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signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to ccallana

Re: Haswell vs Ivy Bridge Benchmarked Compared Clock-for-Clock

Show us a provable significant drop in PC and laptop sales that will support them backing away from those consumers.

A new Win OS is out. With every new rollout of OSs there has been a need for more "horsepower" or the new OS meant a slower system. There IS a need to provide hardware that will work up to the OSs ramp up.

You don't slough off a hand that feeds you because you see another hand in the distance. Sure, Intel NEEDS to get on the ball with the new industries, but this is hardly the time to back away from their loyal consumer base that got them to where they are, they have a responsibility to their consumers.

But debate aside. What percentage performance increase IS reasonable?1/10 of 1%? or something measurable? When AMD failed to give noticeable increases, they were slammed badly. Why shouldn't Intel taste the same medicine from critics?

OR at least a reasonable explanation of what is going on.

Just a more electrically efficient processor after years of more power is not going to settle well with the cognoscenti out there. There needs to be justification to spending a whole, what, $150-$600 on a new mainboard, plus $100-$300 on RAM, plus $100-$1000 on a new CPU, or even more.

To remain relevant you need to keep your customers, and give them a reason to buy something new over something old. Not taking risks, not pushing the envelope, shifting resources significantly away from established consumers? If that is what is happening, AMD might have a chance at a comeback...

I think Intel is jumping the gun if they are already backing out of the PC business. Are they? Are they partly?

Over reacting to the infancy of a shift in consumer attitudes, walking away from a bread basket, that certainly doesn't bode well for the new base.
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2
said by signmeuptoo:

A new Win OS is out. With every new rollout of OSs there has been a need for more "horsepower" or the new OS meant a slower system. There IS a need to provide hardware that will work up to the OSs ramp up.

Actually, Windows has gotten smaller as of late. Remember the release of Windows Vista and how high the Recommended Specifications were? Then Windows 7 came out and its Recommended Specifications were lower.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5

1 edit
But WEI moved up even so. I'm not so sure that Win7 wasn't a new challenge to hardware on some levels. And Win8 is something of a significant change under the hood and in interface.

Even so, if a new OS flately and absolutely doesn't justify a measurable increase in performance, there is still software, games, apps, more demanding web use...

The bottleneck hasn't been the CPU in countless years, I hope it won't be in the coming years.

If Win8 would mean my aged Phenom Quad would deliver more performance, maybe I need to get it? What measure of increase in performance is there? I've heard nothing of this, so I have to ask.

Furthermore: if the only improvements are a better iGPU and less power used, why must consumers have to live in yet another socket change? Is intel expecting they have the right to force people into a new socket and new mainboard chipset because of those reasons?

Sounds more like change for changes sake as I reflect on this. I guess it's good since I cannot afford a new build anyways. My old Phenom II Quad will remain adequate then, so why bother getting an Intel system? Better I put any money I have into SSDs perhaps?
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
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Cleveland, OH
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Aren't we only talking about basic benchmarks here? We've not seen numbers from real-world applications. So really we can't say what is going on here.


ccallana
Huh?
Premium,VIP
join:2000-08-03
Folsom, CA
reply to signmeuptoo
*nobody* is saying here that Intel is backing away from the general PC business. What *I* am trying to say, is that the analysts, you know, the ones who basically make the stock market move up and down (it has very little to do with the actual performance of the company) - say something to the effect, "we think that the general computer PC business is dead, and the only area that means anything for a CPU company is making Tablet and Phone processors, and if a company doesn't, they are crap, and we won't invest in them"

So those people, who may or may not know *anything* about a PC, or even the PC business, have a say so in how things happen, and companies *have* to respond.

Intel is investing *heavily* in the standard user base. True, the market for PCs is shifting. The plain black/beige desktop box is sliding away, laptops have been out pacing desktops for a *long* time. I think in the "normal" user environment you will see 2 types of systems leading the way: The "ultrabook" type systems - super thin, super light, but not lacking in performance; and the "All-in-one" desktop system, a PC in a Monitor basically. (which really is just an ultrabook with a 27" screen as far as the hardware is concerned.) Sure, the build-your-own crowd will frown upon both of these options as non-expandable, non-configurable - so there is still a market for individual components, but I think your standard user will shy away from such systems.

As has already been said, Haswell doesn't even go on sale for *months* and many people here are already writing it off as a loser part. Perhaps we can wait until real units, and real numbers are available.... I do not believe for one moment that the architects and design engineers for Haswell said, ever, "you know, we don't really *need* to make this CPU any faster, so let's not". That is *never* part of the conversation. But there are tradeoffs that have to be made - so *if* (and I say that because we don't really know at this point) the CPU gains are not as large as perhaps was expected by the know-it-alls who do *not* design chips for Intel, it is only because it was deemed more important to put effort elsewhere.

As far as I know, nobody here is an actual chip designer for Intel here in this thread - if you are, and you know more about this than I do, please, correct me.

(btw - for those who don't know, I *am* an Intel employee. Currently Software testing for tablet graphics drivers, but formerly a CPU and Chipset validation engineer. My comments are my own, based on public information - I do not speak for the company in any official or unofficial way, and nothing here should be construed as such)
--
"We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us.... We are far too easily pleased." C.S. Lewis


trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2
said by ccallana:

*nobody* is saying here that Intel is backing away from the general PC business. What *I* am trying to say, is that the analysts, you know, the ones who basically make the stock market move up and down (it has very little to do with the actual performance of the company) - say something to the effect, "we think that the general computer PC business is dead, and the only area that means anything for a CPU company is making Tablet and Phone processors, and if a company doesn't, they are crap, and we won't invest in them"

I love it how the people who know absolutely shit about the market get to drive the market that they know nothing about. It makes no sense at all. But then again, whoever said that this world makes any sense.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)