Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to Vamp
Re: [Northeast] High pings / bad routing... said by kes601:I would guess verizon.net doesn't accept pings / traces.....
Latency is a little high but I am able to ping verizon.net:
 |
|
| reply to Vamp
The past couple days haven't been as bad. There is still an issue with their network as I am getting high latency to some local servers, slowdowns all starting mid day until 11PM/12AM. It's been doing this since Friday, Verizon is completely oblivious it seems. Posting in the Direct support section for Verizon is a waste, no one has replied there yet and it's been three days since I posted with several bumps to the thread.
I am just trying to wait it out, I dread calling Verizon only to speak with oblivious script monkeys. Yes I've unplugged my router, rebooted my router, reset it to factory defaults, rebooted the ont, yes it is a problem with the Verizon network, no it is not my problem and no I do not need a tech to come out.
--
My Website: »www.xtemu.com
My Speedtest: »www.speedtest.net/result/1218984197.png
|
|
| reply to Vamp
Has anyone called Verizon yet regarding these issues?
No one is responding in the Verizon direct section. |
|
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to Vamp
Verizon Direct takes at least a week for a response in my experience. I would call but I'm afraid of going through the motions and then instead of escalating to a Tier 2 specialist I will be told to call back or that I will be contacted with no real step in the right direction. |
|
|
|
| reply to Vamp
Heh, I almost actually thought they fixed the issue. My ping to servers was low and then when I started playing my game my ping goes right back up again. :/ |
|
| reply to Xtreme2damax
said by Xtreme2damax:Has anyone called Verizon yet regarding these issues?
No one is responding in the Verizon direct section.
I called last week when this exact thing started happening to me. I'm in Maryland and the gaming servers I play on are in NY. Some of the them are fine, e.g. 63.34.175.237 gets me a normal ~30 ping. However for two weeks now, 63.34.175.210 gives me around 140. The culprit in this case is tinet-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.72.122] where it jumps up.
I called Verizon and after getting the person on the phone to go back and talk their "network team" numerous times, their final answer was, "it's just one router, so there's nothing we can do about it."
Funny thing is, I started playing on a new server (also in NY) since my ping went to garbage on the old server, and wouldn't you know it, last night my ping jumped to 120 and has been stuck there since. |
|
| reply to Vamp
That's such bull. So they won't do anything about it just because "It's only one router".. Guess anything so greedy corporations won't have to spend a buck. Fios is supposed to be fast and lower latency than cable, dsl etc.. this is ridiculous for a fiber optic network. This seems like a widespread (for the Northeast) issue that likely affects more than those that already posted here. Such ignorance on their part, they need to fix it before their customers decide to switch to another isp. I had the occasional spike on Time Warner but nothing like this. I had Time Warner for around nine months, my first month with Fios and I'm having problems with their service.
I have an online friend that lives in Romania who had low ping to a server in the USA, they have faster speed at a fraction of the cost of Fios. Sad is the state of isp's in the USA and we are supposed to be a first world country.
--
My Website: »www.xtemu.com
My Speedtest: »www.speedtest.net/result/1218984197.png
|
|
jk111
join:2013-01-27
Auburn, NY | This is honestly getting ridiculous. It's happening in NY, NJ, CA, PA, verizon needs to admit there is a problem and solve it. But why would they? They don't give a crap about customers.
Like you, I had Time Warner for 6-7 years and switched to Fios back in August. No problems until now, but if these problems continue, we'll see about the future with my Fios service. |
|
guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 | reply to Vamp
tinet-gw.customer.alter.net is a peering point, indicating its tinet that is overloaded, not Verizon, as router can only push the traffic its network connection allows |
|
| So guppy is this one of those things where tinet (or whoever runs the switch or network on other side) is just not living up to their end of the peering agreement? If so, shouldn't Verizon be concerned if they receive enough complaints? I suppose it depends on how the agreement was made, but I would imagine all parties involved would want to have a say if the others are "slacking off."
