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dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to peterboro

Re: Are police handing out traffic tickets to meet quotas?

it's why i thought using a service for traffic enforcement may be another option.


peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

said by dirtyjeffer:

it's why i thought using a service for traffic enforcement may be another option.

For the resident expert on, "I have cop relatives" you have a poor understanding of individual officer motivations and how your plan would lead to more problems of quotas.


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to dirtyjeffer

said by dirtyjeffer:

it's why i thought using a service for traffic enforcement may be another option.

Again: It would be illegal to do so and asking security guards to do one of the riskiest parts of policing would end up costing just as much money as those guards demand more money to compensate for the risk and training required.
--
Tom


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to peterboro

said by peterboro:

said by dirtyjeffer:

it's why i thought using a service for traffic enforcement may be another option.

For the resident expert on, "I have cop relatives" you have a poor understanding of individual officer motivations and how your plan would lead to more problems of quotas.

??

that article basically tells how it is...there isn't a quota, but if you never write tickets, it implies you aren't doing anything all day...as well, as police budgets continue to climb, and cities become increasingly unable to afford them, pressure is put on them to generate more revenue.

i don't agree with it, but i understand it.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to TLS2000

said by TLS2000:

Again: It would be illegal to do so and asking security guards to do one of the riskiest parts of policing would end up costing just as much money as those guards demand more money to compensate for the risk and training required.

whatever...i don't care...when your taxes start skyrocketing to pay for increasing police budgets, don't complain...i'm not sure how much money is generated from tickets, but the money has to come from somewhere...either everyone pays (law abiding or not), or you monetarily punish a few who aren't following the rules...whichever sounds most fair to you.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell
Expand your moderator at work

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to dirtyjeffer

Re: Are police handing out traffic tickets to meet quotas?

said by dirtyjeffer:

..., or you monetarily punish a few who aren't following the rules...whichever sounds most fair to you.

Except while technically illegal you punish people for superfluous transgressions of the law that in fact make the roads more dangerous as everyone tries to follow unrealistic archaic laws.

Have you seen what happens when people follow the speed limit exactly or come to an absolute and complete stop everywhere?


agtle

@teksavvy.com
reply to dirtyjeffer

said by dirtyjeffer:

whatever...i don't care...when your taxes start skyrocketing to pay for increasing police budgets, don't complain...i'm not sure how much money is generated from tickets, but the money has to come from somewhere...either everyone pays (law abiding or not), or you monetarily punish a few who aren't following the rules...whichever sounds most fair to you.

I could be completely wrong here, but I thought that in Ontario, the money from traffic tickets all goes to the province, and the municipality who actually has to fund these out-of-control police budgets get no part of it. At least that's the song our council sings every time they approve a police budget that is four, five, six times the increase of any other department.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by agtle :

I could be completely wrong here, but I thought that in Ontario, the money from traffic tickets all goes to the province, and the municipality who actually has to fund these out-of-control police budgets get no part of it.

You think wrong. The money goes to the municipality in its entirety, and the municipalities are the ones who run and pay for the provincial offenses courts that these tickets fall under.

Whether it goes to a lower-tier or the upper-tier municipality in a two-tier setup is something I do not know for sure. I suspect it goes to whatever municipality runs the court that the ticket was issued under.

In New York ticket revenue go to the state, and then the state distributes it to the lower levels of government based on some formula. They used to have a setup like ours, but police forces were issuing so many tickets in as a means of municipal revenue that the state finally had to reign in and put a stop to it.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

2 edits

In Peterborough every HTA, and every provincial offence for that matter which includes all bylaw infractions, within Peterborough County proper is prosecuted in the Simcoe St. court.

The revenue and expenses are paid and distributed on a cost sharing basis between the two areas.

Hence when the charge is read it goes "peterboro on or about the 16th day of January 2013 you have been charged with blatant trolling on DSLR in the City of Peterborough in the County of Peterborough".

edit, typo



Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON

Do you think DSL Reports will really exist in 2913


peterboro
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join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

said by Last Parade:

Do you think DSL Reports will really exist in 2913

Yes and you'll still be here posting.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to dirtyjeffer

TPS Peformance Objectives :

Priority: Ensuring Pedestrian and Traffic Safety (One goal removed; remaining
goal revised)
The traffic on Toronto’s roadways affects almost everyone within the City and was a consistent theme at
public meetings held early in 2008. It was also identified in the Service’s community survey as one of the
most serious problems affecting neighbourhoods. The safety of pedestrians, cyclists, and drivers and the
safe and efficient flow of traffic are, therefore, of significant concern to the Toronto Police Service. Mobilizing
local communities to respond to local traffic problems will assist in sustaining successful efforts and
improving neighbourhood roadway safety.
Goal:
Increase traffic enforcement and education to better protect the safety of pedestrians, cyclists,
and drivers.

»www.torontopolice.on.ca/publicat···ties.pdf
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to peterboro

We have four provincial offenses courts in Niagara. They are paid for by the region, and I suspect that revenue from fines also goes to the region, but I have no idea if the region then finds a way to share it with the lower-tier municipality where the actual offense was committed.



TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
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Mississauga, ON
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reply to peterboro

What really burns me is when I'm in Mississauga and I get a ticket, half the time I have to go to Brampton to fight it, half the time I can fight it in Mississauga. It all depends on which division the cop works for. I got a ticket on Derry Rd near the airport in the summer. I kept trying to find the time to go to the courthouse to speak to the crown (the ticket was for a licence plate obstruction) but life got in the way. If I could have taken that ticket to the courthouse in Mississauga I would have been able to find the time.

Anyway, I was convicted and forgot about the ticket. I wasn't sent a notice of conviction. 3 weeks later my licence got suspended.
--
Tom



agtle

@teksavvy.com
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

You think wrong. The money goes to the municipality in its entirety, and the municipalities are the ones who run and pay for the provincial offenses courts that these tickets fall under.

Just old is all. Did a bit more reading, and found that this had changed in the 90s, link; when responsibility for the provincial offense courts was downloaded to the municipalities. Didn't realize it was that long ago, time moves so much faster the older I get.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

I believe the fines still went to the municipalities before then, it's just that the courts were run by the province.



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to elwoodblues

what i would like to see is how much revenue tickets bring in vs how much it actually costs to generate said revenue...while people may often talk about $$$, i'll bet the actual money (when factoring in all the costs associated with it) aren't really that great...for example, sure, they may pull in $40 million in tickets, but what if they spend $50 million to get it?



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

That's an invalid comparison. You're paying that $50 million no matter what and that number doesn't change unless you start laying off officers directly which is typically political suicide and something never done.

Knowing that you're going to be paying these costs regardless, you may as well have them generating some sort of revenue. Even if $40 million only offsets a portion of their costs, it's better than nothing and being out that $50 million in its entirety.


peterboro
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join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to dirtyjeffer

said by dirtyjeffer:

what i would like to see is how much revenue tickets bring in vs how much it actually costs to generate said revenue...

Locally we have the courthouse as a static charge as the criminal and civil divisions are in the same place. We have a provincial prosecutor that does all HTA and municipal bylaw (parking/zoning) and some other offences. There are 4 support staff that I can tell that include court clerks and staff to collect fines at the office. So I would say a half million a year in costs. As to what we bring in in fines is anyones guess. You have all the HTA (lots of Toronto toadies on the weekends in the summer), parking tickets, smoking tickets, bylaw infractions and probably 20 other venues that are prosecuted under the POA so I would suspect several million.


quotaTax

@ody.ca
reply to peterboro

would rather have cops meet quotas than property tax etc rise out of control



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by quotaTax :

would rather have cops meet quotas than property tax etc rise out of control

If you were getting pulled over for going 1-2mph over the speed limit or ticketed for obstructing traffic for driving under the limit - all of this kind of shit happened in NYS a few years back before the state stepped in - you'd be singing a different tune.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to quotaTax

said by quotaTax :

would rather have cops meet quotas than property tax etc rise out of control

After a few tickets you are often into the Facility and your rates will be 4X your property taxes.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

That's an invalid comparison. You're paying that $50 million no matter what and that number doesn't change unless you start laying off officers directly which is typically political suicide and something never done.

Knowing that you're going to be paying these costs regardless, you may as well have them generating some sort of revenue. Even if $40 million only offsets a portion of their costs, it's better than nothing and being out that $50 million in its entirety.

my point is, if that $50 million investment in police was used to investigate crimes, gangs, murders, etc, would that actually prove to help "lower crime" and other more serious things...instead, police get tied up issuing tickets and going to court when people fight them.

what i am saying, is essentially that i agree with you guys...i think having a $100k/year officer wasting time with menial traffic infractions is a waste of time...blowing through red lights, excessive speeding, drunk driving, etc...sure, i get it...but when i watched that show, the amount of ridiculous ticketing was mind blowing...especially when in a couple of cases, the city should change the signs and/or change the road infrastructure to accommodate their intentions.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell