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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Mangix

Re: Security Flaws in Universal Plug-n-Play: Unplug, Don't Play

Gee, you must think everyone has new, or relatively new routers, to be telling them to flash them to WRT or something. My router will be 10 years old in October. It is vulnerable. Linksy has stated that all their older routers have the vulnerability. I don't want a new router because Linksy has been sold to Belkin (ugh) and I don't like Netgear, DLink, etc. I'll have to get a new router eventually whenever TWC finally turns on IPv6 and I am not looking forward to that day.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Mangix

join:2012-02-16
united state

dd-wrt has very wide hardware support. The original WRT54G is still supported by dd-wrt. Not sure what your router is though.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

Yes, it does have wide support but ONLY for newer routers. A lot of people have OLD routers. I got mine in 2003. The Oceanic TWC foreman has a Linksy router that is 12 years old...my friends have 7-10 year old routers. NONE of them are new enough to run third party software. Plus, you can't run it until your warranty (2-3 years) is over unless the word warranty is meaningless to you.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Frodo

join:2006-05-05
kudos:1

1 edit

said by Mele20:

A lot of people have OLD routers.

You could try a workaround. Someone in this thread said that the UPnP uses port 1900 UDP. So, one thing I would try is to port forward UDP 1900 in the router to a non-existent Lan IP, to some internal UPD port, say 65535 and run the test again to see if you're still vunerability.

Not saying it is going to work, but that would be the kind of thing I would try. If Linksys didn't intend the UPnP to work from the Lan Wan side, the port forward might be a way to bypass the vulnerability. Good luck.

edit: fix the side I was talking about

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

My problem is that I cannot access my router for years now. There is a bad bug that Linksy didn't bother telling about until us users stumbled on it and that was too late. I didn't insert the password TWICE on something...I have forgotten what exactly...that I was changing in the router interface and because I only inserted the password once (logical thing to do) and was not told to insert it again...that caused the router to create a RANDOM password and lock me out. I found lots of Linksy router users with the same problem...no password suggested in Linksy forums would unlock the random password.

So, I had beta firmware from Linksy Europe FTP server...never was offered in the USA because Linksy told me USA customers were too stupid to flash the beta firmware properly and too stupid to even understand they needed it. Linksy customer service was awful even when the router was new). Without the beta firmware, I can't use Ping Plotter Pro. I don't think I have a copy of the firmware on my old XP machine. So, I can't reset the router to factory default as then I can't use Ping Plotter Pro. I have to have this beta firmware. Plus, I don't want to mess with an old router resetting to factory default and then the various (this was the fifth beta firmware I installed) beta firmwares. It might kill the router or definitely mess up my network which has problems anyway and I don't need any more). Linksy was bad long before Cisco bought them. The Ping Plotter author and I both contacted them back then and they could care less...they didn't even suggest the beta firmware we found that allowed Ping Plotter to work with the router.

So, I can't turn off UPnP because I can't get into the router interface. I enabled it years ago for some Microsoft something that had to have it. Irony...huh?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



huh

@verizon.net
reply to Mele20

I have a ~10 year old linksys wrt54g v2 that is still supported by openwrt, ddwrt and tomato.

These days a router that supports ddwrt costs about $20. I would think in this case buying a new router would be better than keeping an old buggy one that's life has likely run its course. I mean $20 over 10-12 years? That's $2 a year and you get 802.11n support too.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

said by huh :

I have a ~10 year old linksys wrt54g v2 that is still supported by openwrt, ddwrt and tomato.

These days a router that supports ddwrt costs about $20. I would think in this case buying a new router would be better than keeping an old buggy one that's life has likely run its course. I mean $20 over 10-12 years? That's $2 a year and you get 802.11n support too.

Yeah...$20 and the shipping to Hawaii is $50.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16

Just take that Netgear WNR3500L you got from the SamKnows project, which they replaced with something else, and load Tomato, DD-WRT, or something else onto it: »www.myopenrouter.com/download/list

You've already got that router, it's just collecting dust unused right? SamKnows doesn't want it back and you don't like the Netgear firmware on it.
--
Two is one, one is none. If it's important, back it up... Somethimes 99.999% availability isn't even good enough.



Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
reply to Mele20

Never found a linksys router yet you could not reset it back to the factory setting with a toothpick in the hole in the bottom when it is on or a combination of special buttons..that will then let you back in again with the default password..or none at all. so what is your model number that is it so special ?

»pcsupport.about.com/od/linksys-d···word.htm


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to DrDrew

said by DrDrew:

Just take that Netgear WNR3500L you got from the SamKnows project, which they replaced with something else, and load Tomato, DD-WRT, or something else onto it: »www.myopenrouter.com/download/list

You've already got that router, it's just collecting dust unused right? SamKnows doesn't want it back and you don't like the Netgear firmware on it.

I guess it would be ok to do that. The original agreement with SK was that we would not be able to change the firmware on the Netgear until 3 years into the project which it has not been. (But they never asked for it back...still, I would need to get permission from them as they still could ask for both back when the testing ends. Plus, I don't have a converter plug for it because the TP-Link didn't come with one for USA electrical power (Neil sent me one that was lying around his office for him to test with as I was the first tester in the USA to get one of them) and he told me to just use the one for the Netgear as it would fit the TP-Link. So, I'd have to buy a converter plug that would fit it before I could try that and in Hilo...
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Name Game

You read too fast.

The problem is not resetting it. It is then flashing the beta firmware version I need to get Ping Plotter Pro to work with it.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2

A router reset does not alter FW at all.


Frodo

join:2006-05-05
kudos:1
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

You read too fast. ...

I must have read too fast too. Because, earlier, I thought I read, "My problem is that I cannot access my router for years now. ... So, I can't turn off UPnP because I can't get into the router interface."

And what I thought I just read was how to reset the password to a default, so that you could presumably log into the router and turn off the UPnP.

Them reading comprehension problems.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

I don't know how to put it more clearly. I cannot access the router's interface due to a nasty bug that reset my password long ago to an arbitrary one. Yes, I could reset the router to factory default and then I could get in its interface. BUT I can't use the router AT ALL unless it has beta firmware from Europe flashed and I can't currently access my old XP machine to try and find it ...it has an odd name for searching for it in a huge downloaded programs folder. Plus, even if I found it, I have a bad feeling about flashing a router this old with beta firmware. I don't even know if I would need to first flash 4 OLDER beta firmware versions before I would flash this one I need. (Do the beta firmware versions build upon the one before it or not? What about the actual released firmware versions since I got the router? Would I have to flash each of them and then the beta firmware versions)?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Frodo

join:2006-05-05
kudos:1

Then I guess your router is broke. Not old, but broke. If you're concerned about this UPnP thing, then you'll have to get a new one.

When I looked in my router's firewall log, other than the GRC scans, I didn't see any UPnP probing.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Yep. I would have to get a new router whenever my ISP implements IPv6 as my router has no idea what that is...it is that old. I would rather wait awhile (since my ISP has said nothing about when IPv6 will be implemented and also because I wanted to finish paying for my new computer first). Plus, I was always going to buy another Linksy (even though support on this one was not good ....but the router was good) but now Cisco has sold Linksy to Belkin I don't think I want a Linksy, but other brands don't interest me much either.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Frodo

said by Frodo:

Then I guess your router is broke. Not old, but broke. If you're concerned about this UPnP thing, then you'll have to get a new one.

Maybe not. I just read the Defense Code paper. My router does not have a Broadcom chip. The chip is a Kendin Ks8695. I doubt it is vulnerable. Linksy should list which ones of theirs are vulnerable. I doubt that any Linksy routers so old that DD-WRT firmware cannot be made to work on them are vulnerable.

On an ironic note, I now remember that it was my activating UPnP in the router that caused the nasty bug to trigger that set a random password. I stumbled on the threads at Linksy just now and decided to again try the passwords users say are what the router sets when it sets a "random" one (and that worked for some users but not others). They didn't work on Fx but I thought, what the heck, I'll try on IE as one has a character that evidently the browser adds...so I did that and IE popped a Security Warning that the Linksy User Name and Password would be transmitted as plain text
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

I don't know how to put it more clearly. I cannot access the router's interface due to a nasty bug that reset my password long ago to an arbitrary one. Yes, I could reset the router to factory default and then I could get in its interface. BUT I can't use the router AT ALL unless it has beta firmware from Europe flashed and I can't currently access my old XP machine to try and find it ...it has an odd name for searching for it in a huge downloaded programs folder. Plus, even if I found it, I have a bad feeling about flashing a router this old with beta firmware. I don't even know if I would need to first flash 4 OLDER beta firmware versions before I would flash this one I need. (Do the beta firmware versions build upon the one before it or not? What about the actual released firmware versions since I got the router? Would I have to flash each of them and then the beta firmware versions)?