Interesting stuff, this internet. |
|
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to Vamp
As I posted earlier in this thread, Verizon's own internal network is s#itting the bed across multiple states, this is not just a one-off, no-name game-hosting company that has a saturated peering agreement with Verizon:
I will say that the user Vamp is the exception, certainly NOT the rule with the conditions we're experiencing the last few weeks-months. |
|
guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to Vamp
I would say the folks in western NY are all being routed thru NYC, which being the one of the busiest data hub in the country its not surprising that pings are not great. That doesn't mean much as routers are programed to only respond and hence forward IMCP pings as the lowest priority traffic.
Ping is NOT a reliable metric for finding latency issues for network paths, people see ping number and think they have proof of an issue, and sometimes in gross mis-managed networks it can show issues, but most the time as in ALL of your three tracert, nothing shows as an issue.
Ping and Speed tests are not a smoking gun, the first due to router priorities the second, due to server load as all unknown. You would need the ability to do end to end large data-transfers to get hard statistics of what the network delays are.
Most of what people think is there network slow down or gaming lag is due to the content server, as the internet grows, content company's will do all they can to maximize there income, buying more bandwidth for peak usage isn't a good return on investment
All the posters about Verizon this, Verizon that network issues are for the most part misdirected in there ire.
Lastly, there is NO larger backbone than Verizons, they are about 30% of the US internet backbone, the amount of traffic that FIOS adds is noise compared to the amount of data flowing on alternet ( the original uunet , which was MCI, now Verzon business ) |
|
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| said by guppy_fish:I would say the folks in western NY are all being routed thru NYC, which being the one of the busiest data hub in the country its not surprising that pings are not great. That doesn't mean much as routers are programed to only respond and hence forward IMCP pings as the lowest priority traffic.
Ping is NOT a reliable metric for finding latency issues for network paths, people see ping number and think they have proof of an issue, and sometimes in gross mis-managed networks it can show issues, but most the time as in ALL of your three tracert, nothing shows as an issue.
Ping and Speed tests are not a smoking gun, the first due to router priorities the second, due to server load as all unknown. You would need the ability to do end to end large data-transfers to get hard statistics of what the network delays are. During the time I took those trace routes, I was only having successful webpage loads 50-70% of the time(not just limited to those 3 sites!). For a large ISP with the advanced network infrastructure it has that is a sad state of affairs. People experiencing up to 10ms latency to their local VZ gateway router(2nd hop! /wtf) and timeouts on the 3rd and 4th hop(note: no traffic has left Verizon's network at that point, please don't blame third-party internet entities!) is clear that Verizon can't shrug and throw their hands up and say "not my problem" when it can be shown reliably from numerous sources.
said by guppy_fish:Most of what people think is there network slow down or gaming lag is due to the content server, as the internet grows, content company's will do all they can to maximize there income, buying more bandwidth for peak usage isn't a good return on investment
All the posters about Verizon this, Verizon that network issues are for the most part misdirected in there ire.
Lastly, there is NO larger backbone than Verizons, they are about 30% of the US internet backbone, the amount of traffic that FIOS adds is noise compared to the amount of data flowing on alternet ( the original uunet , which was MCI, now Verzon business )
And I'm sure hardware never, ever fails or functions abnormally. I experience major slowdowns or timeouts to various content from all types of sources on the web. Apparently I didn't get the memo where the whole internet is now stored on 1 content server with 1 pipe to Verizon...
I find it hard to believe that internet content has grown so much in the last month or two that such a stark contrast in FIOS performance has developed from years before. |
|
mikevPremium
join:2002-05-04
Northern VA Reviews:
 ·Callcentric
| reply to serge87
said by serge87:As I posted earlier in this thread, Verizon's own internal network is s#itting the bed across multiple states, this is not just a one-off, no-name game-hosting company that has a saturated peering agreement with Verizon I'm sorta surprised that you go from Syracuse, NY down to Culpeper, VA (CLPPVA), then back up to NYC on alter.net... Culpeper is my first hop as well, being west of the DC area, but it doesn't seem quite right that yours is too.
