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AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to londoner1

Re: Bell Unlimited Promotion

Bhell has a nasty way of sneaking in incremental price increases on their sheeple. Hmmm looks like it might be a favorable ruling for the indies on CBB. I would still stay with TSI - at least they're honest and in the open.
--
If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? BHell... A Public Futility.



ekster
Hi there
Premium
join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine

They're not sneaky about it. They're very open with the increases on their billing:

-Recovery fee (for getting sued by you)
-Government "fee" (pocketed by us)
-Recovery fee (for offering you bundle discount)
-Recovery fee (for lowering your prices through retention)
-Business action plan (to pocket more money)



corster
Premium
join:2002-02-23
Gatineau, QC
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

said by InvalidError:

How many people on wholesale DSL will choose Bell for mobile and sign up for FibeTV? The impression I get from being around here for a few years tells me not many.

Sure, that isn't exactly zero but it is close enough in my book.

You can't get FibeTV standalone without internet... at least not officially, as there have been some posts in the past about some being able to get a discounted price without Internet.

You're all forgetting that Bell also offers satellite (ExpressVu) - no internet required for that, and I know many people that subscribe to it without any other Bell services.


TSI Jon
Premium
join:2011-08-24
canada
kudos:10

1 edit
reply to TSI Andre

Click for full size
Here is the comparison graph Andre said we would be posting.
Graph

LastDon

join:2002-08-13

I really don't understand how bell can get away with such advertising..

3 bundle services to get such an advertised rate..

Its like they are forcing their services on you if you are their customer just to get the 10 dollar rate.

so sneaky their advertising.

and all these companies with their bundling bs is so stupid.



TigerLord
Resident pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

...

So hockey is back and THIS is your avatar?


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to TSI Jon

said by TSI Jon:

Here is the comparison graph Andre said we would be posting.

Your calculations are incorrect in that the bundled pricing doesn't take the bundle discount into account, and those are specifically the Ontario pricing, since the price is different (much higher) in Quebec.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21

And is the forced modem rental included?
--
F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TigerLord

said by TigerLord:

said by HiVolt:

...

So hockey is back and THIS is your avatar?

Yep!
--
F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!


shrug

@videotron.ca
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

said by shrug :

Seeing that Bell is offering unlimited again, then I see no reason at all why TSI should not offer a promo of login only accounts for 10$/month.

That would not be viable under the CBB scheme. This used to work back in the day, because it only cost TSI's own transit (which was cheap), and not Bell's transit (made up inflated charges).

I don't think so.
Rates would have to come down for TSI purchased Bell-transit as well, which could be why we are seeing Bell with unlimited, and keep in mind we are waiting for the CRTC release on this.

If Bell can offer unlimited for 10$ and no one else due to the price rigging at the CRTC (and which no one could possibly compete with), then that would constitute an "undue preference" that no one could compete with. Would break a couple of rules I would think.

No?


noemails

@bell.ca
reply to Dufus

trust one thing...bell is not losing on this...they will snag a pile of tek clients...i d say 100 thousand....and teks investment into trying to keep up with the slowdowns is wasted moneyyou should have sold magma did it right selling out to primus....teksavvy is done



mistr

@rogers.com
reply to HiVolt

You happened to forget mandatory modem fee of $8.and you left out the dry loop fee for those that don't have phone line which is another $9 minimum.


jkstraw

join:2012-10-12
Stittsville, ON
reply to TSI Jon

I just got off the phone with Bell - I have 2 existing services (Sat. TV and Phone). Here was the offer:

25/10 pkg + unlimited ($10/mo) + Free modem + no install/setup fee. No contract no other fees.

$50/mo before taxes. How do I turn that down??



mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5

said by jkstraw:

I just got off the phone with Bell - I have 2 existing services (Sat. TV and Phone). Here was the offer:

25/10 pkg + unlimited ($10/mo) + Free modem + no install/setup fee. No contract no other fees.

$50/mo before taxes. How do I turn that down??

Just watch your bills. They can withdraw the offer at any time.


koira
Keep Fighting Michael
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

1 edit
reply to jkstraw

said by jkstraw:

I just got off the phone with Bell - I have 2 existing services (Sat. TV and Phone). Here was the offer:

25/10 pkg + unlimited ($10/mo) + Free modem + no install/setup fee. No contract no other fees.

