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diablo1892
R.I.P. Donald Lee Wise

join:2011-04-21
Friendly, WV
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[News Flash] Valve sued by German consumer group

»www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/01/valve···l-games/

I got a better idea.. Trade! ... Oh wait, steam seems to already have that option(:


Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5
quote:
The Federation of German Consumer Organizations (VZVB) is suing Valve over Steam’s refusal to let users resell their games. According to Carola Elbrecht, the VZVB’s project manager for digital consumer rights, Steam users should be given the same rights as owners of traditional board games – allowed to sell their used copies on at will.

The VZVB’s complaint is that purchased games are tied to a user’s Steam account, with no option to transfer the license to a third-party. The organisation also notes that, for those games that use Steamworks, it makes no difference whether a game was purchased online or as physical media, as either way the game is locked to a Steam account on installation.

The lawsuit follows a cease-and-desist order the company issued to Valve back in September. That action was prompted by not only the resale issue, but also in response to the updated Steam Subscriber Agreement, which prohibited class-action suits against the company.

The consumer group have attempted to sue Valve over game reselling before, but the case was dismissed by the German Federal Court of Justice in 2010. However, back in July, the The Court of Justice of the European Union ruled that the trading of “used” software licenses was legal, and the VZVB are hoping that this lends credence to their case.

Of course, Valve aren’t alone in this practice. No digital distributor offers the option to sell on your used licenses to a third-party. Elbrecht says that, while Valve are the target, the suit is meant to serve as a signal to other distributors that operate the same way.


I AM
Premium
join:2010-04-11
Ephrata, PA
kudos:4
Interesting.


C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ
reply to diablo1892
Steam only offers trading of in-game items for some games... and not many.

I know some who would definitely wish they could resell or trade said games. Even moreso on the consoles.
--
Because, f*ck Sony

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to diablo1892
It would be cool for that to happen, but I wonder how they would do it? Let users trade games from their libraries, or sell them back to for $5 on $60 games like gamestop does?


I AM
Premium
join:2010-04-11
Ephrata, PA
kudos:4
I don't see it happening. Aren't some games restricted by the publishers itself that you cannot sell the license you get with it?

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
I believe so, yes, but thats not gonna stop people from blaming valve/steam.


I AM
Premium
join:2010-04-11
Ephrata, PA
kudos:4
If so, Valve is LOLing at them 'cause Valve is about to make some monies!

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
I'd be okay with that, while I would like to be able to trade/sell games I wont play again its not right to blame valve for this all. They only have legal control over their own games even if they made it so theirs could be they couldn't force everyone else to do so. Yet people blame them for it 100%, which I don't think is right.


diablo1892
R.I.P. Donald Lee Wise

join:2011-04-21
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said by me1212:

I'd be okay with that, while I would like to be able to trade/sell games I wont play again its not right to blame valve for this all. They only have legal control over their own games even if they made it so theirs could be they couldn't force everyone else to do so. Yet people blame them for it 100%, which I don't think is right.

Very true.. However your opinion above ain't a bad idea neither "or sell them back to for $5 on $60 games like gamestop does?" and like they always say you buy what you get but steam and gamestop work together. Certain games like blizzards are built into your blizzard account forever and never can be traded, sold off to others or even sold back to the official company you bought it from.

My advice is, you can give it back to them and get nothing in return or just deal with it or you could trade.. The choice is yours.

I seen some posts on the link I provided and seen some have mentioned it will end up ripping off steam, thats very true because it becomes world wide witch means everyone in the world can just sell there games back but then again you gotta also think of the retail versions.. Once you open the disc case and had already touched the disc's it belongs to you now, you can't sell it back unless its still packaged and sealed.
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I AM
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join:2010-04-11
Ephrata, PA
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1 issue with console games and some PC games is that with some PC titles it is account bound. You're not buying a game you're buying a license to set up an account. For example WoW. You're not buying the disc you're buying an account. You can't sell back that account. The content of the game or discs mean little to nothing.

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
Maybe they'll just be able to sell the account as a whole soon.


Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5
reply to diablo1892
I couldn't give two shits if they do or don't allow trading of downloadable games. I have no intention of trading or selling any games.

I imagine the reason most peope would trade or sell a game is because of it being crappy. Who would want it anyway?


Dissembled

join:2008-01-23
Indianapolis, IN
reply to diablo1892
I'd just be happy if they had some type of "Buyer's Remorse" system. They log how many hours you put on a game already. Maybe you could return a game with less than 4? 6? 8? hours on it for 60%, 70% of the cost.


