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JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
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reply to El Quintron

Re: Voltage - still no cease and desist letter?

said by El Quintron:

said by JMJimmy:

The result of the case was that you can't "assign" copyrights like that without transferring the full rights. If you sue and lose you lose your copyright as well - they lost everything though their entire database ended up being worth $0 at auction.

I truly hope history repeats itself, but having worked in the content industry for a couple of years, I can tell you that shell games are a forte in the industry, so there's no reason they won't be trotting out Rightraven 2.0 this time around.

The laws are quite specific about it in Canada to prevent that type of situation. There can be only 1 author of a work. Individual interests may have claims on revenue from that work but there's only 1 who has ownership/copyright of a work and they are the ones with standing to sue. I honestly believe in at least 3-4 of the works cited Voltage is committing fraud by claiming they are the rights holders. (Example: The Magic of Belle Isle for which the copyright is held by BCDF Pictures)


El Quintron
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reply to JMJimmy

said by JMJimmy:

The result of the case was that you can't "assign" copyrights like that without transferring the full rights. If you sue and lose you lose your copyright as well - they lost everything though their entire database ended up being worth $0 at auction.

I truly hope history repeats itself, but having worked in the content industry for a couple of years, I can tell you that shell games are a forte in the industry, so there's no reason they won't be trotting out Rightraven 2.0 this time around.
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JMJimmy

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reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

said by JMJimmy:

Ask how well that worked for Righthaven.

Point being, Rightraven (or it's Canadian incarnation) takes all the risk, and the real copyright holder gets to continue without being bound by any judgement.

It may have been a poor attempt, but the actual content owners get to fight another day.

The result of the case was that you can't "assign" copyrights like that without transferring the full rights. If you sue and lose you lose your copyright as well - they lost everything though their entire database ended up being worth $0 at auction.


El Quintron
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reply to JMJimmy

said by JMJimmy:

Ask how well that worked for Righthaven.

Point being, Rightraven (or it's Canadian incarnation) takes all the risk, and the real copyright holder gets to continue without being bound by any judgement.

It may have been a poor attempt, but the actual content owners get to fight another day.
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abcjak

join:2012-12-18
reply to JMJimmy

I forget if i asked here or mentioned it to a friend, but if logless vpn's and proxies are available, why can't an ISP operate the same manner or partner up with such a business and offer a combined in-house type service for a nominal add-on fee?


JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
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reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

said by hm :

This is a possibility. But it wouldn't be a wise one. The courts themselves would see it for what it is, which i'm sure they don't want.

If they had to go again, they could just license the rights out to a 3rd party corporation in order to litigate, and yeah the judge would see through it, but seeing as another party was litigating they couldn't be accused of gaming the system.

Ask how well that worked for Righthaven.


El Quintron
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reply to hm

said by hm :

This is a possibility. But it wouldn't be a wise one. The courts themselves would see it for what it is, which i'm sure they don't want.

If they had to go again, they could just license the rights out to a 3rd party corporation in order to litigate, and yeah the judge would see through it, but seeing as another party was litigating they couldn't be accused of gaming the system.
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shepd

join:2004-01-17
Kitchener, ON
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reply to abcjak

said by abcjak:

This is exactly what i was saying to a co-worker. His point was "who cares about the Voltage situation and the case because their movies are crappy" He is so short sighted and said it so smugly it made me angry. Don't you think other music/movie/software companies are watching this and most likely taking some early steps at setting up to be next in line if Voltage get's a win in any sense?

Ask him why he thinks that if the movie is of higher quality it deserves less "protection" than a movie of lower quality? Yeah, I mean it that way around. Obviously, if he will only complain about litigation on a high quality movie, he means only high quality movies are deserving of some free piracy.

abcjak

join:2012-12-18
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

We don't know if the MPAA is shoveling money to Voltage in order to fund the case against these 'evil' Canadians.

It wouldn't surprise me if this was happening. What's $500k-$1MM in legal costs now in order to open up Canada to wild west extortion in perpetuity by US interests? Think the long game people.

This is exactly what i was saying to a co-worker. His point was "who cares about the Voltage situation and the case because their movies are crappy" He is so short sighted and said it so smugly it made me angry. Don't you think other music/movie/software companies are watching this and most likely taking some early steps at setting up to be next in line if Voltage get's a win in any sense?


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

said by hm :

heh they aren't going bankrupt. Also if they win, they can show the court the costs it took to get this far, thus it won't be a lousy 100$ payout per person as some are saying. Or that will be another fight and they will drag people to court to recoup costs.

I don't get nor understand why you think they will auto lose and go broke...

