living spaces above (8 units, I think) do not have carbon monoxide detectors. I don't think people are stupid enough to run a car in a closed garage, but the cars can be started accidentally. Suppose a 3 year-old starts playing with the buttons on a keyfob. I never heard of a requirement that residential gas ranges/ovens have an exhaust vent. |
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to hm
said by hm :And once again, just wish to point out. Heaters in trailers and mobile homes are propane all over Vermont and NY. Mine had one. But I closed up the summer place in November, didn't have this all winter long. But I have seen many with this over there all winter long. Just saying. No one died. Well, I was talking about VENTLESS heaters. Properly vented propane heaters/furnaces are no problem at all. I wish I'd had such installed myself for whole-house heating, instead of relying on (noisy) heat pumps. |
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garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI |
to LazMan
said by LazMan:There's a reason building code specifies exhaust vents for fuel burning stoves (I.e. your range hood) must be vented to the outside, and have a source of make-up air; most commonly tied to the HRV these days..
I guess propane and natural gas ovens are exceptions, but again, I'd use a CO detector at least for peace of mind. |
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