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loosedobbs

join:2006-06-13
Toronto
reply to jaberi

Re: Hamilton workers ran errands instead of fixing potholes

sometime back news was about Montreal workers right? Now Hamilton. So next stop might be Toronto.

said by Steve:

Isn't this where the union thugs and stooges show up with "the other side of the story" ?

I was wondering same. May e small cities leader are not powerful as in Toronto. Like Bob Kinnear.
But don't worry the arbitrator will give the jobs back.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

said by loosedobbs:

But don't worry the arbitrator will give the jobs back.

I haven't researched case law specific to time theft but the impression I get is that some will not.

jaberi

join:2010-08-13

said by peterboro:

said by loosedobbs:

But don't worry the arbitrator will give the jobs back.

I haven't researched case law specific to time theft but the impression I get is that some will not.

are you saying that the union will not go and bat for these guys?

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

said by jaberi:

said by peterboro:

said by loosedobbs:

But don't worry the arbitrator will give the jobs back.

I haven't researched case law specific to time theft but the impression I get is that some will not.

are you saying that the union will not go and bat for these guys?

No, they'll all get a hearing but there are so many factors to uphold a dismissal that I doubt the city has enough for all 29.


Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5

said by peterboro:

No, they'll all get a hearing but there are so many factors to uphold a dismissal that I doubt the city has enough for all 29.

Oh, so you're suggesting that management didn't do enough data collection to make their case?

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

said by Steve:

said by peterboro:

No, they'll all get a hearing but there are so many factors to uphold a dismissal that I doubt the city has enough for all 29.

Oh, so you're suggesting that management didn't do enough data collection to make their case?

No, the factors, as in how long they had their job or previous discipline and a hundred other things will be weighed by an arbitrator in conjunction with data collected on the actual offence.


Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5

said by peterboro:

No, the factors, as in how long they had their job or previous discipline and a hundred other things will be weighed by an arbitrator in conjunction with data collected on the actual offence.

So you're saying that there are circumstances where I can chronically and unambiguously steal from the taxpayer and still keep my job?

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

Yes.



Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5

said by peterboro:

Yes.

Holy crap, what a racket.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

said by Steve:

said by peterboro:

Yes.

Holy crap, what a racket.

It's a system balanced on a lot of principles, some of which are debatable.


Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5

That some guy can take a paycheck for skipping work and selling the City's asphalt does not suggest tolerance for errors in judgement, but kowtowing to the union thugs.

And given that you and everybody else know that it's this way, you seriously begrudge management from forming the most rock-solid case possible? Really?


peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

said by Steve:

And given that you and everybody else know that it's this way, you seriously begrudge management from forming the most rock-solid case possible? Really?

I was begrudging the fact that the situation may have lingered needlessly when they should of had enough evidence if the managers had being doing their job. Actually if the managers had been doing their job this would not have happened period..end of story. I don't see anything whatsoever that addresses the actions of management in this.

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
reply to peterboro

said by peterboro:

No, they'll all get a hearing but there are so many factors to uphold a dismissal that I doubt the city has enough for all 29.

ok......wouldn't the city be better off contracting this out to private contractor, and save money in the long run?


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to peterboro

said by peterboro:

Actually if the managers had been doing their job this would not have happened period..end of story. I don't see anything whatsoever that addresses the actions of management in this.

Without knowing the entire story I think that management did their job. They know that hiring a 3rd party to investigate may give them more of a chance to actually fire these employees.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..
reply to jaberi

said by jaberi:

said by peterboro:

No, they'll all get a hearing but there are so many factors to uphold a dismissal that I doubt the city has enough for all 29.

ok......wouldn't the city be better off contracting this out to private contractor, and save money in the long run?

You then have no idea how contracting works.

Two major issues:

1. "Hi, Jim's paving, how can we help you?" ... "Yes, this is the City of Hamilton, we need to contract some work out to you." .. "Oh, City of Hamilton, let us book you our special rate" Special rate is about 10 times higher...they all do this.

2. Workmanship. Just an example, a couple years ago a young teen died when leaning on a baby change table at a City of Guelph facility. The cinderblocks all collapsed on her, they were never anchored nor properly bricked and tied. Now the City of Guelph (as well as builder) have been criminally charged, as well as a rainmaker lawsuit. Someone the city engineer (who are all 6 figure income earners) never caught the poor workmanship. Oddly, the CAO of Guelph wondered why the janitorial staff never saw the poor workmanship. (well, whatta ya expect for $11/hour though)

I am NOT a liberty to give out specific information, but, there was this situation were some work was contracted out. The work was fine, but the end result was extremely poor (can't get into details, but a piss poor decision by management to request this work w/o asking the end users what they thought) and it was questioned later on why not just get rid of the project (and equipment that was built). Some of the managers looked into this (as this project was making this significantly worse for everyone that before) but came back with the answer of "NO".

WHY? Because this equipment was expensive. (basically melamine coated wood - no more details) People started asking around, how much did this cost? $200? No...$500?? No...$700?? No "Well, no way you paid more than $800 for that" No..it was more. "$1000?" No "$1500??" No "What, is it made of gold??" Final price was $6,000 per unit. Guys, this is something most people with a little training and equipment could make. But that, in a nutshell, is why you limit contracting out. Had the city not contracted it out, they would have had something look different, but it would have been hand made as opposed to machine made, probably about $450 with material.

But, as I said "Oh, the city is calling, we'll give you our special price... It is, what it is.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein