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jonnytek

@aei.ca

[Cable] Neighbour denied access to demarcation point

My girlfriend and I have just purchased and moved into her father's house. We had the Videotron technician come by tonight to hook up our Teksavvy Internet but the demarcation point is in our neighbour's property. He went to ask her to unlock the door to her backyard and then screamed at him saying that he had no right to enter her property and slammed the door on him! This was about an hour or two ago. She's shut her lights, closed the flaps on her Tempo and is not answering her phone. I've asked my father in law to extend his Internet another month since it was going to stop tomorrow so at least I've still got Internet!

Does anyone know what recourse I have? I live in Laval, Quebec. Any help would be greatly appreciated.



TSI Martin
Premium
join:2006-02-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:33

In all honesty, I believe your best bet will be to have a discussion with your neighbour. It may be better to have a face to face discussion than to do it over the phone.

Otherwise, you may find out with your city what are your rights when it comes to utilities & last option is really going with a different service.

I would like to have a perfect answer, but unfortunately that just isn't the case.
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alex3324

join:2000-08-03
West Des Moines, IA
reply to jonnytek

I would imagine this is how it works in Canada, but YMMV. In the US, utility companies have an easement for the land they occupy. As a for instance, the back 5 feet of my lot includes an easement to the electric, telephone, and cable utilities and those entities have access at any time. This is granted in the title toy property. Your cable company's legal department knows all about this issue and needs to fix it. Is the neighbor the owner or renter? If renter, the property owner might be able to help.

Expand your moderator at work


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to jonnytek

Re: [Cable] Neighbour denied access to demarcation point

Bet a dime to a dollar the poor woman just moved there herself from Ontario to escape Rogers poisonous grip. Probably an ex customer driven to the brink of insanity by anyone saying the word "Internet" or "Cable".

This is what Rogers does to people. Can't blame the old doll. After years of price hikes and thieving from Rogers. Feel that way myself sometimes..........



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to jonnytek

Was it TS cable or DSL that you were going to get activated?

Basically, you'll want the underlying utility (Bell or Videotron) to install a demarc on your property... Without knowing the layout of your property, hard to say how the utilities are run; and why the demarc for your services are on her property.

Legally, the utility does have the right to access the demarc, but going to war with your neighbor will be a last resort, for sure... You'll have to deal with her for some time to come, and the better that relationship is, the happier you'll life will be.



JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:11
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by LazMan:

Was it TS cable or DSL that you were going to get activated?

Basically, you'll want the underlying utility (Bell or Videotron) to install a demarc on your property... Without knowing the layout of your property, hard to say how the utilities are run; and why the demarc for your services are on her property.

Legally, the utility does have the right to access the demarc, but going to war with your neighbor will be a last resort, for sure... You'll have to deal with her for some time to come, and the better that relationship is, the happier you'll life will be.

The OP is saying demarc but what I think he means is that the distribution box is on the neighbours property.

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to jonnytek

By law, she can't refuse access to their equipment. I have a feeling the box is right on the edge of two properties but require access from her's.

It may end up with the cable guys setting up a 2nd demarc point for your property, or move the box.

It could be a very long drawn out process, so best you go speak with them directly, and explain they need access to their box for your cable connection. Failing that, the cable guys will have to figure out something, cause they can't refuse to give you service because of their issue with your neighbour.



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to JCohen

said by JCohen:

The OP is saying demarc but what I think he means is that the distribution box is on the neighbours property.

Could be either - I've seen 'common' demarcs before, tpycally in townhome and duplex situations...

Either way, the utility has the right to access it freely... But the whole "you catch more flies with honey then vinegar" thing hold's true, as well...


good luck

@videotron.ca
reply to alex3324

said by alex3324:

the back 5 feet of my lot includes an easement to the electric, telephone, and cable utilities and those entities have access at any time.

1-Meter here. Not sure if this is dependent on municipality or standard for all.


Rickkins

join:2004-04-05
Mtl, Canada
reply to jonnytek

Try asking the question in the Videotron forum, they may have more experience...

»Videotron



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to elitefx

said by elitefx:

Bet a dime to a dollar the poor woman just moved there herself from Ontario to escape Rogers poisonous grip. Probably an ex customer driven to the brink of insanity by anyone saying the word "Internet" or "Cable".

This is what Rogers does to people. Can't blame the old doll. After years of price hikes and thieving from Rogers. Feel that way myself sometimes..........

Though your post would make it funny if it were true, this is and i'd guarantee it unlikely. We have several people like this around here.
Considering they own the box on her property, could they not demand access to it? Sounds like a crazy lady.

MrMazda86

join:2013-01-29
Kitchener, ON

said by Tx:

said by elitefx:

Bet a dime to a dollar the poor woman just moved there herself from Ontario to escape Rogers poisonous grip. Probably an ex customer driven to the brink of insanity by anyone saying the word "Internet" or "Cable".

This is what Rogers does to people. Can't blame the old doll. After years of price hikes and thieving from Rogers. Feel that way myself sometimes..........

