dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
4899
share rss forum feed

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
reply to Cho Baka

Re: why would you want a stick shift?

I remember Mazdas from the 1970's. Their rotary engines wouldn't start in the mornings.



NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
reply to Badonkadonk

Oh I know.. had to bury my grandfather in Rochester, NY last December and got some snow while I was up there. Man oh man the sludge, the snow, the way the melting shit stuck to your car and hung off the wheel arches... I would be pissed.



Darkfairy
Aeolus, your daughter flies.
Premium
join:2003-03-17
Louisville, KY

1 recommendation

reply to NOCTech75

I have never owned a vehicle without a clutch, and I don't understand why so many choose automatics. There is a lot of false information in this thread, I'm going to attempt to clarify some of it.

said by NOCTech75:

So a Ferrari 458 is not a proper sports car?

The 458 has two clutches and still must be shifted. Therefore, it is still a manual. Same as an F1 car.

Automatics are advertised as having higher fuel efficiency because their running gear is geared lower than the manual. It's a marketing tactic. The truth is, it works both ways in practice. It takes more gas to maintain speed, even though the engine is running lower rpm the load is higher. I have NEVER driven an automatic that returned better fuel economy than the manual version.

Automatics are less reliable, on average failing at approximately 100-120k miles. Many manuals are sealed and are rated to be reliable for over 1 million miles. This is one of the main reasons big rigs are still primarily manuals.

A manual will always be faster and more efficient. A clutch has less power losses, and has less power draw than a torque converter.

There really is no replacement for selecting the ratio of torque output of your engine. So called 'manumatics' help with this problem, but are still controlled by logic and still shift only when the computer shifts it for you. I drove a Lexus IS350 with such a system a while back, and sometimes the shifts would be delayed by upwards of 2 seconds. Very annoying.

Driving a manual does not require more work. When you learn the amount of pressure required to activate the pressure plate, it really only requires a few pounds of force by your foot. Most modern manuals have synchros that rev match for you, guides that slip it into gear for you, etc. you really only need to tap it for it to fall into gear. Again, minimal effort required. If this is too much work for one to perform, I'd love to hear what you do for a job. I exert more energy taking a crap than I do shifting gears.
--
Fairy Blessings,
Stefanie

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to aurgathor

said by aurgathor:

Actually, with some cars stick still costs a little less.

And I've actually seen at least one car where the base models with AT were more expensive, but there were no difference in case of the upscale model.

In my case, the vehicle I drive wasn't even available with stick shift (for that particular engine, a 351W), although in theory I can get a 5 speed tranny and other needed parts out of a F250/F350 and install it myself.

Lastly, I agree on stop-and-go traffic. It really sucks, even with AT.

I took my driver's license test on a manual and I have always had manuals until a year ago. I had to spend $1000 extra to get automatic on my new Honda. I did it only because I am getting up there in years and I had times in my previous sporty coupe in the last few years I had it with bad cramps suddenly in my left calf, bursitis a few times in my left hip which was aggravated by the clutch, and right frozen shoulder for a year that made it very painful and difficult to drive a stick....so seemed best to transition to an "old folks" car which is what automatic is to me. It is zero fun to drive and the only reason to ever get automatic is because you are getting old or you live in San Francisco...a lot of hill driving is not too much fun in a stick. I don't mind a stick in city traffic. I always drove a lot in neutral.

The owner of the body shop I have used through the past three cars told me a few years ago that he admired me because I was a wahine who could drive a sports cars with a stick. He said that was a lost art in Hawaii among younger people and especially unusual to find a woman who owned a stick. He said when he bought his new truck for the first time he got auto tranny for one reason. He goes hunting a lot alone, way out away from civilization, and he worried that he might get injured and not be able to drive for help (cell phones don't work in many areas of this island).
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Darkfairy

You must be tall. A short person needs extenders to do a clutch proud. Plus, you must be young...wait till you get frozen shoulder in the right shoulder or bursitis of the hips...especially if you can barely fully depress the clutch because of being short and you have the seat pulled up as close as possible and are at risk for air bag injury/death because the seat is so close to the steering wheel. My last car took a lot of effort to drive. It was fun when I first got it ...but I was almost 14 years younger then. The ones before it were lots of fun and they had no power steering...but I was young then. One chooses auto only because they are getting old and it is the right choice at that stage of life for almost anyone.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to Darkfairy

5-speed automatic gets better gas mileage than the 6-speed manual.


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

1 edit

Only by EPA - I can get more MPG from a manual. Manual has a major advantage over the automatic - you shift when you want. I shift early in all of the manuals I drive and I get between 10-15% more MPG than the EPA. If I have to get into the gas then I can shift early after that and mitigate the damage of getting into the throttle - this is pretty much impossible with an automatic.

EPA numbers are a guideline - there is zero guarantee that you will get the MPG on either side but it is a TON easier to beat EPA in a manual by begin smarter when driving.

I am currently getting about 24 MPG around town in my 2001 330i -

quote:
Premium Gasoline
21 Combined
18 City
27 Highway
»www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/noframes/16496.shtml

So I am getting about 20% more than the EPA for city - mainly because I can go into 5 the gear at 35 mpg. I also get 30-33 mpg highway at 70 mph - a good deal better than EPA. I can get these numbers with the mid-range gas (89 octane).

If I get on the highway - even for 10 minutes then I can get as much as 25.5 mpg - beating the EPA by even more.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5

100% spot on. I get about 15% greater mileage than the EPA estimates for combined and easily more than 20% greater than highway numbers.
--
"You lie!" Talk about an understatement, Joe.



NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
reply to Darkfairy

When I sprained my right ankle at Road Atlanta a few years ago I was VERY happy to have an auto.



CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to Badonkadonk

Just went out to get some stuff - with minimal highway - I am up to 24.7 mpg...



Darkfairy
Aeolus, your daughter flies.
Premium
join:2003-03-17
Louisville, KY
reply to Bob4

I averaged 37 highway in my Si, where EPA says 31. I don't know where they get their numbers but they are way off.
--
Fairy Blessings,
Stefanie



Darkfairy
Aeolus, your daughter flies.
Premium
join:2003-03-17
Louisville, KY
reply to Mele20

I'd wager to bet I'm older than most here, and I'm 5'6". Somewhat tall, but not overtly so.
--
Fairy Blessings,
Stefanie


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to NOCTech75

said by NOCTech75:

When I sprained my right ankle at Road Atlanta a few years ago I was VERY happy to have an auto.

I broke my left foot in 2005, and was happy to have an automatic.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

I had an injury to the large toe on my left foot and I continued to drive my stick (didn't really have a choice). It was pretty difficult and I had to compensate by twisting my foot somewhat. I can't imagine how I would have managed if my foot had been broken.

So yeah, automatics definitely have their advantages.
--
"You lie!" Talk about an understatement, Joe.



NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA

Uh oh, now you've done it... you actually said automatics have their advantages, your man card is gone too!



I AM
Premium
join:2010-04-11
Ephrata, PA
kudos:4

said by NOCTech75:

Uh oh, now you've done it... you actually said automatics have their advantages, your man card is gone too!

Yups. Need to be revoked!


NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by I AM:

said by NOCTech75:

Uh oh, now you've done it... you actually said automatics have their advantages, your man card is gone too!

Yups. Need to be revoked!

So come and revoke it.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to NOCTech75

Foot pains are the worst. I'll give up my man card for pain relief.

On a different note, I'm travelling right now and I got a Mazda 3 automatic from Hertz. It's a pretty stripped down model, but I have to say it drove far better than the Chevy Cruze from Hertz I drove last week when I was traveling.

The Mazda 3 feels pretty close to mine and the automatic does a fine job, although there are times I would have chosen different gears. The Cruze on the other hand was horrendous. It was constantly upshifting and downshifting. Very annoying. I'd definitely have preferred a manual.
--
"You lie!" Talk about an understatement, Joe.



NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA

I did a hike about a month ago and had a crappy day, finished it but cramping and high level of exhaustion made me real happy to have the auto.


Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to NOCTech75

it is not that bad until you get really really cold days. At that point that shit does not fall off. And then gets to the point you have to boot it off.

Most car washes in the Northeast however do have the under-carriage wash as an option that in theory helps remove the salty slush.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

Truth be told, I hate the stuff that hangs of the wheel arches, but I love kicking at it and watching that dirty stuff fall off in a big chunk and smash onto the street or driveway.
--
"You lie!" Talk about an understatement, Joe.



NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA

You probably like when little kids(and midgets) fall off things and smash onto the street or driveway.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5

That has kind of a reality-TV appeal to it.


Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

said by Badonkadonk:

That has kind of a reality-TV appeal to it.

Already done, America's Funniest Home Videos. Showing people and their kids falling off bikes and face planting since the 1980s.(In a way it was the precursor to Youtube)
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA

1 recommendation

This would be different... it would be Goober kickin them.


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to Kearnstd

said by Kearnstd:

Most car washes in the Northeast however do have the under-carriage wash as an option that in theory helps remove the salty slush.

Except that most of them have all the power of your kitchen sink sprayer, and simply wet the dirt and salt, increasing the risk of corrosion.

Regarding transmissions, I had a Toyota Corolla with a 2-speed automatic. It was great when you were moving at 45 mph, needed to accelerate and the damn thing would shift into first gear, and usually blow the valve cover gasket in the process.


pmohr
Premium
join:2002-09-22
Maryville, TN
reply to Darkfairy

said by Darkfairy:

There is a lot of false information in this thread, I'm going to attempt to clarify some of it.

...

A manual will always be faster and more efficient. A clutch has less power losses, and has less power draw than a torque converter.

...

Driving a manual does not require more work.

For every day driving, yes, generally the same exact vehicle will be quicker with a manual, but that's not always a truth. There's a point (which isn't really all that low, but mostly concerning racing) where an automatic will outrace a manual, everything else equal...you just can't beat an automatic shift (with a good trans) with a driver working a clutch and shifter manually.

And as far as saying that a 'manual does not require more work', that is just obviously false. You have a clutch and a shifter to operate, which require effort to use. Not a lot, no, but it's definitely more work than not using them would be.

That being said, the only personal vehicle I've had that's an automatic is my truck, just because it wasn't available in a long bed 5 speed. A manual will always be better in my eyes, short of working on them (I'd rather rebuild a dozen automatics than another manual, so much easier).


Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
reply to Bob4

Bob, you just dated yourself. That is old!

btw, your "join" date does not match your join date.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.



CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to pmohr

They may shift faster but autos are generally not real reliable - especially in racing. That is why no major racing series use automatics - at least to my knowledge - from F1 thru F3, to Indy, none in NASCAR, WRC, NHRA (maybe NHRA but they run much slower), ALMS, LeMans (European), Rolxes series, WTCC, DTM, BTCC - just off the top of my head.

They Subaru SVX was also noted for having a fast shifting automatic - too bad they did not have a reputation of lasting 60K+ miles.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain



Darkfairy
Aeolus, your daughter flies.
Premium
join:2003-03-17
Louisville, KY
reply to pmohr

I'm able to shift gears in under 2 tenths of a second. A very good automatic can take an entire second and some of them, like that IS350, take even longer. So no, not faster at all.
--
Fairy Blessings,
Stefanie