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GreenEnvy22

join:2011-08-04
St Catharines, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

Business VDSL25 and MLPPP?

Currently have dry loop VDSL 25/7 service with Teksavvy, works great. Can we combine 2 or 3 services to get say 75/21, or thereabouts?

Is MLPPP creating a true single-connection? In our scenario, we'd be using it for our SAN's to replicate at night. Right now I am only able to transmit at 10Mbps (on our fiber) to our US site. Will I this let me then transmit at around 20MBps?
Just trying to figure out if this is really making a single 21meg pipe for upload, or 3 separate 7 meg ones.

Also, would I need 3 dry loop lines to make this work?
If so I'd be basically paying 3x$109, 3x$12 for dry loop, 3x modem rental, and the MLPPP fee.

Finally, saw some discussion of bell opening up some new tiers, like 50 down, not sure upload. Will TS be getting them soon?


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

said by GreenEnvy22:

Currently have dry loop VDSL 25/7 service with Teksavvy, works great. Can we combine 2 or 3 services to get say 75/21, or thereabouts?

Is MLPPP creating a true single-connection? In our scenario, we'd be using it for our SAN's to replicate at night. Right now I am only able to transmit at 10Mbps (on our fiber) to our US site. Will I this let me then transmit at around 20MBps?
Just trying to figure out if this is really making a single 21meg pipe for upload, or 3 separate 7 meg ones.

Also, would I need 3 dry loop lines to make this work?
If so I'd be basically paying 3x$109, 3x$12 for dry loop, 3x modem rental, and the MLPPP fee.

Finally, saw some discussion of bell opening up some new tiers, like 50 down, not sure upload. Will TS be getting them soon?

Correct, MLPPP results in one logical connection of X number of physical connections. So you could combine 3 25/7 connections to result in one logical 75/21 connection. This is important because it will allow a single TCP/IP connection whether it be TCP/UDP/etc. to utilize all of the available bandwidth over the logical connection as opposed to other means of load balancing multiple separate connections and which have the limitation of only providing a net gain in the downstream path and not the upstream path.

Yes, you would need dry loops for each VDSL2 connection.

The new tier is 50/10, so no additional bandwidth on the upstream side at least so far. Can't comment on whether they will be receiving access to this new tier any time soon or not.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to GreenEnvy22

Yeah, for pure upstream, 3x 10/7 is going to get you just as far as 3x 25/7, and a bunch cheaper too...

For 50/10, Bell doesn't offer 50/10 to business customers, so there won't be a tariff. But you can often get a residential connection at a business address. That's what we did, to save money.

It's worth noting that the residential tiers all offer 10 megs of upstream, while the business tiers offer only 7. Not sure why Bell does it like that.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

said by Guspaz:

It's worth noting that the residential tiers all offer 10 megs of upstream, while the business tiers offer only 7. Not sure why Bell does it like that.

That is pretty strange especially as businesses are where the additional bandwidth is going to be utilized more often. But then again Rogers held out on the faster speed tiers for business service for a long time.

Cloneman

join:2002-08-29
Montreal
kudos:4
reply to GreenEnvy22

2x 25/10 equals 50/20

WRT54gl can't handle more than 20mbit w/ mlppp ... you have to use some other hardware to do it.


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

said by Cloneman:

2x 25/10 equals 50/20

WRT54gl can't handle more than 20mbit w/ mlppp ... you have to use some other hardware to do it.

Your point being?


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to 34764170

said by 34764170:

said by Guspaz:

It's worth noting that the residential tiers all offer 10 megs of upstream, while the business tiers offer only 7. Not sure why Bell does it like that.

That is pretty strange especially as businesses are where the additional bandwidth is going to be utilized more often. But then again Rogers held out on the faster speed tiers for business service for a long time.

The target for DSL is small business where speeds don't necessarily matter and this suits the majority of business users. The bread and butter is in fiber for those businesses who need the speed, SLA and reliability and that's where Bell and Rogers is making money.

GreenEnvy22

join:2011-08-04
St Catharines, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to GreenEnvy22

Thanks for the input folks.
This would be a much cheaper option than upgrading out 10/10 fiber to 20/20 ($1200). 75/21 for about $450/month all in is nice.

Whats the max number of modems this can support? The router they use must have a certain number of ports.


Bugblndr

join:2010-03-02
Burlington, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

Before you go and order 3 or more lines, get one first to start. I know with the 25/10 service at my location I can get a maximum of 3.7 Mb/s up stream. Using MLPPP, you're only going to get a multiple of your slowest link.

In terms of the max number of lines you can have, I believe it's 6 or 7 with Teksavvy. To do that you'll need some beefy hardware acting as the router.



derekm

join:2008-02-26
kudos:1
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

It's worth noting that the residential tiers all offer 10 megs of upstream, while the business tiers offer only 7. Not sure why Bell does it like that.

This is not strictly true:

»www.bell.ca/shop/Sb_viewProduct.···nt1-tabs

Under 'Optional\Upload Speed', we can see that a 10Mpbs upload tier is indeed being offered. As to why it's not available to GAS under speed matching - well that is a different question.

GreenEnvy22

join:2011-08-04
St Catharines, ON
reply to Bugblndr

We've already got 25/7 running at full speed.
Our firewall is a watchguard enterprise grade, rated at a gigabit throughput on the router



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to GreenEnvy22

IIRC it's 7 to 8 depending on how the MLPPP implementation works on the client-side. Anything based on Linux/MLPPP or Tomato/MLPPP is going to be 7, because the limit on TekSavvy's side is 8, and we reserve an additional virtual session, if you will, to manage the bundle. Implementations that don't work this way can use the full 8. We didn't consider it a big deal because we didn't consider many people would be using that many lines anyhow (Tomato/MLPPP is effectively limited to 2 lines anyhow).

TekSavvy uses the MicroTik 750g to bond up to 4 lines, and the MicroTik 493 (I assume they mean 493AH or 493G? Confirm with them, the 493 with no letters on the end is much slower) to bond up to 8 lines.

The devices are cheap; the most expensive variant of the 493 is still only $199 MSRP, although the case/power supply/etc might be extra.

EDIT: the 750 series have 5 ports, the 493 series have 9 ports.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to mlerner

said by mlerner:

The target for DSL is small business where speeds don't necessarily matter and this suits the majority of business users. The bread and butter is in fiber for those businesses who need the speed, SLA and reliability and that's where Bell and Rogers is making money.

This is an assumption at best and is wrong. Ya, fibre where it's not available.

Bugblndr

join:2010-03-02
Burlington, ON

Fibre is available in most business areas, if you're willing to pay. I know at our business it took over 9 months from order date, and the install fee was high.


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

said by Bugblndr:

Fibre is available in most business areas, if you're willing to pay. I know at our business it took over 9 months from order date, and the install fee was high.

Exactly, business areas and the extremely high install fees. Making this not an option for a lot of smaller businesses.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5

said by 34764170:

said by Bugblndr:

Fibre is available in most business areas, if you're willing to pay. I know at our business it took over 9 months from order date, and the install fee was high.

Exactly, business areas and the extremely high install fees. Making this not an option for a lot of smaller businesses.

That's what DSL is for.

GreenEnvy22

join:2011-08-04
St Catharines, ON

That and or having a backup.
We use our Fiber for mission-critical stuff, and have the DSL set as a failover for that, as well as being used for general web-surfing stuff.


Sanek

join:2006-08-10
Kanata, ON
reply to Bugblndr

said by Bugblndr:

Fibre is available in most business areas, if you're willing to pay. I know at our business it took over 9 months from order date, and the install fee was high.

Yep this is true, so we went with Rogers 150/10/unlimited instead at our new office only to find out that its actually unlimited/10/unlimited (according to the technician at least).

Speed test shows 175/9.7, but maybe its speed boost (although I'm told speed boost is disabled in this case).

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

1 edit
reply to mlerner

said by mlerner:

That's what DSL is for.

Wow, for real?