It definitely looks like Verizon's got something messed up somewhere as far as routing goes... whether it's their own internal network or their links to the outside world, something definitely isn't right. |
|
| Yeah, I'm taking the same route as well from CNY. That explains why ping is as high as it is to NY servers. Everything was alright prior to last Thursday or Friday except my ping from Auburn to Syracuse was higher than it should have been. Routing with isp's is strange to say the least, really no reason why I should be routed to VA when connecting to a server here in NY. |
|
| reply to Vamp
First picture is my traceroute to google.com. Second picture is my traceroute to the game server here in NY that I usually play on. Besides higher pings, slow browsing and timeouts I have lag issues when playing my game online even when my ping is low.
Edit: My route to the NY game server is being routed through VA and back up to NY, similar to the above users route when performing a tracert to google.com. |
|
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to mikev
said by Xtreme2damax:Besides higher pings, slow browsing and timeouts I have lag issues when playing my game online even when my ping is low.
Those are packet loss issues not usually lag. Trace routes take just 3 samples, if you ran a continuous test on that IP with a large sample size you'll probably see dropped packets.
said by mikev:I'm sorta surprised that you go from Syracuse, NY down to Culpeper, VA (CLPPVA), then back up to NYC on alter.net... Culpeper is my first hop as well, being west of the DC area, but it doesn't seem quite right that yours is too.
It definitely looks like Verizon's got something messed up somewhere as far as routing goes... whether it's their own internal network or their links to the outside world, something definitely isn't right.
Up is down, down is up in this new bizarro world. When I had really bad timeouts last weekend, even Verizon's own website and mail system was down! How do you explain that? Unless they host it on third-party CDNs? |
|
mloebl
join:2003-01-03
Tyngsboro, MA | reply to Xtreme2damax
I mentioned this in a another similar thread... Not sure what routing was like before Sandy, however I'm up about 25miles outside of Boston, and all of my traffic goes thru NYC, even Boston traffic from what I can tell. What's interesting is before Sandy, on speedtest.net (and others) I pretty consistently hit 85/38 on speed tests regardless of time and date to Boston servers with low pings. Now Boston servers give me poor performance (8 - 40mbs), while NYC servers give me my 85/38 most of the time (also with really low pings.)
Since I noticed all my traceroutes have been going thru NYC, I've stopped downloading stuff from MA mirrors and started using NYC/NJ mirrors as they are much faster now. I wish I had a traceroute before Sandy to see the difference.
-Mike |
|
guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to serge87
said by serge87:During the time I took those trace routes, I was only having successful webpage loads 50-70% of the time(not just limited to those 3 sites!). Latency has nothing to do with failed page loads, if that's your problem, it would have to be some form of packet loss
said by serge87:And I'm sure hardware never, ever fails or functions abnormally. I experience major slowdowns or timeouts to various content from all types of sources on the web.
All teir one ISP's have very complete auto fail-over systems in place, that's the whole point of many of the used routing algorithms which the internet runs on
said by Xtreme2damax:Routing with isp's is strange to say the least, really no reason why I should be routed to VA when connecting to a server here in NY.
This is likely the core issue, but its just as much as where the servers are and on whom's network. Preferred routing comes from the hosts, and here lies a common problem. Host A will broadcast the preferred path ( usually on where they get the lowest cost peering ) and these get into the Verizon routers tables, but that may not be the best path from a Verizon customers perspective. So Verizon has to deal with this and things can get bounced around.
Its a global issue, not a Verizon specific issue and for sure there are times a core router tables get foo-bar'ed , as all the possible providers in the chain from you to the host, they can infect other providers performance to to table updates.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting if something is not working for you that is OK, I'm trying to in a friendly way provide information on how this stuff works, and that our ISP Verizon may have nothing to do with the performance issue but could just be a tier 3 network spewing bad BGP table updates
Summary, the HOST provides BGP updates for the preferred routing, which is to the advantage of the Host, when things aren't at capacity, works great, when peering points get overloaded, thing can get horribly bounced around and cause issues. Yes, a network provider can do things to cause issues, but peak performance problems, which is what is being described here starts at the Host. Hope this helps your understanding of how things work in this maze of inter-tubes
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Gat···Protocol |
|
| reply to Vamp
I wonder how Hurricane Sandy affected Verizon's preferred routes especially through the NYC area. I remember going straight from Syracuse to my gateway router and then on to NYC many months before instead of to a VA route like it is now. |
|