Though your post would make it funny if it were true, this is and i'd guarantee it unlikely. We have several people like this around here.
Considering they own the box on her property, could they not demand access to it? Sounds like a crazy lady.

I would tend to disagree there... I too absolutely LOTHE Rogers. Lucky for them though that their technicians are thankfully not the problem from my experience. I don't know if it works the same way in Québec but in Ontario, if a property owner or renter refuses access to the utility service point, there are two different options that you have, depending on whether the "crazy lady" is a renter or the property owner. If they are a renter, you are able to file an application with the Landlord Tenant Board (formerly the Ontario Rental Housing Tribunal) to force the property owner to provide access to this point. The other option is a little more forceful if you will, as it involves getting the police involved. I don't know exactly what section it falls under in the Criminal Code of Canada, as I've thankfully never had to use this option in my many years of property management, however you do have the option of making a phone call to your local police department. The way that this forced process works is pretty straight forward. Should the "crazy lady" fail to allow access to a utility provider to access their equipment for hookup upon request from a police officer, they will very quickly find themselves on the receiving end of a hefty fine, and subject to the threat of criminal charges. Once they fail to provide access a second time, let's just say, you won't see the "crazy lady" again for a long time unless she makes bail.

Yes... That's right... Refusal to provide access to a utility provider to their service (or hook-up) point is actually a federal offence that carries a fine "not to exceed $5000" and also carries a "sentence not to exceed 5 years". My best suggestion here that I have had work many times myself with property management is to try talking to the "crazy lady" and explaining that she has a legal obligation to provide access to this hookup point, and that if she refuses to allow access, she could land herself in some major hot water. Every time that I have had to go down this avenue with someone working in property management, the sudden realization of the potential for criminal charges alone seems to be enough to scare them into allowing the carrier to access their service point. Should it fail, you always have the option of actually calling your local police department to have an officer explain it to her directly. Sadly though, this option from what I've been told by many other district managers of other districts is that this option frequently leads either to retaliation by vandalism, or to direct personal attacks on some level. If they're a renter, you have all the more power to be able to file an application for eviction with the Landlord Tenant Board should this happen, as it is legally considered to be an "excessive disturbance to the reasonable enjoyment of the property". Just in case, I would recommend finding out whether this person owns or rents for this reason before going forward with this option.

JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to jonnytek

said by jonnytek :

My girlfriend and I have just purchased and moved into her father's house. We had the Videotron technician come by tonight to hook up our Teksavvy Internet but the demarcation point is in our neighbour's property. He went to ask her to unlock the door to her backyard and then screamed at him saying that he had no right to enter her property and slammed the door on him! This was about an hour or two ago. She's shut her lights, closed the flaps on her Tempo and is not answering her phone. I've asked my father in law to extend his Internet another month since it was going to stop tomorrow so at least I've still got Internet!

Does anyone know what recourse I have? I live in Laval, Quebec. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If the neighbour isn't reasonable there's a simple way to resolve the issue:

Call the police and/or the RCMP. It's actually a federal crime to impede technician access to telecommunications equipment. The tech should have done it on the spot or at the very least called in and had their legal dept call the woman.

graniterock
Premium
join:2003-03-14
London, ON
reply to MrMazda86

Yourself or the technician call always phone the police department (non-emerg number not 911) and ask if they would be willing to send an officer over to "keep the peace" if she ends up being unwilling to co-operate.


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by graniterock:

Yourself or the technician call always phone the police department (non-emerg number not 911)

The last time I tried directly calling a local police department in QC, the PD's receptionist told me the number I called is for PR and local inquiries only and for anything that requires dispatch, call 911 to get on the dispatch queue.

graniterock
Premium
join:2003-03-14
London, ON
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

said by InvalidError:

said by graniterock:

Yourself or the technician call always phone the police department (non-emerg number not 911)

The last time I tried directly calling a local police department in QC, the PD's receptionist told me the number I called is for PR and local inquiries only and for anything that requires dispatch, call 911 to get on the dispatch queue.

They are quite helpful here in London and their website actually gives examples of emergency vs not and what number to call. My job is such we do need to involve the police occationally in non-emergency situations. I've always considered it a faux pas to do otherwise and every few years there's a media / public relations effort to remind us of this. I'm surprised it's not the same most places. Those 911 services are expensive to maintain.

(Edit: I should add however if you are actively engaged in an escalating conflict 911 is appropriate. At least here in London if making a pro-active "keep the peace" request to have an officer come at some point in the future that can go through the non-emerg number).

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

1 recommendation

said by graniterock:

Those 911 services are expensive to maintain.

Centralized dispatching should actually be cheaper since you have much fewer call centers to maintain, much less local staff twiddling their thumbs between calls and more efficient use of office space and equipments. It also gives a lot more flexibility in case of emergency since telephonists who get called in to handle extra call volume do not need to live/work anywhere near where the actual emergency is occurring.