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
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join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
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reply to Ghastlyone
Bunch of idiots, it doesn't work that way.


I AM
Premium
join:2010-04-11
Ephrata, PA
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said by Krisnatharok:

Bunch of idiots, it doesn't work that way.

That's what I'm saying. Valve is about to make some easy money.


El Quintron
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reply to diablo1892
Meh... it's a licensing issue, as much as I disagree there isn't a whole lot Valve can do, because that's how PC games go these days.

Message to consumers: buy DRM-Free games you're allowed to re-sell?
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jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

1 recommendation

Second message to consumer: Just because you used to be able to do something in the past doesn't make it your God-given fundamental right forever and ever in every similar situation.

Things change.


I AM
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Its ok. This funds Steam/Valve and because of this we get more Steam Sales.


diablo1892
R.I.P. Donald Lee Wise

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Thats another thing, will this make steam do away with the weekend deals, holiday deals and the "play for free untill bla bla" or maybe think of doing something different?
If this happens then i say thank you germany for ruining steam! Althought its not ruining it but I thought there normal deals were pretty sweet so I think they should'nt do away with them, I say keep it!


El Quintron
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reply to jester121
said by jester121:

Things change.

And not necessarily for the better, I agree with claims that buying something should allow me to resell it, I just don't think Valve is to blame for the circumstances that don't allow me to resell it.
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jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
It's the age old notion of licensing -- you aren't buying the product, you're buying a license to use the product subject to certain terms and conditions. Now, one of those terms has changed, in that your license is non-transferrable, similar to how you're not permitted to disassemble a PC and sell the OEM Windows license.


El Quintron
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said by jester121:

It's the age old notion of licensing -- you aren't buying the product, you're buying a license to use the product subject to certain terms and conditions. Now, one of those terms has changed, in that your license is non-transferrable, similar to how you're not permitted to disassemble a PC and sell the OEM Windows license.

Those rules may or may not be valid in Germany... which is why this suit is going ahead. I know Canada has some exceptions for that OEM rule you quoted above.
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Cthen

join:2004-08-01
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2 edits
reply to diablo1892
said by diablo1892:

Thats another thing, will this make steam do away with the weekend deals, holiday deals and the "play for free untill bla bla" or maybe think of doing something different?
If this happens then i say thank you germany for ruining steam! Althought its not ruining it but I thought there normal deals were pretty sweet so I think they should'nt do away with them, I say keep it!

Maybe in Germany (too bad for them) but their laws do not apply to the rest of the world. Ever wonder why people from over that way are willing to pay more than the face value for various pre-paid cards for various services from Ebay over here? It's because their rules over there don't apply to the other countries.

EDIT: Come to think of it, if I was gamer from there, I would be very weary of what these "lawyers" are trying to pull off here. They could in the end seriously end up screwing their gamers they say they must be representing in this.
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El Quintron
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reply to diablo1892
said by diablo1892:

If this happens then i say thank you germany for ruining steam! Althought its not ruining it but I thought there normal deals were pretty sweet so I think they should'nt do away with them, I say keep it!

I doubt German consumer protection law would affect Steam customers outside of Germany much, considering Steam already has a separate pricing scheme for Australia, I think they would just implement a Steam catalog that would meet German consumer protection requirements, and would only be availabe for Germany.

It might even require as little as a bit of legal jargon on purchase that says: by buying this agree that the consumer protection laws of X country are in effect.
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aelingil
Mmm Burnt Toast
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join:2008-10-22
Mesa, AZ
reply to diablo1892
This is why i would be a bad CEO in a company like this.. I would tell them to pull any server connection to Germany.. Anyone that tried to connect would get a link to the lawsuit and explained "until this is settled, we cannot do business with Germany."


Xioden
Premium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1
"Sorry access to steam has been disabled for Germany due to pending litigation by [group name here].

This is what you could be seeing if [group name here] is successful. [Explaination of [group name here]'s actions here].

[Contact information for [group name here] to voice your opinion of this matter]

Click [here link here] to proceed about your business as usual."

Sort of like a lot of websites did to protest SOPA/PIPA.

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to aelingil
I'd do it too man.


fnord76
Elder God
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Troy, IL
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reply to diablo1892
But then you start getting messages popping up everywhere like you see with the cable operaters and the broadcasters and that is annoying.


TigerLord
UEE Citizen
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join:2002-06-09
Canada
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1 recommendation

reply to diablo1892
I love Germans. I miss living there.

They have a very strong pro-consumer approach and aren't afraid to sue the big players.