Of course not.. hard reset it to factory setting and then put on what you like. each beta is not stacked.

»www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Re···ad_Flash

»www.idealinternet.co.uk/restore-···ware.tpl
--
Gladiator Security Forum
»www.gladiator-antivirus.com/


trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

Mele20 See Profile, Linksys routers themselves are great routers. Yeah, their customer support as you put it, sucks. But who cares, as long as the router works it's fine.

I have the Linksys E3200 router. It's running TomatoUSB ToastMan's Edition. It has more features that you can shake a stick at! WAN and LAN side bandwidth monitoring is one such feature. The firmware's always up to date since the guy is releasing firmware on a weekly basis (that's good!) and a very lively community behind it on LinksysInfo.org.

I doubt that Belkin will change the Linksys products at the moment. Remember... they just signed the deal. Integration of the company is barely done, product lines have yet to be merged. There's still a lot of Linksys E-Series routers out there. Grab one while you still can.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)



planet

join:2001-11-05
Oz
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cox HSI

List of effected Linksys routers:

Linksys Products Impacted
The following devices have been confirmed as impacted by this vulnerability:

1. E900
2. E1200 v2
3. E1000 v2.1
4. E1500
5. M10 v2
6. WRT610N v1
7. WRT610N v2

The following devices have been confirmed as NOT IMPACTED by this vulnerability:

1. E2500
2. RE1000
3. E1000 v2
4. E1000 v1
5. E1200 v1
6. E1550
7. E3200
8. E4200
9. M10 v1
10. M20
11. WRT160N v3
12. WRT310N v2
13. All EA series

Found here:
»homekb.cisco.com/Cisco2/ukp.aspx···id=28341

Figures my E1500 is effected. I've always disabled UPnP on my router anyway but if I ever want to play games online with my xbox, I may need to.



trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

»www.4shared.com/file/7shFFAB3/to···012.html
That should get you secured. That's a third-party firmware file for the E1500.



Bill_MI
Bill In Michigan
Premium,MVM
join:2001-01-03
Royal Oak, MI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..

2 edits
reply to planet

said by planet:

Figures my E1500 is effected. I've always disabled UPnP on my router anyway but if I ever want to play games online with my xbox, I may need to.

Hi planet. I'm really curious and Linksys is no help.

The problem is 2-fold. 1) UPnP code is exploitable. 2) UPnP services are exposed to the net (WAN) interface. This is specifically what the GRC scan looks for.

1) isn't good but it's DOUBLE HORRIBLE if you also have 2).

Anyone daring, enable UPnP and see if the »grc.com ShieldsUp! scan detects it. I'm thinking no. This means it's just bad but not horrible.

EDIT: There's a giant leap of vulnerability between 1) and 2). Reports are in that there's active scanning from many sources, for item 2) at this time so don't be feeding the bad guys unnecessarily if you don't have good recovery techniques.


norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback


I'm starting to wonder what exactly needs to be in place to stop this, I'm thinking the GRC site is not a valued test for this.



DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:16

2 edits
reply to Mele20

The WNR3500L takes a pretty standard 12vdc 1a power plug. Available for under $10 with free shipping even to Hawaii at a few sites I checked.

You could also reset your router, if you ever wanted to. You won't lose the version of firmware on it. Linksys doesn't do that, you'd have to open the router and jumper a couple of chip pins to wipe the firmware.

If you want the beta firmware for your old router, look here: »/r0/down···code.zip It's BEFSR41V3_v1.06.05_000_code.bin if anything that should give you a file name to search for on your XP machine.

It was posted on this thread, 7 years ago:
»Re: [ENG] TM402P reset
--
Two is one, one is none. If it's important, back it up... Somethimes 99.999% availability isn't even good enough.