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Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
reply to peterboro

Re: Are police handing out traffic tickets to meet quotas?

Do you think DSL Reports will really exist in 2913

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
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join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by Last Parade:

Do you think DSL Reports will really exist in 2913

Yes and you'll still be here posting.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to dirtyjeffer
TPS Peformance Objectives :

Priority: Ensuring Pedestrian and Traffic Safety (One goal removed; remaining
goal revised)
The traffic on Toronto’s roadways affects almost everyone within the City and was a consistent theme at
public meetings held early in 2008. It was also identified in the Service’s community survey as one of the
most serious problems affecting neighbourhoods. The safety of pedestrians, cyclists, and drivers and the
safe and efficient flow of traffic are, therefore, of significant concern to the Toronto Police Service. Mobilizing
local communities to respond to local traffic problems will assist in sustaining successful efforts and
improving neighbourhood roadway safety.
Goal:
Increase traffic enforcement and education to better protect the safety of pedestrians, cyclists,
and drivers.

»www.torontopolice.on.ca/publicat ··· ties.pdf
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to peterboro
We have four provincial offenses courts in Niagara. They are paid for by the region, and I suspect that revenue from fines also goes to the region, but I have no idea if the region then finds a way to share it with the lower-tier municipality where the actual offense was committed.


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
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join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to peterboro
What really burns me is when I'm in Mississauga and I get a ticket, half the time I have to go to Brampton to fight it, half the time I can fight it in Mississauga. It all depends on which division the cop works for. I got a ticket on Derry Rd near the airport in the summer. I kept trying to find the time to go to the courthouse to speak to the crown (the ticket was for a licence plate obstruction) but life got in the way. If I could have taken that ticket to the courthouse in Mississauga I would have been able to find the time.

Anyway, I was convicted and forgot about the ticket. I wasn't sent a notice of conviction. 3 weeks later my licence got suspended.
--
Tom


agtle

@teksavvy.com
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

You think wrong. The money goes to the municipality in its entirety, and the municipalities are the ones who run and pay for the provincial offenses courts that these tickets fall under.

Just old is all. Did a bit more reading, and found that this had changed in the 90s, link; when responsibility for the provincial offense courts was downloaded to the municipalities. Didn't realize it was that long ago, time moves so much faster the older I get.


Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
I believe the fines still went to the municipalities before then, it's just that the courts were run by the province.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to elwoodblues
what i would like to see is how much revenue tickets bring in vs how much it actually costs to generate said revenue...while people may often talk about $$$, i'll bet the actual money (when factoring in all the costs associated with it) aren't really that great...for example, sure, they may pull in $40 million in tickets, but what if they spend $50 million to get it?


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
That's an invalid comparison. You're paying that $50 million no matter what and that number doesn't change unless you start laying off officers directly which is typically political suicide and something never done.

Knowing that you're going to be paying these costs regardless, you may as well have them generating some sort of revenue. Even if $40 million only offsets a portion of their costs, it's better than nothing and being out that $50 million in its entirety.

peterboro
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join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:

what i would like to see is how much revenue tickets bring in vs how much it actually costs to generate said revenue...

Locally we have the courthouse as a static charge as the criminal and civil divisions are in the same place. We have a provincial prosecutor that does all HTA and municipal bylaw (parking/zoning) and some other offences. There are 4 support staff that I can tell that include court clerks and staff to collect fines at the office. So I would say a half million a year in costs. As to what we bring in in fines is anyones guess. You have all the HTA (lots of Toronto toadies on the weekends in the summer), parking tickets, smoking tickets, bylaw infractions and probably 20 other venues that are prosecuted under the POA so I would suspect several million.


quotaTax

@ody.ca
reply to peterboro
would rather have cops meet quotas than property tax etc rise out of control


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by quotaTax :

would rather have cops meet quotas than property tax etc rise out of control

If you were getting pulled over for going 1-2mph over the speed limit or ticketed for obstructing traffic for driving under the limit - all of this kind of shit happened in NYS a few years back before the state stepped in - you'd be singing a different tune.

peterboro
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join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to quotaTax
said by quotaTax :

would rather have cops meet quotas than property tax etc rise out of control

After a few tickets you are often into the Facility and your rates will be 4X your property taxes.


urbanriot
Premium
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Canada
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Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

Are police handing out traffic tickets to meet quotas?

Around here they're not referred to as quotas but its relayed to the officers when they need to 'crack down' in certain areas or engage in 'campaigns', which might be an alternative way to word, "bring in more money!"

Regionals do the same but more in the sense of traffic stops in around the corner off ramp "oh my god there's cops on the street and I don't have time to put on my seatbelt or put down my phone" ma'am pull over kind of way. It really gets the out of towners that don't know where all the traps are.

We still have plenty of OPP officers that will pull over and ask a woman who's broken down on the side of the highway if she's okay, but we also have plenty that don't. I do feel that we've replaced proper observant policing with placating uptight citizens and increasing coffers.


FiReSTaRT
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join:2010-02-26
Canada
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·Velcom
reply to peterboro
In Toronto, we don't have quotas any more. We have "performance expectations" Nobody enforces HTA S.128 in school zones during school hours, but at 2am on a Sunday morning, you can bet your sweet behind there will be speed traps along major arterials.

That's why I maintain my clean driving record by fighting every ticket I get. Pleading down to a lesser offense doesn't reduce the increase in my insurance rates, so whether I pay a ticket for 1km/h over or for 40km/h over, my insurance company will rape me the same over the next 3 years.