$50/mo before taxes. How do I turn that down??

well now you have ask what happens when you decide to ditch their overpriced TV for vpn plus netflix/ota/hulu
While you are not under contract you remain commited to the bundle price. if you were really serious to cut cost then review all services. you would stay with tek for internet and do something different about TV and phone

BoogaBooga

join:2004-06-12
Canada
reply to mlerner

Correct me if I am wrong, but these packages are not on a contract. Are they?

If not, you can just leave if they start increasing the price (and with 3 Bell services, I doubt they will let you leave so easily)



neuromancer1

join:2007-01-22
York, ON
reply to londoner1

I cannot believe people will pay almost $40 more month for 10MB upload. Unlimited 15/10 for $83+HST month that's completely insane. I don't care if it's 50MB upload no way in hell, I'll pay that.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23

1 recommendation

said by neuromancer1:

I cannot believe people will pay almost $40 more month for 10MB upload. Unlimited 15/10 for $83+HST month that's completely insane. I don't care if it's 50MB upload no way in hell, I'll pay that.

Except it doesn't cost $83/mth? In Ontario, in a bundle, unlimited is $59.95/mth. Most Bell customers will be in a bundle.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

EHTL

join:2002-10-31
Canada
reply to mlerner

said by mlerner:

said by camelot:

I still don't trust the buggers.

"Subject to change at any time" leaves them an out in 6 months.

It'll likely be there for 6 months and then if any changes occur on your account, they'll be like 'oops you don't have that anymore' and 'we can't get it back for you'.

That was exactly what Bell did to me many years ago when I still had my unlimited DSL internet. The worst part was, I didn't even make any change to my account. Bell just "accidentally" moved my service to another plan but could not switch back because the "system wouldn't allow it." At the end, I became totally Bell free and they lost over $200 per month from me for the landline, internet, cellphone and TV.

funny

join:2010-12-22
reply to mlerner

said by mlerner:

said by camelot:

said by HiVolt:

CNOC should immediately file to strike all CBB rate charges...

Absolutely. This negates all of their CBB rates for wholesale.

Not necessarily, the wholesale costing is recognized as separate than retail pricing. The only thing that is required is that all retail plans have to be offered on wholesale terms which may or may not include unlimited usage addons.

your smoking crack again, wholesale shouldn't in fact be EVER cheaper then anything retail....in any market if it is your in trouble in that business.
now go back and read what your trying to justify that a wholesale price SHOULD be higher then a retail one.
HEHE people aren't stupid

funny

join:2010-12-22
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

said by camelot:

No, but the $10 in a bundle will. What does a "bundle" have to do with the capacity rates they claim are expensive. How does bundling with other services somehow lower capacity rates for them?

Have you actually looked at Bell's prices? Compare Bell unlimited with $10 for that and TekSavvy unlimited (using QC pricing):

TekSavvy: $77.99/mth
Bell: $71.95/mth + $10/mth unlimited = $81.95/mth

TekSavvy is still cheaper. Even with the $4/mth bundle discount, Bell is only matching TSI's price.

i pay with taxes for 5 megabit er 6 er whatever about 60$ with taxes


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3

You're overpaying. Time to move on.


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

1 edit
reply to funny

said by funny:

your smoking crack again, wholesale shouldn't in fact be EVER cheaper then anything retail....

Bell can chose to sell services at retail at a loss but under normal conditions wholesale should pretty much always be cheaper than retail.


tristen1230

join:2010-12-26
Belleville, ON
reply to londoner1

Anything related to Bell. I would never go with them.


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to 34764170

said by 34764170:

Bell can chose to sell services at retail at a loss but under normal conditions wholesale should pretty much always be cheaper than retail.

In principle, incumbents do have the opportunity to optimize their network to their own needs and subscriber usage patterns, which should grant them a considerable cost saving advantage over wholesale if they decided to fully leverage it.

So I would not be so quick to conclude that wholesale end-users cost incumbents less (infrastructure-wise) than retail subscribers. After all, accommodating wholesale services does require extra equipment and network configurations that incumbents would not otherwise need for themselves.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

said by InvalidError:

In principle, incumbents do have the opportunity to optimize their network to their own needs and subscriber usage patterns, which should grant them a considerable cost saving advantage over wholesale if they decided to fully leverage it.

