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BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to Zoder

Re: Nasty

The incentive to own your own MCE PC is pretty big when you can scale it out to 6 simultaneous users and 12 tuners for the price of two additional cable cards. That's way cheaper than crappy Comcast boxes, and most people would only need 4 or 8 tuners.

Also, these things are useless in the first place, as TV without a DVR... what's the point?

As for extra sets... just use MCE for the whole house, and throw a used XBOX with any extra TVs.

Also, there is no big scam to stop people from using CableCards... very, very few people do. They are pretty nice about them, and helpful when getting a self-install CableCard, at least IMO. And, they support ONDemand on TiVos on Moto systems, because then they make a crapton of money off of rentals. They would support it on SA systems if they could figure out how to accept IP input to the VOD system.

They did get rid of the remote control fee... that one was especially egregious, as you couldn't return the remote and not pay the fee, even if you had your own universal remote control.

DVRs don't cost $1200. That's absurd. Even a TiVo with Lifetime, which is a far more capable machine than an RNG200M or DCX3400M, which are Comcast's top Cisco and Moto boxes, respectively, costs less than $1k with a Lifetime subscription.

The "outlet" fees are just disguised box fees, one way or another. It has nothing to do with physical outlets. Heck, with MCE7 you could be running 6 TVs off of one or two "outlets". But they do have the analog cable thing back under control from when people were hooking up a ton of TVs to one subscription and not getting any more revenue for Comcast.


alexintexas

join:2003-01-11
San Antonio, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

building an MCE PC is an excellent idea but in the tuners in your configuration is $1200 alone. to run those cards you need a top of the line pc thats another $1200 not to mention a pc or xbox at each tv as i have stated its an excellent idea but initial upfront cost is just well alot for your avg consumer

tivo???? LOL yes $400 for the box then pay $15. a month to be able to use it monthly or $400 for lifetime use thats min $800 or pay termination fees on the monthly, or pay more money for the boxes upfront and pay $20 a month to utilize it to avoid termination charges. and guess what if the cable co goes to ip based, your tivo is FUCKED!!!!! and useless


Zoder

join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL

1 edit
reply to BiggA

said by BiggA:

The incentive to own your own MCE PC is pretty big when you can scale it out to 6 simultaneous users and 12 tuners for the price of two additional cable cards. That's way cheaper than crappy Comcast boxes, and most people would only need 4 or 8 tuners.

Also, these things are useless in the first place, as TV without a DVR... what's the point?

As for extra sets... just use MCE for the whole house, and throw a used XBOX with any extra TVs.

Also, there is no big scam to stop people from using CableCards... very, very few people do. They are pretty nice about them, and helpful when getting a self-install CableCard, at least IMO. And, they support ONDemand on TiVos on Moto systems, because then they make a crapton of money off of rentals. They would support it on SA systems if they could figure out how to accept IP input to the VOD system.

They did get rid of the remote control fee... that one was especially egregious, as you couldn't return the remote and not pay the fee, even if you had your own universal remote control.

DVRs don't cost $1200. That's absurd. Even a TiVo with Lifetime, which is a far more capable machine than an RNG200M or DCX3400M, which are Comcast's top Cisco and Moto boxes, respectively, costs less than $1k with a Lifetime subscription.

The "outlet" fees are just disguised box fees, one way or another. It has nothing to do with physical outlets. Heck, with MCE7 you could be running 6 TVs off of one or two "outlets". But they do have the analog cable thing back under control from when people were hooking up a ton of TVs to one subscription and not getting any more revenue for Comcast.

That's something someone who frequents dslreports would do. I'm talking about the average American cable customer.

The point I'm trying to make is that they make more money when you rent their box. The FCC has tried to encourage COE by forcing the cable companies to issue a credit for the STB rental price. Comcast has found a loophole by making most of the STB rental price consist of this "digital outlet" fee so they could issue as little a credit as possible. The DTA price breakout exposes that.

