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Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to milnoc

Re: Iran Built A Fighter Jet---Why Can't Canada?

said by milnoc:

We can't anymore. After the cancellation, we signed a treaty with the USA that forbids us to unilaterally build our own fighters. We can only build them "in partnership" with the USA.

You got a citation?


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada

Good on Iran to combat dependence on foreign industrial production by leveraging their natural resources to finance their own solutions. I wish we were that smart.



Xstar_Lumini

join:2008-12-14
Canada
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to sm5w2

said by sm5w2:

I hear that some divers are really close to finding some of the scale models of the avro they shot out over lake ontario.

We must be the most stupid people on Earth, after spending billions and cancelling this project we went ahead and destroyed all the blue prints and cast machines of this jet plane instead of selling them off to recoup our money... aren't we smart?

To anyone that cares Iran has built it's own home-made vehicles since 1984, it's called the "Paykan" or something like that.


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
reply to Rifleman

Canada isn't working overtime on a nuclear weapons program, either, nor are we hurriedly preparing to go to war.

The only reason Iran is trying to build US stealth fighter jet knock-offs is that their nuclear program has put them under tight international sanctions and no one will sell them the real thing.



FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom

said by Wolfie00:

Canada isn't working overtime on a nuclear weapons program, either, nor are we hurriedly preparing to go to war.

The only reason Iran is trying to build US stealth fighter jet knock-offs is that their nuclear program has put them under tight international sanctions and no one will sell them the real thing.

They could buy some good stuff from Russia or China, but they're playing it smart by keeping their dependence on foreign industries to a minimum. Canada... Not so much
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8

said by FiReSTaRT:

They could buy some good stuff from Russia or China...

There has been an arms embargo since United Nations Security Council Resolution 1747 in 2007, reinforced by five other binding resolutions after that. China and Russia participated in passing those resolutions.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to FiReSTaRT

said by FiReSTaRT:

said by Wolfie00:

Canada isn't working overtime on a nuclear weapons program, either, nor are we hurriedly preparing to go to war.

The only reason Iran is trying to build US stealth fighter jet knock-offs is that their nuclear program has put them under tight international sanctions and no one will sell them the real thing.

They could buy some good stuff from Russia or China, but they're playing it smart by keeping their dependence on foreign industries to a minimum. Canada... Not so much

No big deal to modify a Bombardier Q400 series to be like an AC-130H/J.

If we put roll-down windows on a Challenger and give the pilots pistols, we'll have a much more advanced fighter aircraft than we had a the start of World War I - there's no propeller to fire through.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

said by milnoc:

We can't anymore. After the cancellation, we signed a treaty with the USA that forbids us to unilaterally build our own fighters. We can only build them "in partnership" with the USA.

You got a citation?

The Defense Production Sharing Agreement.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Pr···greement

»www.ccc.ca/en/industries-and-mar···PSAe.pdf
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by milnoc:

The Defense Production Sharing Agreement.

Have you read the agreement? It does absolutely nothing like what you described.

Canada could completely do something on their own, and the Americans in turn would be within their right to withdraw production in Canada as per the agreement.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
reply to Wolfie00

said by Wolfie00:

There has been an arms embargo since United Nations Security Council Resolution 1747 in 2007, reinforced by five other binding resolutions after that. China and Russia participated in passing those resolutions.

Thanks for pointing that out. I was unaware of it. Well, I guess the Iranians will benefit from this bit of adversity once the Sun finally sets on the US and the crusade ends. Who knows, one day, we might even be buying from them, once those F35's start performing like those British subs
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

said by Rifleman:

Lol. I highly doubt it'll fly.
»www.liveleak.com/view?i=f79_1359795485

The view inside the cockpit (now vanishing off the internet)shows that Iran has an active and viable fibreglass industry.

so they got stuff where you got your teeth?

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to FiReSTaRT

said by FiReSTaRT:

said by Wolfie00:

There has been an arms embargo since United Nations Security Council Resolution 1747 in 2007, reinforced by five other binding resolutions after that. China and Russia participated in passing those resolutions.