So I would not be so quick to conclude that wholesale end-users cost incumbents less (infrastructure-wise) than retail subscribers. After all, accommodating wholesale services does require extra equipment and network configurations that incumbents would not otherwise need for themselves.

In theory they could do a lot of things but they do not. The IISPs also have an advantage of not having such large companies with massive overhead that has to be taken into consideration with pricing of the products.

I never said they cost the incumbents less. Wow, for real? It requires extra equipment to service wholesale customers? Like that isn't painfully obvious. This is the business they are in as a telecommunications carrier.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to funny

said by funny:

your smoking crack again, wholesale shouldn't in fact be EVER cheaper then anything retail....in any market if it is your in trouble in that business.
now go back and read what your trying to justify that a wholesale price SHOULD be higher then a retail one.
HEHE people aren't stupid

You're reading too much in my words. I never defined the price of wholesale. I only said as per the CRTC rules, if there's a retail DSL plan, that plan is supposed to also be offered on wholesale, price will differ but the CRTC sets the costing and markups on that.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to 34764170

said by 34764170:

The IISPs also have an advantage of not having such large companies with massive overhead that has to be taken into consideration with pricing of the products.

You can have small companies with disproportionate overheads and large companies with smaller (proportionally) overheads too. It has a lot more to do with management and corporate culture than the company's size.

On the other hand, a small company cannot avoid losing out on economies of scale and efficiency gain opportunities. Things like internal tools, processes and procedures R&D are almost flat regardless of company size so they are much more easily absorbed by larger organizations and those get a lot more value out of them too.

If you mean overheads like work unions, TSI could get hit by one of those too if their employees start feeling like they deserve more than what TSI is willing to give them. I don't know about Ontario's labor code but last time I heard/read about it in QC, employers with more than 50 full-time employees cannot object to employees voting to unionize.

docbill

join:2006-10-24
Stoney Creek, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·Velcom
·Bell Sympatico
·Bell Fibe
·voip.ms
·PortBridge Inter..
reply to TSI Jon

OK. Lets try a more far comparison.

TSI DSL

Download/Upload Gig Cap Base Price Modem Rental Dry Loop Install
A. 25M/10M 300 GB $52.99 $8 ~ $10 $95
B. 25M/10M none $77.99 $8 ~ $10 $95

Lets amortize the install cost over 12 months. As that seems like a reasonable time frame before there is need for a service call or something else that adds another one time charge...

So that makes the TekSavvy totals:
A. $78.91/month + HST for 300 GB,
B. $103.91 + HST for unlimited

Bell Canada

Download/Upload Gig Cap Base Price Modem Rental Dry Loop Install
C. 25M/10M 100 GB $57.95 $0 $0 -$108 *1
D. 25M/10M 100 GB $57.95 $0 $0 $0 *2
E. 25M/10M none $67.95 $0 $0 -$108 *3
F. 25M/10M none $87.95 $0 $0 -$108 *1
G. 25M/10M none $87.95 $0 $0 $0 *2

*1 - With bundle
*2 - Without bundle
*3 - With triple bundle

The -$108 install fee is the way I'm listing the first 6 month discount. Again let amortize over 12 months for the totals:

C. $48.95/month + HST for 100 GB
D. $57.95/month + HST for 100 GB
E. $58.95/month + HST for unlimited
F. $78.95/month + HST for unlimited
G. $87.95/month + HST for unlimited

The other thing to keep in mind is Bell Canada will give you discounts on your other services as well if you have them bundled. So it looks like no matter how you crunch the numbers, it is cheaper to go with Bell Canada.

Of course I don't know if they do free installs, maybe that was a limited time promotion. The express install fee is about $75, and maybe that would apply in non-express cases. If so, bump my estimates by $6.25 a month to:

C. $55.20/month + HST for 100 GB
D. $64.20/month + HST for 100 GB
E. $65.20/month + HST for unlimited
F. $85.20/month + HST for unlimited
G. $94.20/month + HST for unlimited

The big disadvantage with going with Bell is they tend to be very unreliable when it comes to billing. In the past 12 months, only 3 months have I not needed to call them to correct some billing mistake...