Topic 'Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier' in forum 'TekSavvy' - dslreports.com

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:56:20 EDT

TSI Marc posted :

Will there be any relief for those migrating from cable, which if I'm not mistaken is about to become much more expensive...???

I dont think it will be "much more expensive".

Cogeco's network looks to be much more expensive

yeah.. it is... $2556 as opposed to $1400..
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:54:20 EDT

Gruesome posted :

said by TSI Marc:

said by Rickkins:

Will there be any relief for those migrating from cable, which if I'm not mistaken is about to become much more expensive...???

I dont think it will be "much more expensive".

Cogeco's network looks to be much more expensive

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:45:11 EDT

zacron posted : Bell came to install a 50mb line and the best we could do was sync at 46mb... the issue is that the guy was totally unwilling to go and look at webcare/lantern and make his own decisions about line quality... oh well, got credits up the wazoo :P
--
"Recognize, Realize, and Repent"

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:15:01 EDT

da_guy2 posted :

said by mikee:

Awesome, how about dry loop? Will this be waived? Or are you not sure at this moment?

+1

That's the only thing holding me back right now. I've switched to tektalk and quite like it, but the added dry loop cost kinda kills the tektalk deal.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 22:18:56 EDT

mikee posted : Awesome, how about dry loop? Will this be waived? Or are you not sure at this moment?

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 21:43:59 EDT

bbiab posted :

said by TSI Marc:

said by mikee:

When will the new DSL packages be updated Marc? Sometime this week?

I've got many ideas still bouncing around and some things I'm still waiting for confirmation on but I/we are getting closer. I will likely have a really good idea by the end of this week. As soon as I'm pretty happy with everything, I'll share.. We're probably looking at a couple weeks past that to go live with any of it.

Some stuff like activations on FTTN DSL, I already know will be dropped in half. Unlimited between 2 and 8 will now be for all services. Some seem to be using it; thanks to those who do! it all helps keep costs down. I also want to do a two month rolling average for overages.. that's a bit more complicated to roll out so it may take longer to implement but I think it's the most fair way to go. It's what we used to do. I dont like surprises with my invoices any more than you guys do...

for the rest, you'll have to wait :)

It would be better to extend the unlimited window to 8 or 10 hours in lieu of averaging. My feeling was you did away with the averaging when the CBB started and you provided for off peak usage.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 21:35:37 EDT

bbiab posted : -

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 21:33:01 EDT

blueprintz posted : Glad to hear the 50/10 will be coming soon. I will be looking to move to this from cable, with the new rates I think this will be beneficial for everyone.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 21:20:15 EDT

Rickkins posted : Oh, ok.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 20:39:59 EDT

TSI Marc posted :

said by Rickkins:

Will there be any relief for those migrating from cable, which if I'm not mistaken is about to become much more expensive...???

I dont think it will be "much more expensive".
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 20:29:45 EDT

Rickkins posted : Will there be any relief for those migrating from cable, which if I'm not mistaken is about to become much more expensive...???

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 20:14:54 EDT

TSI Marc posted :

said by mikee:

When will the new DSL packages be updated Marc? Sometime this week?

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 19:41:27 EDT

SeanDeMarco1 posted : Absolutely ridiculous is the word for it LOL

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 19:18:14 EDT

mikee posted : When will the new DSL packages be updated Marc? Sometime this week?

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 19:09:37 EDT

InvalidError posted :

said by MaynardKrebs:

It"ll be your Trustee in Bankruptcy dealing with Bell's request for payments on your 10G circuit setups by the time the CRTC gives the indies a fair shake.

10GbE will not make or break TSI but it would make their life much simpler and more efficient.

Question is whether or not the CRTC will buy Bell's excuse that E320s' limited 10GbE port capacity prevents Bell from offering that. This this argument is one of the main reasons behind the CRTC's ~50% reduction on Bell's CBB rates, I bet Bell would file for a new revision if they upgraded their E320s to something beefier for 10GbE wholesale support and the CBB rate would bounce back to ~20k$/Gbps.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 18:39:17 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted : It"ll be your Trustee in Bankruptcy dealing with Bell's request for payments on your 10G circuit setups by the time the CRTC gives the indies a fair shake.

All Bell has to do is delay just a little longer.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 17:33:01 EDT

TSI Marc posted : no news... we've asked... many have have asked... ...still nothing *shrug*
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 17:30:09 EDT

Guspaz posted :

said by TSI Marc:

I totally agree that we need 10gig. So, dont think I'm defending anything...