Thanks for pointing that out. I was unaware of it. Well, I guess the Iranians will benefit from this bit of adversity once the Sun finally sets on the US and the crusade ends. Who knows, one day, we might even be buying from them, once those F35's start performing like those British subs

hate to bust your bubble but a russian T50 will knock out any three f35's no problem and at a cost of a 3rd the price
oh well india is buying 200 of those ....what are we getting OH RIGHT its not even really flying yet ....and will be susceptible to lightning and with one jet engine well it wont be up long ....and cant fight at supersonic speeds....haha no weapons at that speed = LOSER


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

said by funny0:

hate to bust your bubble but a russian T50 will knock out any three f35's no problem and at a cost of a 3rd the price
oh well india is buying 200 of those ....what are we getting OH RIGHT its not even really flying yet ....and will be susceptible to lightning and with one jet engine well it wont be up long ....and cant fight at supersonic speeds....haha no weapons at that speed = LOSER

wow...this post is full of so much nonsense, i'm not even going to bother picking it apart...your username is very applicable after reading this mess.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by dirtyjeffer:

said by funny0:

hate to bust your bubble but a russian T50 will knock out any three f35's no problem and at a cost of a 3rd the price
oh well india is buying 200 of those ....what are we getting OH RIGHT its not even really flying yet ....and will be susceptible to lightning and with one jet engine well it wont be up long ....and cant fight at supersonic speeds....haha no weapons at that speed = LOSER

wow...this post is full of so much nonsense, i'm not even going to bother picking it apart...your username is very applicable after reading this mess.

"funny/Chronoss"'s post may not be so far fetched.

This is discussing last-gen aircraft.
»theboresight.blogspot.ca/2009/07···red.html
»www.airforcesreview.com/reports/···ag-08-4/

New Russian designs are going to be a lot better han these older designs (which are pretty damn good) as the Russians are not stupid. Since they are now going after Western markets their aircraft have to be in the same ballpark as far as stealth, aerodynamics, weapons, performance, and electronics.

No government is going to come out and say that their brand-new $80B shiny toy is going to get smoked by the competition, but so far the F-35 has a lot to prove.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

i'm not denying the T50, which is really just the prototype of the FA is likely a very good aircraft.

it was more about his "facts"...cost, the fact the FA is also "non-existent yet" (like the F35, still in prototype phase with official launch date expected to be in about 4 years) and his comment about not being able to "fight at supersonic speeds" (like dogfighting is still a likely A-A style of combat, which it isn't)...i won't bother going into details, as some of it has already been done already, but my point stands.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


GeoStar

join:2011-02-10
j2e6f5
reply to Rifleman

Are they not also on a quest to build the world's first
" Nuclear handgrenade--- "

Nuclear Handgernade Specs.......
Throwing radius 25 meters
Lethality Radius 300 meters

run .......



FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to dirtyjeffer

said by dirtyjeffer:

and his comment about not being able to "fight at supersonic speeds" (like dogfighting is still a likely A-A style of combat, which it isn't)

You don't dogfight at supersonic speeds. What he means....what I
mean what others mean by fighting at supersonic speeds is you are
vectored or your radar gets you quickly close enough to use a
standoff air to air then you leave your enemy's weapons radius faster
than your enemy can fly toward you. The F-35 seems to only have a
"dash" supersonic ability.

FaxCap

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to GeoStar

said by GeoStar:

Are they not also on a quest to build the world's first
" Nuclear handgrenade--- "

Nuclear Handgernade Specs.......
Throwing radius 25 meters
Lethality Radius 300 meters

run .......

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to FaxCap

said by FaxCap:
You don't dogfight at supersonic speeds.
oh, you don't need to tell me that, i already know that.

quote:
What he means....what I
mean what others mean by fighting at supersonic speeds is you are
vectored or your radar gets you quickly close enough to use a
standoff air to air then you leave your enemy's weapons radius faster
than your enemy can fly toward you. The F-35 seems to only have a
"dash" supersonic ability.

FaxCap

you got links for that?...it is hard to really tell how an F35 and an FA would "fight each other" in A-A combat, since neither jet is actually "available" and the amount of factual information on both is limited at best.

it will all come down to avionics, stealth ability and weapons systems, all of which the F35 has state of the art...the FA (i would imagine) would too, but i can't be sure, nor would i make a sweeping generalized statement about the FA shooting F35's out of the sky with ease...it's nonsense to say such a thing.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


CanadianRip

join:2009-07-15
Oakville, ON
reply to Rifleman

I think the real story here is that someone didn't misquote Ahmadinjad as saying death to Israel with my mighty warplane.



i chuckled

@videotron.ca

said by CanadianRip:

I think the real story here is that someone didn't misquote Ahmadinjad as saying death to Israel with my mighty warplane.

heh
Amen

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver
reply to Rifleman

Haha, apparently some people are thinking this "war plane" is just an RC plane.


funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by dirtyjeffer:

said by funny0:

hate to bust your bubble but a russian T50 will knock out any three f35's no problem and at a cost of a 3rd the price
oh well india is buying 200 of those ....what are we getting OH RIGHT its not even really flying yet ....and will be susceptible to lightning and with one jet engine well it wont be up long ....and cant fight at supersonic speeds....haha no weapons at that speed = LOSER

wow...this post is full of so much nonsense, i'm not even going to bother picking it apart...your username is very applicable after reading this mess.

