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jaa
Premium
join:2000-06-13
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Optimum Online
reply to rfhar

Re: Windows 8's usage uptake falls further behind Vista's

I don't understand why they won't just "fix" it. I think 99% of the complaints would go away if:

1. They put the start button back on the desktop view
2. They gave you the option of starting in desktop or metro mode
--
NOTHING justifies terrorism. We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those that support terrorists are terrorists.


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

Perhaps they think that they have to move users into different (phone-based) environment. IMHO, it's wrong and a big mistake on their part. But anyway, it's definitely a push, not a honest mistake...
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...



jaa
Premium
join:2000-06-13
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Optimum Online

If that is their strategy - force this on the desktop environment so we will buy their phone because it looks the same - they are mistaken.
--
NOTHING justifies terrorism. We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those that support terrorists are terrorists.


Gem
Premium
join:2005-09-10
kudos:4
Reviews:
·CableOne
reply to jaa

said by jaa:

I don't understand why they won't just "fix" it. I think 99% of the complaints would go away if:

1. They put the start button back on the desktop view
2. They gave you the option of starting in desktop or metro mode

You can do both of those things fairly easily with Classic Systems' "Classic Startup" utility.

I'm more concerned with other potential problems in the OS that some people have mentioned, but have not yet been encountered here.

For example, is there a problem with the ntfs file formats that W8 uses?


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to jaa

said by jaa:

I don't understand why they won't just "fix" it. I think 99% of the complaints would go away if:

1. They put the start button back on the desktop view
2. They gave you the option of starting in desktop or metro mode

3. Unified the metro experience so that all metro apps behaved the same... and had print! It's silly that you can't print from the metro mail app.


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to jaa

They won't "fix" it because the desktop as it is today is eventually going to disappear. The vast majority of PC users don't use the Start Menu, they use desktop icons or favorites in the browser.

So when the desktop disappears, apps will be started from a launcher or using icons. All the functionality of the Start Menu can built into those replacements.

The reason for all of this is that market share and margins on desktops are declining in favor of mobile devices, including desktop replacements like the Windows Surface Pro.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.



HolmanGT
HolmanGT
Premium
join:2001-11-20
Washington, UT
reply to urbanriot

Boy - urbanriot...

You just about sent me over the edge with the "can't print" in the Metro Mail.

It took me a little to find it but if you call up the "Jewels" (whatever) and click on "Devices" it list the printers. Select the printer and then it gives you a page with all the normal print options.



dev_skoonce

@ovh.net
reply to digitalfutur

said by digitalfutur:

They won't "fix" it because the desktop as it is today is eventually going to disappear. The vast majority of PC users don't use the Start Menu, they use desktop icons or favorites in the browser.

So when the desktop disappears, apps will be started from a launcher or using icons. All the functionality of the Start Menu can built into those replacements.

The reason for all of this is that market share and margins on desktops are declining in favor of mobile devices, including desktop replacements like the Windows Surface Pro.

Tell that to developers and designers who need a PRECISION pointer to do their job. Did you try actually WORKING on a touch-screen BS "device" that "will take over the future"? Touch screen is for "dicking around", not for work, unless you are a manager who like to feel "cool" while doing nothing productive, for example forcing OS into Metro interface.

IMHO


goalieskates
Premium
join:2004-09-12
land of big
reply to digitalfutur

said by digitalfutur:

They won't "fix" it because the desktop as it is today is eventually going to disappear. The vast majority of PC users don't use the Start Menu, they use desktop icons or favorites in the browser.

Back that statement about "the vast majority" up, please? Because I don't think you have a clue on that.


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2

Walk around any office and see how many people use the Start Menu. The larger the company, the less likely that the Start Menu will ever be used. The average user runs their PC from the desktop using icons or uses favorites in their browser.

And in case anyone think that the decline in desktop sales, including Apple's is a blip, it isn't.

»www.businessinsider.com/chart-of···h-2011-5

»www.extremetech.com/computing/14···rst-time

In the next few years, the desktop PC will be replaced by full function/full power tablets like the Windows Surface Pro, which can be hooked up to a monitor and external keyboard for a user experience just like a desktop. People will pay more for the smaller form factor and the portability, just as they have for laptops before for the same reason. The transition to mobile devices is as sure as the replacement of CRT TVs was by flat screens.