Well, the CRTC said that Bell had to provide 10 gig links if an IISP like TekSavvy asked for it, so... what's going on?
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 17:13:56 EDT

Rickkins posted :

said by TSI Marc:

...oh and we will for sure be doing a 50/10 package.

Outstanding.....

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 17:11:27 EDT

TSI Marc posted :

said by InvalidError:

said by c2roth:

We're talking 20 customers to fill up one AGAS link. That only changes to 40 customers when we consider 25Mbps client who are clearly being affected by congestion today

You can fit many more 50/10 and 25/10 subscribers in a 1GbE link since the likelihood that ALL of those 20-40 subscribers will attempt to use their MAX speed at the SAME time is very low. TSI has ~34Gbps of AHSSPI capacity for ~70k Bell-GAS subscribers and if the average speed is 5Mbps, that works out to 10:1 oversubscription.

As far as congestion is concerned, TSI says NONE of their 1GbE links were anywhere near saturation any of the many times people (myself included) have complained about nightly slowdowns over the past week or two so whatever is happening, it is occurring somewhere else and seems to be affecting @hsiservice.net (IPv6) worse than regular logins for some reason.

That said, I agree that 10Gbps is very much overdue. I doubt there are many carriers anywhere else around the world that handle 20+Gbps clients in 1GbE increments... it is grossly inconvenient and inefficient. Sadly, the tariff structure does not promote efficiency and sound design.

We had a look and the ERX where all the @hsiservice.net logins terminates is well under capacity.

What's likely happening is that some of the AGAS links are better than others due to the maintenance... we keep grooming the links (i.e. actually forcing people off some to try to push them to the other links that were upgraded/big red button) but those 4 links are still way under.

That being said, if all the links were well balanced, we did see last Sunday, a heavy day where some of the links did hit the ceiling. Otherwise we're fine. We're looking to add 5 more links soon also.

It so happens that Gabe is sitting right beside me and I asked him to hit the big red button.. so if you just went offline. sorry about that. we're trying to force more users on those 4 links.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 16:53:28 EDT

InvalidError posted :

said by c2roth:

We're talking 20 customers to fill up one AGAS link. That only changes to 40 customers when we consider 25Mbps client who are clearly being affected by congestion today

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 16:37:15 EDT

TSI Marc posted :

said by c2roth:

said by HiVolt:

Teksavvy wont be able to support 50meg dsl very well, since they can't even sustain 25meg in peak hours...

The 1gig AGAS model is horribly broken, they need to push for 10gig if they are to remain competitive.

Completely agree with you. This is an example where TSI cannot roll out the service because the underlying infrastructure is so limited that they can't compete effectively. It's not fair whatsoever to wholesale that 10Gige is not on the table as 1Gige links get fill soo quickly. We're talking 20 customers to fill up one AGAS link. That only changes to 40 customers when we consider 25Mbps client who are clearly being affected by congestion today, which you know very well yourself from all the tests you've shared with us re. TSI login vs. Bell login.

I totally agree that we need 10gig. So, dont think I'm defending anything... that being said though. A gig link is way better than what you see on cable... even with 8 chans on DOCSIS.. you're talking a max of 200-240mbit per second for all those on that segment... the odds of many others having those higher speeds on that segment are low but I can tell you that I just activated 60 meg here on Cogeco and my hood only has 3 chans bonded... so, I can rarely actually get my full 60.. when you compare a gig link to that... it's actually plenty...

...oh and we will for sure be doing a 50/10 package.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 16:18:02 EDT

Rickkins posted : Velcom's 50/10 seems like a very nice deal. Gonna wait to see what Teksavvy offers though....

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Fri, 01 Mar 2013 17:33:03 EDT

BTC Kevin posted : My Sagemcom modem had a line sync stats of 53,872 kbps down/10 in Ottawa, Carling Ave. and Moodie.

But I live next door to the old Nortel HQ, and my DSLAM is located about 800 feet from me. Also the old Nortel fiber ring passes through this community.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:18:15 EDT

c2roth posted :

said by HiVolt:

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:21:32 EDT

funny posted :

said by brad:

So I see that Bell will be rolling out a new FTTN 50 Mbps tier soon. As I had predicted they would do. I wonder how long until TSI has access to said tier.

bell learn what a megabit is yet?
ya know 1 megabit = 125kilobytes/sec?

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:21:12 EDT

HeadSpinning posted :

said by InvalidError:

Start.ca did not exist on legacy tariff rates. I doubt a new entrant would be able to stay in business long enough to see the CRTCs' decisions to produce favorable tariff changes if they did not set prices to manage a profit on the services they offer now, however thin it may be.