It's all in the approach they took, they entered this as a fishing expedition, now they're looking at a court battle, with a $5000 cap on damages, I'm aware that they're trying to show commercial damages, but the burden of proof for this will be much higher, and they're already being kneecapped out of the door, with CIPPIC being granted intervenor status.

The success of this endeavor relied on getting these letters out as quickly as possible, with little time given to potential defendants to prepare, that's all gone now, so they have no other option but to begin an expensive court battle, which I doubt they'll do.

Law of diminishing returns...

I'd like to think that Voltage and their **AA allies are a psychotic Captain Ahab like construct that would gladly rush headlong into and sheer destruction, but they aren't.

What's most likely going to happen is that they're going to drop this, and try again with a different approach, and different IPs later on.

This is a possibility. But it wouldn't be a wise one. The courts themselves would see it for what it is, which i'm sure they don't want.


El Quintron
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reply to hm

said by hm :

heh they aren't going bankrupt. Also if they win, they can show the court the costs it took to get this far, thus it won't be a lousy 100$ payout per person as some are saying. Or that will be another fight and they will drag people to court to recoup costs.

I don't get nor understand why you think they will auto lose and go broke...

It's all in the approach they took, they entered this as a fishing expedition, now they're looking at a court battle, with a $5000 cap on damages, I'm aware that they're trying to show commercial damages, but the burden of proof for this will be much higher, and they're already being kneecapped out of the door, with CIPPIC being granted intervenor status.

The success of this endeavor relied on getting these letters out as quickly as possible, with little time given to potential defendants to prepare, that's all gone now, so they have no other option but to begin an expensive court battle, which I doubt they'll do.

Law of diminishing returns...

I'd like to think that Voltage and their **AA allies are a psychotic Captain Ahab like construct that would gladly rush headlong into and sheer destruction, but they aren't.

What's most likely going to happen is that they're going to drop this, and try again with a different approach, and different IPs later on.
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MaynardKrebs
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reply to hm

said by hm :

said by El Quintron:

said by hm :

I'm not sure what will happen, but... It's in their best interest to go ahead with everything.

*If* they win and can get the names it's going to legitimize both canipre and the bs info, and *any* trolling (not just voltages trolling).

They're between a rock and a hard place:

They can either retract, save their own asses from bankruptcy, and destroy the copyright troll model in Canada pretty much forever, or they can go ahead with this, lose everything, and the copyright trolls claim some kind of moral victory, and hope to troll another day.

Things be pretty bleak for Voltage and Canpire ATM though.

heh they aren't going bankrupt. Also if they win, they can show the court the costs it took to get this far, thus it won't be a lousy 100$ payout per person as some are saying. Or that will be another fight and they will drag people to court to recoup costs.

I don't get nor understand why you think they will auto lose and go broke...

It's in their best interest to press ahead if they want to try and make money at this. For both companies and a business model.

We don't know if the MPAA is shoveling money to Voltage in order to fund the case against these 'evil' Canadians.

It wouldn't surprise me if this was happening. What's $500k-$1MM in legal costs now in order to open up Canada to wild west extortion in perpetuity by US interests? Think the long game people.


TwiztedZero
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reply to WaitForGodot

Only major fallout is the U.S. is now being pressured to throw Canada back on their "Watch List" again.

This may be indirectly related to the discussions at hand.

Re: Michael Geist. Thursday February 14, 2013
The IIPA, the umbrella lobby group that represents the major movie, music, and entertainment software lobby groups, released its recommendations for the U.S. piracy watch list last week. Those that thought passing Bill C-11 - the Canadian copyright reform bill that contained some of the most restrictive digital lock rules in the world - would satisfy U.S. groups will be disappointed. The IIPA wants Canada back on the piracy watch list, one notch below the Special Watch List (where the US placed Canada last year).

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WaitForGodot

join:2009-01-07
reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

Considering the amount of resistance they're getting thus far, I'm sure they're factoring this into their ROI calculations.

I'm still of the mindset that Voltage went into this purely as a fishing expedition, and not with intent to litigate. Now that they're being forced to either litigate or GTFO, they're probably going back to the drawing board or looking for an out ASAP.

... which basically kills their (extortion) Business Model !!


El Quintron
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reply to WaitForGodot

said by WaitForGodot:

Question:
If these trolls run, can they be sued for bringing frivolous and vexatious lawsuits and receive legal censure here in Canada ?? I am sure it happens all the time in the litigious South.

Considering the amount of resistance they're getting thus far, I'm sure they're factoring this into their ROI calculations.

I'm still of the mindset that Voltage went into this purely as a fishing expedition, and not with intent to litigate. Now that they're being forced to either litigate or GTFO, they're probably going back to the drawing board or looking for an out ASAP.
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WaitForGodot

join:2009-01-07
reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

said by hm :

I'm not sure what will happen, but... It's in their best interest to go ahead with everything.