"funny/Chronoss"'s post may not be so far fetched.

This is discussing last-gen aircraft.
»theboresight.blogspot.ca/2009/07···red.html
»www.airforcesreview.com/reports/···ag-08-4/

New Russian designs are going to be a lot better han these older designs (which are pretty damn good) as the Russians are not stupid. Since they are now going after Western markets their aircraft have to be in the same ballpark as far as stealth, aerodynamics, weapons, performance, and electronics.

No government is going to come out and say that their brand-new $80B shiny toy is going to get smoked by the competition, but so far the F-35 has a lot to prove.

that f35 is worth nothing compared to a WORKING FLYING russian T-50 , the t50 has two engines ergo flies longer , flies faster and can fire at super sonic speeds ergo would smoke a turlted slow moving sub sonic f35

you then look at the russian tag of 47-57 million a jet vs what 200 million or some crap for a f35 ?
wholly what is the usa doing imploding on patents and copyrights?

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to dirtyjeffer

said by dirtyjeffer:

said by FaxCap:
You don't dogfight at supersonic speeds.
oh, you don't need to tell me that, i already know that.

quote:
What he means....what I
mean what others mean by fighting at supersonic speeds is you are
vectored or your radar gets you quickly close enough to use a
standoff air to air then you leave your enemy's weapons radius faster
than your enemy can fly toward you. The F-35 seems to only have a
"dash" supersonic ability.

FaxCap

you got links for that?...it is hard to really tell how an F35 and an FA would "fight each other" in A-A combat, since neither jet is actually "available" and the amount of factual information on both is limited at best.

it will all come down to avionics, stealth ability and weapons systems, all of which the F35 has state of the art...the FA (i would imagine) would too, but i can't be sure, nor would i make a sweeping generalized statement about the FA shooting F35's out of the sky with ease...it's nonsense to say such a thing.

ya you dont need to dog fight at mach 4
ill zip in fire off a few and be gone while your pulling your wire
and have tagged 4 of ya befor eyou realize your on candid camera

your talking aobut intercepting
this is ME zipping in at 2800 MPH fireing off then running away

GOT YA nanannana
oh where am i and your at 700 mph ROFL
funny as my nick says
you go on thinking you need to dog fight

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to FaxCap

said by FaxCap:

said by dirtyjeffer:

and his comment about not being able to "fight at supersonic speeds" (like dogfighting is still a likely A-A style of combat, which it isn't)

You don't dogfight at supersonic speeds. What he means....what I
mean what others mean by fighting at supersonic speeds is you are
vectored or your radar gets you quickly close enough to use a
standoff air to air then you leave your enemy's weapons radius faster
than your enemy can fly toward you. The F-35 seems to only have a
"dash" supersonic ability.

FaxCap

everyones dumping the f35
FOR other jets heck india is buying up 200 of the russian t-50's
with other nations totalling 600 orders
you might want to evaluate your americans screwups and lack of ability to do the job how long they been working at it?
Expand your moderator at work


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to funny0

Re: Iran Built A Fighter Jet---Why Can't Canada?

said by funny0:

that f35 is worth nothing compared to a WORKING FLYING russian T-50 , the t50 has two engines ergo flies longer , flies faster and can fire at super sonic speeds ergo would smoke a turlted slow moving sub sonic f35

you then look at the russian tag of 47-57 million a jet vs what 200 million or some crap for a f35 ?
wholly what is the usa doing imploding on patents and copyrights?

Of course, it doesn't matter if it's faster if it gets shot down before it can actually be a threat to the F35....
--
Tom

cog_biz_user
i ruin threads apparently

join:2011-04-19
Hamilton, ON
reply to CanadianRip

said by CanadianRip:

I think the real story here is that someone didn't misquote Ahmadinjad as saying death to Israel with my mighty warplane.

He'll probably die in his space shuttle launch anyways.

--

Not to derail the thread, but did they ever find the Avro Arrow that was claimed to have been hidden in Britain?
--
Myth: It's only fair to pay for quality first-run movies.
Fact: Most movies shown on cable get two stars or less
and are repeated ad nauseum.


Rifleman
Premium
join:2004-02-09
p1a
reply to Rifleman

I watched an episode of Pawnstars last night where he could have bought a mint condition russian Albatross? jet fighter for 150 grand. Why not go that route?
»www.thepawnshow.com/l-39-albatro···fighter/


MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·voip.ms
·Rogers Hi-Speed

The L-39 is a Czechoslovakian (designed before the split) jet primarily made as a trainer, though some armed variants exist. Not really good for "jet fighter" duties. You're comparing apples and oranges here.

There are much better used jets out there. A lot of air forces buy used U.S. fighter jets (F-16 especially).
--
Start Communications Forum