Start is an established ISP that newly entered the cable market. As has been pointed out above, they're not making money on CBB rates.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:10:54 EDT

HiVolt posted : Teksavvy wont be able to support 50meg dsl very well, since they can't even sustain 25meg in peak hours...

The 1gig AGAS model is horribly broken, they need to push for 10gig if they are to remain competitive.
--
F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:25:19 EDT

silvercat posted :

said by InvalidError:

Even Start is not making a profit, at least in Cogeco served areas, even with their revised packages:
»Re: New packages are available

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:19:33 EDT

InvalidError posted :

said by HeadSpinning:

ISPs have already stated that with the CBB pricing model, even after price increases, they're no longer making any profit on wholesale GAS services.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:19:13 EDT

c2roth posted : WOW, Bell has brought back Unlimited. They just played an ace from their deck, not sure how many of those they have left...

This gives them just a little more carrot to dangle in front of people to ensure they don't cancel, and I don't like that they will use this now to sway people from making a better choice. Especially when you consider that the discount is tied up with a bundle, clear gouging there.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Mon, 28 Jan 2013 07:49:43 EDT

HeadSpinning posted :

said by InvalidError:

said by HeadSpinning:

If Bell's CBB rates to wholesale customers are truly based in reality, and not in fantasy, then they shouldn't be able to economically offer unlimited on 50/10 FTTN.

Well, some of those wholesale customers are still somehow managing to offer unlimited with those rates for lower price than the incumbents' nearest equivalent.

It is called averaging. The average person who pays for "unlimited" uses nowhere near that much. As long as the price is set right with a broad enough spread of usage patterns, it averages out fine.

ISPs have already stated that with the CBB pricing model, even after price increases, they're no longer making any profit on wholesale GAS services. The only reason they've not raised them yet is because they're waiting for an appeal on the CBB rates. Every month the decision is delayed costs them money, but multiple package changes in a short period only angers consumers, which serves the incumbents interests.

By the way, I'm not an idiot. I understand the concept of averaging usage, probably more than you ever will.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 22:01:51 EDT

Guspaz posted :

said by sunnyd71:

How can you check line stats in Bell's Sagecom?

I don't know, I don't have a Sagemcom modem. Those line stats were pulled by TSI.

Looks like Bell says I don't qualify for 50/10, even though my line stats say I should be able to...
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:33:06 EDT

InvalidError posted :

said by HeadSpinning:

If Bell's CBB rates to wholesale customers are truly based in reality, and not in fantasy, then they shouldn't be able to economically offer unlimited on 50/10 FTTN.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:26:31 EDT

InvalidError posted :

said by sunnyd71:

I'd say for the appearance of annual upgrades when it is cheaper to physically do larger upgrades bi-annually.

What physical upgrades would those be? They are using the same equipments they started rolling out around three years ago - even the old VDSL2 Stingers and Cellpipe modems could do over 70Mbps when the distance is short enough so upgrades were not the reason for holding back.

From the rumors I remember reading, this seems to be about 1.5 years later than when Bell originally wanted to roll it out.

Well, at least now it is done.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:59:53 EDT

silvercat posted : Perhaps they already know that the upcoming capacity rate decision will not be favourable to them, so this could be a way of "pre-empting" better packages that could be offered by the independent ISP's.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:39:46 EDT

mlerner posted :

said by HeadSpinning:

said by Dones:

Am I the only one surprised that bell is offering unlimited for $30? I wonder if that applies to ftth.

If Bell's CBB rates to wholesale customers are truly based in reality, and not in fantasy, then they shouldn't be able to economically offer unlimited on 50/10 FTTN.

Well we all know it's not based on actual costs..

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:00:16 EDT

HeadSpinning posted :

said by Dones:

Am I the only one surprised that bell is offering unlimited for $30? I wonder if that applies to ftth.

If Bell's CBB rates to wholesale customers are truly based in reality, and not in fantasy, then they shouldn't be able to economically offer unlimited on 50/10 FTTN.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:50:39 EDT

Dones posted : Am I the only one surprised that bell is offering unlimited for $30? I wonder if that applies to ftth.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:05:49 EDT

c2roth posted : Well this is most interesting. I was wondering what Bell's response would be to Roger's recent re-speeding. They had to do something and this makes perfect sense.

Now TSI getting these new speeds is not likely for some time as it will take paperwork to make it happen I'm sure.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:51:31 EDT

HiVolt posted :

said by kovy:

Yeah... yours still has congestion ? I know Bell recently put a 7330 beside my stinger.

No, no congestion now (except teksavvy's), with bell login is fine...