Myth: Pleading to a no demerit offense will reduce your insurance rate increase
Reality: Bring lots of Vaseline as you're just saving a few bucks on the ticket amount. 1km/h over, 40km/h over, running a red, not wearing a seat belt, unsafe lane change, they all result in the same increase over the next 3 years. The only exceptions are not stopping for school bus, careless driving, street racing ("stunt driving") and speeding in the 45+km/h over range (some insurers treat everything 49km/h over and less as a "minor" offense).
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw

peterboro
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Peterborough, ON

1 edit
said by FiReSTaRT:

That's why I maintain my clean driving record by fighting every ticket I get. Pleading down to a lesser offense doesn't reduce the increase in my insurance rates, so whether I pay a ticket for 1km/h over or for 40km/h over, my insurance company will rape me the same over the next 3 years.

Same here yet every time I go to court there is a line up of people trying to plead down enough to negate a points hit. Unless you have racked up significant points they are all but irrelevant. But let them plead down. As long as they plead guilty then the Crown is more likely to let our types walk if we demand a trial for even the smallest infraction.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
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join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

That's an invalid comparison. You're paying that $50 million no matter what and that number doesn't change unless you start laying off officers directly which is typically political suicide and something never done.

Knowing that you're going to be paying these costs regardless, you may as well have them generating some sort of revenue. Even if $40 million only offsets a portion of their costs, it's better than nothing and being out that $50 million in its entirety.

my point is, if that $50 million investment in police was used to investigate crimes, gangs, murders, etc, would that actually prove to help "lower crime" and other more serious things...instead, police get tied up issuing tickets and going to court when people fight them.

what i am saying, is essentially that i agree with you guys...i think having a $100k/year officer wasting time with menial traffic infractions is a waste of time...blowing through red lights, excessive speeding, drunk driving, etc...sure, i get it...but when i watched that show, the amount of ridiculous ticketing was mind blowing...especially when in a couple of cases, the city should change the signs and/or change the road infrastructure to accommodate their intentions.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


FiReSTaRT
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join:2010-02-26
Canada
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·Velcom
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

Same here yet every time I go to court there is a line up of people trying to plead down enough to negate a points hit. Unless you have racked up significant points they are all but irrelevant. But let them plead down. As long as they plead guilty then the Crown is more likely to let our types walk if we demand a trial for even the smallest infraction.

Exactly.. I drive with a fair bit of contempt for our speeding limits, get ticketed once a year and if I paid each and every one of my tickets, I'd still never have more than 6 at any point in time. 9 is the magic number that gets you called in for an interview.

But if I paid each and every one of my tickets, I'd have 2-3 "convictions" on my insurance record, meaning significantly higher insurance rates. That's why I fight'em all.. Plus, that's how you keep the court system clogged up
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw

peterboro
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join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by FiReSTaRT:

Exactly.. I drive with a fair bit of contempt for our speeding limits, get ticketed once a year and if I paid each and every one of my tickets, I'd still never have more than 6 at any point in time. 9 is the magic number that gets you called in for an interview.

But if I paid each and every one of my tickets, I'd have 2-3 "convictions" on my insurance record, meaning significantly higher insurance rates. That's why I fight'em all.. Plus, that's how you keep the court system clogged up

Careful you are walking a fine line and are precariously close to being labelled a "douche bag" by the law and order brigade for having the unmitigated gall to plead not guilty. You should line up with the sheeple and pay your ticket/tax like a good little pleb.


dirtyjeffer
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London, ON
i don't think anyone would give someone a hard time for pleading not guilty, if in fact, they aren't guilty.

peterboro
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join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
and so it starts, now tell us your tale once again for those not familiar with your own case of pleading not guilty.


ZZZZZZZ
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join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
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Reviews:
·Vonage
reply to peterboro
I don't know about down East but here,you can set your watch on when the cops are out giving tickets,and in full force.

6 or 7 cars and occifers at the end of the month and around the 15th...............it's a standing joke here.
--
Sarcasm is the body’s natural defense against stupidity.


koira
Keep Fighting Michael
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join:2004-02-16
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·Start Communicat..
reply to peterboro
They may not have quotas but they take advantage of easy fishing holes and honey pots. You see them in the same places at bottom of a hill, exit of a blind corner, behind an abutment, in the tall weeds of a reduced speed zone. None of these places are any danger in good driving conditions but cops use them to tag easy marks. Easy work just write up a book full of 100 in a 70 on a clear day then go for coffee and donuts.


dirtyjeffer
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London, ON
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

and so it starts, now tell us your tale once again for those not familiar with your own case of pleading not guilty.

your comment makes no sense...on the one time i plead not guilty, i wasn't guilty of what i was being charged of, hence the reason i fought it (and won).

peterboro
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Peterborough, ON
said by dirtyjeffer:

said by peterboro:

and so it starts, now tell us your tale once again for those not familiar with your own case of pleading not guilty.

your comment makes no sense...on the one time i plead not guilty, i wasn't guilty of what i was being charged of, hence the reason i fought it (and won).

And hence as your pursuit was of the trail blazed only by the truly righteous everyone else who pleads not guilty in situations not commensurate with yours will be labelled accordingly.


FiReSTaRT
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join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

Careful you are walking a fine line and are precariously close to being labelled a "douche bag" by the law and order brigade for having the unmitigated gall to plead not guilty. You should line up with the sheeple and pay your ticket/tax like a good little pleb.

I'll gladly do it at current rates of enforcement and taxing the day the insurance industry loses all access to my driving record
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


dirtyjeffer
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London, ON
reply to peterboro
i'm not sure what you are getting at...if you aren't guilty, plead not guilty.

peterboro
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Peterborough, ON
You know what I'm getting at, guilty or not we aren't going to pay a de facto tax and screw our insurance.


dirtyjeffer
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London, ON
must...not...take...bait.

peterboro
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Peterborough, ON
one...must...stand ...by... one's...convictions