| reply to sunnyd71
Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier said by sunnyd71:I'd say for the appearance of annual upgrades when it is cheaper to physically do larger upgrades bi-annually. What physical upgrades would those be? They are using the same equipments they started rolling out around three years ago - even the old VDSL2 Stingers and Cellpipe modems could do over 70Mbps when the distance is short enough so upgrades were not the reason for holding back.
From the rumors I remember reading, this seems to be about 1.5 years later than when Bell originally wanted to roll it out.
Well, at least now it is done. |
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| reply to HeadSpinning
said by HeadSpinning:If Bell's CBB rates to wholesale customers are truly based in reality, and not in fantasy, then they shouldn't be able to economically offer unlimited on 50/10 FTTN. Well, some of those wholesale customers are still somehow managing to offer unlimited with those rates for lower price than the incumbents' nearest equivalent.
It is called averaging. The average person who pays for "unlimited" uses nowhere near that much. As long as the price is set right with a broad enough spread of usage patterns, it averages out fine. |
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 GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:20 | reply to sunnyd71
said by sunnyd71:How can you check line stats in Bell's Sagecom? I don't know, I don't have a Sagemcom modem. Those line stats were pulled by TSI.
Looks like Bell says I don't qualify for 50/10, even though my line stats say I should be able to...
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org |
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| reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError:said by HeadSpinning:If Bell's CBB rates to wholesale customers are truly based in reality, and not in fantasy, then they shouldn't be able to economically offer unlimited on 50/10 FTTN. Well, some of those wholesale customers are still somehow managing to offer unlimited with those rates for lower price than the incumbents' nearest equivalent. It is called averaging. The average person who pays for "unlimited" uses nowhere near that much. As long as the price is set right with a broad enough spread of usage patterns, it averages out fine. ISPs have already stated that with the CBB pricing model, even after price increases, they're no longer making any profit on wholesale GAS services. The only reason they've not raised them yet is because they're waiting for an appeal on the CBB rates. Every month the decision is delayed costs them money, but multiple package changes in a short period only angers consumers, which serves the incumbents interests.
By the way, I'm not an idiot. I understand the concept of averaging usage, probably more than you ever will.
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MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net |
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 c2rothPremium
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON
kudos:2
 ·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to brad
WOW, Bell has brought back Unlimited. They just played an ace from their deck, not sure how many of those they have left...
This gives them just a little more carrot to dangle in front of people to ensure they don't cancel, and I don't like that they will use this now to sway people from making a better choice. Especially when you consider that the discount is tied up with a bundle, clear gouging there. |
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| reply to HeadSpinning
said by HeadSpinning:ISPs have already stated that with the CBB pricing model, even after price increases, they're no longer making any profit on wholesale GAS services. Start.ca did not exist on legacy tariff rates. I doubt a new entrant would be able to stay in business long enough to see the CRTCs' decisions to produce favorable tariff changes if they did not set prices to manage a profit on the services they offer now, however thin it may be. |
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Reviews:
 ·Start Communicat..
| said by InvalidError:Start.ca did not exist on legacy tariff rates. I doubt a new entrant would be able to stay in business long enough to see the CRTCs' decisions to produce favorable tariff changes if they did not set prices to manage a profit on the services they offer now, however thin it may be.
Even Start is not making a profit, at least in Cogeco served areas, even with their revised packages:
»Re: New packages are available |
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 HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:17
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to HiVolt
Teksavvy wont be able to support 50meg dsl very well, since they can't even sustain 25meg in peak hours...
The 1gig AGAS model is horribly broken, they need to push for 10gig if they are to remain competitive.
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F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!
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| reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError: Start.ca did not exist on legacy tariff rates. I doubt a new entrant would be able to stay in business long enough to see the CRTCs' decisions to produce favorable tariff changes if they did not set prices to manage a profit on the services they offer now, however thin it may be.
Start is an established ISP that newly entered the cable market. As has been pointed out above, they're not making money on CBB rates.
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MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net |
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| reply to brad
said by brad:So I see that Bell will be rolling out a new FTTN 50 Mbps tier soon. As I had predicted they would do. I wonder how long until TSI has access to said tier.
bell learn what a megabit is yet?
ya know 1 megabit = 125kilobytes/sec? |
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c2rothPremium
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON
kudos:2 Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:Teksavvy wont be able to support 50meg dsl very well, since they can't even sustain 25meg in peak hours...
The 1gig AGAS model is horribly broken, they need to push for 10gig if they are to remain competitive.
Completely agree with you. This is an example where TSI cannot roll out the service because the underlying infrastructure is so limited that they can't compete effectively. It's not fair whatsoever to wholesale that 10Gige is not on the table as 1Gige links get fill soo quickly. We're talking 20 customers to fill up one AGAS link. That only changes to 40 customers when we consider 25Mbps client who are clearly being affected by congestion today, which you know very well yourself from all the tests you've shared with us re. TSI login vs. Bell login. |
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| reply to Guspaz
My Sagemcom modem had a line sync stats of 53,872 kbps down/10 in Ottawa, Carling Ave. and Moodie.