There was a reason Comcast would not charge you per outlet for cableready tvs. It was outlawed in the early 90s. The move to digital has allowed them to resurrect a decades old fee.

Zoder

join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL
reply to alexintexas

said by alexintexas:

building an MCE PC is an excellent idea but in the tuners in your configuration is $1200 alone. to run those cards you need a top of the line pc thats another $1200 not to mention a pc or xbox at each tv as i have stated its an excellent idea but initial upfront cost is just well alot for your avg consumer

A 4 tuner ceton card costs $200 right now on Amazon. Which equipment are you looking at?

alexintexas

join:2003-01-11
San Antonio, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

said by Zoder:

A 4 tuner ceton card costs $200 right now on Amazon. Which equipment are you looking at?

your correct but still $400 in upfront costs imagine what manufacturers would charge to build an MCE pc and you still need a high end pc for this not to mention 4 cable lines and 4 cable cards. and again if the cable co moves to ip based those cards are useless this is the reason i have not done this

Zoder

join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL

Actually you don't need 4 cablecards per Ceton. Only 1 M-card.

Also one line. Same way Comcast's Dvr has 2 tuners but only one line. The card tunes in to multiple channels on the one line.


BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to alexintexas

Over 48 months, and compared to equivalent Comcast equipment, Windows MCE beats renting stuff from Comcast by a significant margin for anything between 1 and the full 6 rooms support by MCE. For a 5 room setup, over 48 months, MCE is $1380 cheaper, and it gets even more significant for more than 5 rooms, although you do lose a bit if you go to 8 tuners, as you'd be spending another $336 over 48 months for that CableCard (unless you just do ClearQAM tuners). The problem is that most people don't seem to be willing to run the calculations to understand what the true costs/benefits are of different options. Cable companies aren't going to IP-based video anytime soon. The next step for them is to continue to use linear 256-QAM, but with MPEG-4AVC or HEVC. With HEVC, they could do 8 HD's per QAM with the equivalent quality of FIOS's 2 HD's per QAM.

@Zoder: There are options out there. Just because people don't take advantage of them is their own fault.

We are way past the days of plugging analog TVs with VCRs in. HD and DVR functionality is a core part of watching TV now, as is OnDemand in many cases (although I don't care, since I'd rather own my own and control my own DVR).

Just for comparison's sake, my HTPC that I got up and running this past week was $908 not including Windows 7, but including all the hardware for the PC, the Ceton quad tuner, remote, and keyboard/trackpad thingy. It's a Core i3 with 8GB of ram, a 120GB SSD, and a 3TB hard drive. It's also got a pretty nice case and PSU. It would be deal silent if I replaced the stock Intel cooler. It's probably overpowered for MCE, but I wanted a Core i-series processor.

@alexintexas: You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. My Core i3 machine has one cablecard, one cable line, 4 tuners, and it's putting over 90% of it's CPU power towards F@H even when I'm watching TV and playing with the DVR functionality.

CableCards cannot be blocked. The DRM flags that some cable co's use still allow extenders to stream the content.

DVRs are legal and here to stay, and DISH will ultimately win with the commercial skipping technology, and it will hopefully be rolled out to work with all channels, and by more providers.

The content providers are utterly clueless and are scared of new technology like many other industries that have taken a long time to adapt. Look at the CBS/CNET/Dish debacle. CBS is clueless. The fact of the matter is that DVRs are here to stay, and no matter how much content providers hate them, they will continue to be more and more ubiquitous, at least as long as content is linearly delivered over cable/satellite.


alexintexas

join:2003-01-11
San Antonio, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

said by BiggA:

I replaced the stock Intel cooler. It's probably overpowered for MCE, but I wanted a Core i-series processor.