I've seen 7330's put alongside the stingers in the area, except not mine!!! the horror!
--
F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:09:24 EDT

kovy posted :

said by HiVolt:

said by kovy:

said by HiVolt:

It looks like 50/10 is available for my phone number, on Bell's site... and I'm only served by a Lucent Stinger...

Oh yeah that's going to be the problem, what's going to be the problem is 50/10 with fibeTV.

Oh yeah, i see what you mean....

No FibeTV here, hehe... I wonder how long the stinger will hold up in terms of congestion once people start signing up for the 50meg tiers.

Yeah... yours still has congestion ? I know Bell recently put a 7330 beside my stinger.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:03:00 EDT

HiVolt posted :

said by kovy:

said by HiVolt:

It looks like 50/10 is available for my phone number, on Bell's site... and I'm only served by a Lucent Stinger...

Oh yeah that's going to be the problem, what's going to be the problem is 50/10 with fibeTV.

Oh yeah, i see what you mean....

No FibeTV here, hehe... I wonder how long the stinger will hold up in terms of congestion once people start signing up for the 50meg tiers.
--
F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:59:32 EDT

kovy posted :

said by HiVolt:

It looks like 50/10 is available for my phone number, on Bell's site... and I'm only served by a Lucent Stinger...

Oh yeah that's not going to be the problem, what's going to be the problem is 50/10 with fibeTV.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:29:37 EDT

mlerner posted :

said by ChuckcZar :

Problem is the odds of it being available is about one in 250 or .004 percent. Just like Telus they can only kid themselves and the public for so long before they realize this is basically like dsl and unless you live on the remote dslam it's forgetitsville.

Telus actually has around 60-75% DSLAM footprint, they're laughing all the way to the bank. Bell has no real DSLAM footprint (maybe 40%
) which is ironic given all the copper they own.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:25:48 EDT

HiVolt posted : It looks like 50/10 is available for my phone number, on Bell's site... and I'm only served by a Lucent Stinger...
--
F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 15:28:13 EDT

sunnyd71 posted :

said by Guspaz:

My line stats:

GAS: (removed) - In Service
Last State Change: 12/10 08:37:55 (Uptime: 221940)
Line Profile: V26944-20032_11328-2048_00011
DLM State: DISABLED | Equip. Type: OSLAM
Sync Rate: d26936.0/u11320.0 kbps
RCO: d43.0/u83.0%
Noise Margin: d25.0/u6.0 dB
Power: d14.0/u-22.0 dB
Attenuation: d6.0/u6.0 dB (Approx. Distance: 0.43~0.67km)
Block Count: d52397296.0/u78673736.0

It'll be tight, but my attainable on the downstream is 62,641 Kbps, and I would guess a 50 meg profile would be 53,872 kbps, so I should qualify for 50/10...

How can you check line stats in Bell's Sagecom?

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:46:57 EDT

Guspaz posted : My line stats:

GAS: (removed) - In Service
Last State Change: 12/10 08:37:55 (Uptime: 221940)
Line Profile: V26944-20032_11328-2048_00011
DLM State: DISABLED | Equip. Type: OSLAM
Sync Rate: d26936.0/u11320.0 kbps
RCO: d43.0/u83.0%
Noise Margin: d25.0/u6.0 dB
Power: d14.0/u-22.0 dB
Attenuation: d6.0/u6.0 dB (Approx. Distance: 0.43~0.67km)
Block Count: d52397296.0/u78673736.0

It'll be tight, but my attainable on the downstream is 62,641 Kbps, and I would guess a 50 meg profile would be 53,872 kbps, so I should qualify for 50/10...
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:39:58 EDT

anon posted : Haha my thoughts exactly. Rogers is killing them with their new speeds, this speed update is well overdue. Btw... Bell has unlimited caps now but it comes at an exta fee.

Re: [DSL] Bell FTTN 50 Mbps tier

Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:38:38 EDT

sunnyd71 posted :

said by InvalidError:

said by ChuckcZar :

Problem is the odds of it being available is about one in 250 or .004 percent.

If you can get 25/10, there is a roughly 40% chance that you can get 50/10. (Twice the speed = slightly less than half the reach.)

About half the people who have posted line stats on 25/7 or 25/10 VDSL2 since it got introduced nearly three years ago had attainable max rates over 70Mbps, so Bell had the ability to offer 50Mbps to about half the subscribers wherever 25Mbps is available all along.

The real mystery is why they decided to wait so long.

I'd say for the appearance of annual upgrades when it is cheaper to physically do larger upgrades bi-annually. Looks better to customers and easier to justify price increases I'd speculate.