*If* they win and can get the names it's going to legitimize both canipre and the bs info, and *any* trolling (not just voltages trolling).

They're between a rock and a hard place:

They can either retract, save their own asses from bankruptcy, and destroy the copyright troll model in Canada pretty much forever, or they can go ahead with this, lose everything, and the copyright trolls claim some kind of moral victory, and hope to troll another day.

Things be pretty bleak for Voltage and Canpire ATM though.

Question:
If these trolls run, can they be sued for bringing frivolous and vexatious lawsuits and receive legal censure here in Canada ?? I am sure it happens all the time in the litigious South.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

said by hm :

I'm not sure what will happen, but... It's in their best interest to go ahead with everything.

*If* they win and can get the names it's going to legitimize both canipre and the bs info, and *any* trolling (not just voltages trolling).

They're between a rock and a hard place:

They can either retract, save their own asses from bankruptcy, and destroy the copyright troll model in Canada pretty much forever, or they can go ahead with this, lose everything, and the copyright trolls claim some kind of moral victory, and hope to troll another day.

Things be pretty bleak for Voltage and Canpire ATM though.

heh they aren't going bankrupt. Also if they win, they can show the court the costs it took to get this far, thus it won't be a lousy 100$ payout per person as some are saying. Or that will be another fight and they will drag people to court to recoup costs.

I don't get nor understand why you think they will auto lose and go broke...

It's in their best interest to press ahead if they want to try and make money at this. For both companies and a business model.


El Quintron
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reply to hm

said by hm :

I'm not sure what will happen, but... It's in their best interest to go ahead with everything.

*If* they win and can get the names it's going to legitimize both canipre and the bs info, and *any* trolling (not just voltages trolling).

They're between a rock and a hard place:

They can either retract, save their own asses from bankruptcy, and destroy the copyright troll model in Canada pretty much forever, or they can go ahead with this, lose everything, and the copyright trolls claim some kind of moral victory, and hope to troll another day.

Things be pretty bleak for Voltage and Canpire ATM though.
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hm

@videotron.ca
reply to sbrook

said by sbrook:

Yup, and you can expect Konrad von F's ruling on music sharing to go down in flames too.

Indeedy.

And what will happen?

Tens of thousands of people will all blame CIPPIC and Teksavvy.

Not that we are putting any pressure on anyone... That's just the way the diced rolled.


sbrook
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join:2001-12-14
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reply to hm

Yup, and you can expect Konrad von F's ruling on music sharing to go down in flames too.



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

Haha, sweet... Bye bye, copytrolls, methinks.

I'm not sure what will happen, but... It's in their best interest to go ahead with everything.

*If* they win and can get the names it's going to legitimize both canipre and the bs info, and *any* trolling (not just voltages trolling).

MaynardKrebs
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to TwiztedZero

said by TwiztedZero:

said by MaynardKrebs:

It was strapped to the leg of the last carrier pigeon.
Musta got lost.

Voltage doesn't have "carrier pigeons" I think they tried to use vultures but they couldn't get any accross the border.

My bad.


TwiztedZero
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reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

It was strapped to the leg of the last carrier pigeon.
Musta got lost.

Voltage doesn't have "carrier pigeons" I think they tried to use vultures but they couldn't get any accross the border.


creed3020
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reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

It was strapped to the leg of the last carrier pigeon.
Musta got lost.

Must have fallen into the same volcano that is being used to "cleanse" evidence of downloaded files on the accused PC's.


HiVolt
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reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

yeah. they never replied to us with a draft C&D letter. *shrug*

It's obvious they dont want to do C&D. It doesn't fit their shakedown for profit model...

Honestly, I think they are bigger crooks than the file sharers they are trying to "bring to justice".
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MaynardKrebs
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reply to TSI Marc

It was strapped to the leg of the last carrier pigeon.
Musta got lost.



TSI Marc
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reply to creed3020

yeah. they never replied to us with a draft C&D letter. *shrug*
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creed3020
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reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

The doc is up on our site: »www.teksavvy.com/en/why-teksavvy···ormation

I don't see the C&D letter, I assume you must mean CIPPIC getting intrevenor status?


TSI Marc
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reply to resa1983

The doc is up on our site: »www.teksavvy.com/en/why-teksavvy···ormation
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resa1983
Premium
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North York, ON
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reply to JMJimmy

said by JMJimmy:

said by TSI Marc:

It'll be interesting to see what they do now.

Indeed. Marc, can I ask has their been any movement from Voltage on the cease and desist?

He posted in Canadian Broadband:
»Voltage Versus Teksavvy, Round 2 Continued

Still nada.
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