@alexintexas: You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. My Core i3 machine has one cablecard, one cable line, 4 tuners, and it's putting over 90% of it's CPU power towards F@H even when I'm watching TV and playing with the DVR functionality.

two questions
1. are you using the cpu graphics?
2. curious here, after 12hr of utilizing constant 90% cpu on the aftermarket cooler, what are the cpu temps?

said by BiggA:

CableCards cannot be blocked. The DRM flags that some cable co's use still allow extenders to stream the content.

i never said or mentioned anything about streaming

said by BiggA:

The content providers are utterly clueless and are scared of new technology

nope wrong!

Its all about ad revenue the content providers are not going to generate ad revenue on even a Google/Youtube model with 85% of there content is reruns of everything out there, so the actual content that is made new is what would be bringing in some $$$ not enough to go around and much less the current amount of profit being generated. they know this. So yes they are stuck.

netflix you say, yes they make little money, however how much can/do they make in ad revenue on those reruns vs profits from netflix, having 30 different pay streaming services simply is not going to work either, they also know all this.

Google/Youtube,,,i have said this in another thread. youtube has grown so fast and continues to grow = more viewership = more ad revenue = lost ad revenue for all the content providers and the more they grow the more they lose, this is what the content providers fear on top of youtube is growing by leaps and bounds and pay $0 for any content offered yet youtube is winning

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Honestly, I haven't checked temps. I don't care, as the Core i-Series will shut themselves down if they're too hot, and the motherboard automatically manages the fan speed. As long as it's below the 70 or 80C that's the max for the CPU, I'm good. I used to run a P4 at 78C all summer, with it's max spec'ed temp at 80C, so I don't have an issue with hot CPUs. I am using the stock Intel cooler, which is why the machine currently isn't silent, but it is pretty quiet.

You said you can't record copy protected content, which is factually wrong. You can, and you can stream it. You just can't copy it to another machine on the network.

The thing is, the content providers are digging their heads into the sand. They have continued to push ridiculous price increases and massive, bloated channel bundles just to get a few key channels (i.e. all the garbage ABC/Disney channels just to get ESPN). Now they are fixated on ads. The more and more they try to cling to old models, the more people will move their eyeball time to other media, dump cable all-together or pirate stuff. They are pushing towards a tipping point, and at this rate, they are going to take the Comcasts of the world down with them. It's unfortunate that Comcast, DISH, DirecTV, AT&T, Verizon, and others couldn't form a coalition to set the prices they are willing to pay for the content and beat the networks into submission, as thats what the networks and content conglomerates need right now. Until the MSOs get control of the skyrocketing content cost, cable and satellite prices are going to continue to be completely absurd. Heck, Comcast alone, as the largest MSO, should grow a pair, pull a Charlie Ergen and start naming their prices. They have the power of the subscribers to beat the networks down into submission. Of course it's a lot harder now that they merged with NBC Universal.


alexintexas

join:2003-01-11
San Antonio, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

said by BiggA:

You said you can't record copy protected content, which is factually wrong. You can, and you can stream it. You just can't copy it to another machine on the network.

no i said cable companies are flagging x-channel at the request of x-content provider to disable recording on pc tuners and even tivos, not on cable co dvr, so say i have a centon or even a tivo say fox does not want my market to record to my dvr they send the flag request to the cable co. thus all cable cards (cable dvr's excluded) in my market would be blocked from recording fox.


Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by alexintexas:

no i said cable companies are flagging x-channel at the request of x-content provider to disable recording on pc tuners and even tivos, not on cable co dvr, so say i have a centon or even a tivo say fox does not want my market to record to my dvr they send the flag request to the cable co. thus all cable cards (cable dvr's excluded) in my market would be blocked from recording fox.

Cable companies are not allowed to disable recordings. It is illegal to flag anything other than On Demand programming as not being recordable (CCI 0x03). It is also illegal to flag local broadcast channels as not copyable (CCI 0x02).

If your cable company is flagging said programs, report them to the FCC.

Note: not copyable (0x02) is not the same as not recordable (0x03). The former can be recorded, but can't be copied off the device that recorded them. The later can be temporarily recorded, but most be automatically deleted within 90 minutes of the program ending.
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