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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

1 recommendation

reply to patcat88

Re: Can't locate main water shut-off valve

said by patcat88:

Code illegal, the shutoff must be at the fixture. You can feel free to add more shutoffs whereever you want for maintenance, but there must be one at the fixture.

So are you using current NY code or NY code from 23 years ago to decide this code issue in Ottawa, ON? And are you sure the existing lines weren't grandfathered in under previous codes prior to that.

Regardless, what difference does it matter. If it doesn't have a shutoff now it doesn't have a shutoff. It doesn't change the fact whether it is or isn't against code then or now. And if he is asking to add one, he's fixing the problem anyways.

To the OP, I'd try to trace back from the water heater. Depending on how the pipes are ran you may or may not be able to find it. If it's ran in a finished wall, it could have been covered up. Or it was never there and there was only a shutoff at the street or where ever your main is. If there are similar houses to yours in the area built around the same time, you might check with those owners to see if they have one and where it's located. That might give you an idea if you do have to dig into a wall.

Worst case, a plumber or the city could shut off the line to the house so that one could be added. I've also seen a valve replaced added without shutting it off at the street by freezing the line to plug the water flow. Dry ice and liquid nitrogen have been used. Probably not something you'll want to do without experiencing though as Bad Things™ can happen if you mess it up.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

said by cdru:

Worst case, a plumber or the city could shut off the line to the house so that one could be added. I've also seen a valve replaced added without shutting it off at the street by freezing the line to plug the water flow. Dry ice and liquid nitrogen have been used. Probably not something you'll want to do without experiencing though as Bad Things™ can happen if you mess it up.

Sidewalk valves have a tendency to get paved over during sidewalk replacement in NYC. Rather than use dry ice (or better yet, dry ice, a garbage bag, and alcohol), you can the correct tool »www.ridgid.com/Tools/SF2500-Pipe-Freezer . Warning, price tag says you will be renting it.

lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1
reply to cdru

said by cdru:

Depending on how the pipes are ran you may or may not be able to find it. If it's ran in a finished wall, it could have been covered up.

After more hunting for nails/clamps with the magnetic stud finder, I think the water supply pipe goes down along the corner into the that unusual protrusion and then outside to the meter.

I will try to have a look at a clone of our house before ripping up the cover.

P.S. City of Ottawa guy said they could come and shut off the water when plumber is here. But we should not mess with the meter.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

1 recommendation

Looks like a router to me. Ingenious, disguising the water line as a router.



tschmidt
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join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
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reply to lutful

said by lutful:

After more hunting for nails/clamps with the magnetic stud finder, I think the water supply pipe goes down along the corner into the that unusual protrusion and then outside to the meter.

The meter is outside, that is a new one on me. How do they keep it from freezing?

/tom


Hawk
Riding Thermals
Premium
join:2003-08-25
The Desert
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

2 edits
reply to lutful

P.S. City of Ottawa guy said they could come and shut off the water when plumber is here. But we should not mess with the meter.

Good advice for everyone. The local water authorities here will charge you an arm and a leg if the homeowner or plumber damages or breaks the meter or shut off (on their side). It gets real expensive! Sorry I screwed up the quote



Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL

2 recommendations

reply to tschmidt

said by tschmidt:

said by lutful:

After more hunting for nails/clamps with the magnetic stud finder, I think the water supply pipe goes down along the corner into the that unusual protrusion and then outside to the meter.

The meter is outside, that is a new one on me. How do they keep it from freezing?

/tom

When I had some plumbing done in my house in chicago, they have a tool to unscrew the cap of the Buffalo box. Then like a four foot long T-shaped pole with a key on the end to turn off the supply. So what you see above ground isn't actually the water line. It's more like a cover.

[edit]
It looks like this




They unscrew this then there's a pipe that leads down to the valve. Can't find a picture of that but it's below the frost line.


goofy01

join:2004-02-05
Hammond, IN

Jon, that is just the outside shutoff. Inside it usually shut off valves on both sides of the meter. That's how it was at my parents house in Chicago and my house in Hammond.


lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1

2 edits
reply to Jon

said by Jon:

They unscrew this then there's a pipe that leads down to the valve. Can't find a picture of that but it's below the frost line.

We do have one of those rusted circular access points in the front yard but it is about 10ft from that basement corner and also buried under lots of snow and ice at this moment. However, they are somehow reading the meter (from the outside) even in winter.

I will open the cover of the enclosure tomorrow and post a photo of what is there - hopefully not a bunch of rats. I regret not being more curious about the plumbing and HVAC stuff all these years.

*** Found official info. Water meter is supposed to be on the front wall of basement which includes that corner enclosure. But the recently installed radio transmitter is obviously outside since nobody came into the house.

»ottawa.ca/en/residents/water-and···r-meters


Jon
Premium
join:2001-01-20
Lisle, IL
reply to goofy01

said by goofy01:

Jon, that is just the outside shutoff. Inside it usually shut off valves on both sides of the meter. That's how it was at my parents house in Chicago and my house in Hammond.

Yeah that's what I meant. Main shut off I guess. We didn't have an inside shut off or at least that's what the plumber said. He used those tools I described above.

One of these »www.wagerco.com/trumbull/page9&1···&10.html

He also added a shut off where supply came into the house while he was at it.


cdru
Go Colts
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join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to lutful

said by lutful:

*** Found official info. Water meter is supposed to be on the front wall of basement which includes that corner enclosure. But the recently installed radio transmitter is obviously outside since nobody came into the house.

The have a "remote reader" installed on the outside of your house. A remote reader is attached electronically to your indoor meter. This allows the water utility to install/repair/replace your transmitter as needed. The down side to this type of installation is that it's dependent on the connection to the meter to work. My parents had a basic non-RF remote reader (looked like an odometer) that didn't work accurately for 2 years before the water company sent a letter asking if the home was occupied. The actual meter indoors still was operating, but the connection was bad resulting in severely underreporting water consumption for those 2 years when the reader read the remote unit.

The other style of meter for RF reporting has the transmitter at the meter itself. It has a long-life battery (10+ years IIRC). It can easily be read by a passing vehicle collecting usage data and no chance of the unit having a bad connection not reporting data. However it required someone to be home for about a 1/2 hour to replace the old meter and install the new one. Plus someone to stop by once a decade to replace the battery. But that's still better then someone stopping by once a month like they use to for houses that didn't have a remote reader installed.