But I live next door to the old Nortel HQ, and my DSLAM is located about 800 feet from me. Also the old Nortel fiber ring passes through this community. |
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| reply to brad
Velcom's 50/10 seems like a very nice deal. Gonna wait to see what Teksavvy offers though.... |
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 TSI MarcPremium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:14 | reply to c2roth
said by c2roth:said by HiVolt:Teksavvy wont be able to support 50meg dsl very well, since they can't even sustain 25meg in peak hours...
The 1gig AGAS model is horribly broken, they need to push for 10gig if they are to remain competitive.
Completely agree with you. This is an example where TSI cannot roll out the service because the underlying infrastructure is so limited that they can't compete effectively. It's not fair whatsoever to wholesale that 10Gige is not on the table as 1Gige links get fill soo quickly. We're talking 20 customers to fill up one AGAS link. That only changes to 40 customers when we consider 25Mbps client who are clearly being affected by congestion today, which you know very well yourself from all the tests you've shared with us re. TSI login vs. Bell login. I totally agree that we need 10gig. So, dont think I'm defending anything... that being said though. A gig link is way better than what you see on cable... even with 8 chans on DOCSIS.. you're talking a max of 200-240mbit per second for all those on that segment... the odds of many others having those higher speeds on that segment are low but I can tell you that I just activated 60 meg here on Cogeco and my hood only has 3 chans bonded... so, I can rarely actually get my full 60.. when you compare a gig link to that... it's actually plenty...
...oh and we will for sure be doing a 50/10 package.
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Marc - CEO/TekSavvy |
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| reply to c2roth
said by c2roth:We're talking 20 customers to fill up one AGAS link. That only changes to 40 customers when we consider 25Mbps client who are clearly being affected by congestion today You can fit many more 50/10 and 25/10 subscribers in a 1GbE link since the likelihood that ALL of those 20-40 subscribers will attempt to use their MAX speed at the SAME time is very low. TSI has ~34Gbps of AHSSPI capacity for ~70k Bell-GAS subscribers and if the average speed is 5Mbps, that works out to 10:1 oversubscription.
As far as congestion is concerned, TSI says NONE of their 1GbE links were anywhere near saturation any of the many times people (myself included) have complained about nightly slowdowns over the past week or two so whatever is happening, it is occurring somewhere else and seems to be affecting @hsiservice.net (IPv6) worse than regular logins for some reason.
That said, I agree that 10Gbps is very much overdue. I doubt there are many carriers anywhere else around the world that handle 20+Gbps clients in 1GbE increments... it is grossly inconvenient and inefficient. Sadly, the tariff structure does not promote efficiency and sound design. |
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TSI MarcPremium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:14 | said by InvalidError:said by c2roth:We're talking 20 customers to fill up one AGAS link. That only changes to 40 customers when we consider 25Mbps client who are clearly being affected by congestion today You can fit many more 50/10 and 25/10 subscribers in a 1GbE link since the likelihood that ALL of those 20-40 subscribers will attempt to use their MAX speed at the SAME time is very low. TSI has ~34Gbps of AHSSPI capacity for ~70k Bell-GAS subscribers and if the average speed is 5Mbps, that works out to 10:1 oversubscription. As far as congestion is concerned, TSI says NONE of their 1GbE links were anywhere near saturation any of the many times people (myself included) have complained about nightly slowdowns over the past week or two so whatever is happening, it is occurring somewhere else and seems to be affecting @hsiservice.net (IPv6) worse than regular logins for some reason. That said, I agree that 10Gbps is very much overdue. I doubt there are many carriers anywhere else around the world that handle 20+Gbps clients in 1GbE increments... it is grossly inconvenient and inefficient. Sadly, the tariff structure does not promote efficiency and sound design. We had a look and the ERX where all the @hsiservice.net logins terminates is well under capacity.
What's likely happening is that some of the AGAS links are better than others due to the maintenance... we keep grooming the links (i.e. actually forcing people off some to try to push them to the other links that were upgraded/big red button) but those 4 links are still way under.
That being said, if all the links were well balanced, we did see last Sunday, a heavy day where some of the links did hit the ceiling. Otherwise we're fine. We're looking to add 5 more links soon also.
It so happens that Gabe is sitting right beside me and I asked him to hit the big red button.. so if you just went offline. sorry about that. we're trying to force more users on those 4 links.
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Marc - CEO/TekSavvy |
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| reply to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:...oh and we will for sure be doing a 50/10 package.
Outstanding..... |
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GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:20 | reply to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:I totally agree that we need 10gig. So, dont think I'm defending anything... Well, the CRTC said that Bell had to provide 10 gig links if an IISP like TekSavvy asked for it, so... what's going on?
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org |
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TSI MarcPremium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:14 | no news... we've asked... many have have asked... ...still nothing *shrug*
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Marc - CEO/TekSavvy |
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| It"ll be your Trustee in Bankruptcy dealing with Bell's request for payments on your 10G circuit setups by the time the CRTC gives the indies a fair shake.
All Bell has to do is delay just a little longer. |
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