Without this, you end up having to hire possibly more than 3X as many telephonists since you need separate ones for every PD/FD/hospital, most of them requiring just about the same degree to information access as 911 does... so, "expensive to maintain" X3.

Like many governmental databases and systems, the main reason why they end up "expensive" is because middlemen and other interested parties are inflating bills by making the whole thing more complicated and expensive than it should be.

graniterock
Premium
join:2003-03-14
London, ON
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

I think a key difference in difference is that ideally 911 calls get answered right away (I know this doesn't always happen). A non-emergency call can be put on hold. I actually have no idea if the call centres are seperate from each other or not. In theory a less qualified (cheaper) person could answer non-emergency calls and escalate to 911 if needed. It is an interesting topic.... Might be worth moving this to the Canadian chat. I don't want to steal the OP's thunder.

Back to the topic.... Regardless of the method... the police are there if this woman is so volitile she can't be reasoned with. Hopefully when reapproached she will be having a better day.



BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA

2 recommendations

My guess is when they come back next week, she'll have disconnected her DIY cable hookup and be much more willing to let them on the property. After they leave, she'll be right back out there hooking herself back up.



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by BronsCon:

My guess is when they come back next week, she'll have disconnected her DIY cable hookup and be much more willing to let them on the property. After they leave, she'll be right back out there hooking herself back up.

+1 lol... Now that's the most logical answer i've seen yet. Would explain the odd behavior, i'd probably act the same way

Neo

join:2012-03-16
reply to BronsCon

said by BronsCon:

My guess is when they come back next week, she'll have disconnected her DIY cable hookup and be much more willing to let them on the property. After they leave, she'll be right back out there hooking herself back up.

Can you really do that and get cable for free? I always wondered if such a thing was possible if you had access to the "distribution box".


xbell

@cgocable.net
reply to MrMazda86

There is no specific criminal code provision to force land owners to provide access to telecommunications in Canada unless the land owner is specifically preventing access through only one path of ingression. Good luck getting a cop to come out. This is usually rectified as a litigation, or threat thereof, of a tortuous act by way of mandatory injunction to remove the obstacle or monetary damages to move the terminal. I've been through trying to gain access thousands of times to terminals in Canada. In one case, when I was a Bell Canada tech (NOT BTS) we had to get Bell's legal dept. to send a letter to a homeowner who had blocked access and even though there an easement that we could travel on with the police present to prevent a breach of the peace we still needed further accommodation on a structural issue.


funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to JMJimmy

said by JMJimmy:

said by jonnytek :

My girlfriend and I have just purchased and moved into her father's house. We had the Videotron technician come by tonight to hook up our Teksavvy Internet but the demarcation point is in our neighbour's property. He went to ask her to unlock the door to her backyard and then screamed at him saying that he had no right to enter her property and slammed the door on him! This was about an hour or two ago. She's shut her lights, closed the flaps on her Tempo and is not answering her phone. I've asked my father in law to extend his Internet another month since it was going to stop tomorrow so at least I've still got Internet!

Does anyone know what recourse I have? I live in Laval, Quebec. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If the neighbour isn't reasonable there's a simple way to resolve the issue:

Call the police and/or the RCMP. It's actually a federal crime to impede technician access to telecommunications equipment. The tech should have done it on the spot or at the very least called in and had their legal dept call the woman.

aren't those techs the same thng as the rcmp/police i mean....oh right teehee


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to Neo

said by Neo:

said by BronsCon:

My guess is when they come back next week, she'll have disconnected her DIY cable hookup and be much more willing to let them on the property. After they leave, she'll be right back out there hooking herself back up.

Can you really do that and get cable for free? I always wondered if such a thing was possible if you had access to the "distribution box".

Not if you value freedom.


d4m1r

join:2011-08-25
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

said by BronsCon:

said by Neo:

said by BronsCon:

My guess is when they come back next week, she'll have disconnected her DIY cable hookup and be much more willing to let them on the property. After they leave, she'll be right back out there hooking herself back up.

Can you really do that and get cable for free? I always wondered if such a thing was possible if you had access to the "distribution box".

Not if you value freedom.

And if you don't?
--
www.613websites.com Budget Canadian Web Design and Hosting


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

It's the cable company, fuck 'em, do it.

I'm not sure how cable companies operate in Canada, but here in the US, even though they can press charges the first time they catch you, they typically give you three strikes. I learned this when my line was disconnected three times due to an unauthorized (stolen) DVR being connected; each time, a loss prevention rep came out before the tech to reconnect me, and each time they found that the lady in the unit across the hall from mine had spliced into my line.

Prison time for her after the 3rd offense.

She was a crafty girl, I'll tell you what; I came to find, while helping the landlord clean out her place, that she'd installed jumpers from my main breaker to hers. The power company wasn't interested, but I was able to salvage enough decent stuff (which no longer belonged to her by the time the landlord and I were cleaning her place out) from her apartment to more than cover the electricity bill I had been paying for her for over a year, so it all worked out in the end.