Any tech company with a minimal or no presence in the mobile space will soon be out of business. That's why the Start Menu isn't coming back, why the desktop as it exists today is going away, and why an integrated OS across all platforms is the correct strategy. Apple will soon have to adopt the same strategy as Microsoft, or it will have to get out of the desktop business altogether. Companies won't stay in markets with declining market share and especially not in products with very low margins, which is where the desktop market is today.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

If true, then this would be my last computer as I have zero interest in dragging a computer around with me. I use a computer at home. I have zero interest in a tablet or laptop at home either. They will never have the power or versatility of a desktop. Plus, some folks game on a computer and you sure as heck can't do that well on anything other than a powerful desktop.

I would prefer NO computer to some crap piece of shit laptop or tablet.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



goalieskates
Premium
join:2004-09-12
land of big
reply to digitalfutur

said by digitalfutur:

Walk around any office and see how many people use the Start Menu. The larger the company, the less likely that the Start Menu will ever be used. The average user runs their PC from the desktop using icons or uses favorites in their browser.

Not true. And since I work in tech, I walk around a lot of companies in a lot of places, large and small.

So again - justify this statement. I don't mind you making predictions, predictions are fun, but your basic premise is flawed which makes hay of your conclusion presented as fact.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to digitalfutur

I agree with much of what you said.

I've been predicting for some time now that Intel will shift their priorities to Processor efficiency to combat the ARM initiative in the mobile space (smart phones / tablets). This is also in part due to poor competition from AMD in performance space.

However, using your CRT to flat screen analogy, I'll point out that I bought my first HDTV, a Viewsonic 32", in early 2006 which was about ~$1000 then:

»ViewSonic N2750w 27" or N3250w 32" 16:9 8ms HD LCD

Today a 32" HDTV would probably cost about ~$300 or possibly less. For the same ~$1000 today a 60" HDTV could be had. I guess what I am trying to say here is that there can still be progress and value even after such a transition.

I also don't think the desktop PC will totally go away but prices may go up and there will be less variety.

Expandability and performance may be found in the mobile space.


zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to digitalfutur

said by digitalfutur:

In the next few years, the desktop PC will be replaced by full function/full power tablets like the Windows Surface Pro, which can be hooked up to a monitor and external keyboard for a user experience just like a desktop. People will pay more for the smaller form factor and the portability, just as they have for laptops before for the same reason. The transition to mobile devices is as sure as the replacement of CRT TVs was by flat screens.

I think PC sales will decline but not go extinct. The same reason laptops never fully replaced PC's. People still want to surf the internet, do their homework and use a full sized computer screen while at home. PC upgrades might be few and far between (as they are pretty powerful these days) but I think they'll still be in homes.

I find portable devices are great, but the screen sizes are so small. Tablets/Phones are great when your away from the PC, but give me a 24" screen with mouse/keyboard any day

I guess my opinion is that all of these devices will augment each other.


dellsweig
Extreme Aerobatics
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
kudos:1

said by zod5000:

said by digitalfutur:

In the next few years, the desktop PC will be replaced by full function/full power tablets like the Windows Surface Pro, which can be hooked up to a monitor and external keyboard for a user experience just like a desktop. People will pay more for the smaller form factor and the portability, just as they have for laptops before for the same reason. The transition to mobile devices is as sure as the replacement of CRT TVs was by flat screens.

I think PC sales will decline but not go extinct. The same reason laptops never fully replaced PC's. People still want to surf the internet, do their homework and use a full sized computer screen while at home. PC upgrades might be few and far between (as they are pretty powerful these days) but I think they'll still be in homes.

I find portable devices are great, but the screen sizes are so small. Tablets/Phones are great when your away from the PC, but give me a 24" screen with mouse/keyboard any day

I guess my opinion is that all of these devices will augment each other.

You touched a KEY point here - how these devices will interact....

I would be VERY happy if my Imac would simply detect the presence of my Ipad on my desk and give me some kind of access - whether its to data/files, an Ipad desktop or simply access to the apps. I dont mean 'cloud' integrations either.

Whatever the folks that design this stuff come up with - it has to be seamless and not impact the functionality (or try to replace the functionality) of the individual devices.

Who-ever gets this right will have a winner on their hands..
--
Nothin' left to do but smile smile smile


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to zod5000

said by zod5000:

said by digitalfutur:

In the next few years, the desktop PC will be replaced by full function/full power tablets like the Windows Surface Pro, which can be hooked up to a monitor and external keyboard for a user experience just like a desktop. People will pay more for the smaller form factor and the portability, just as they have for laptops before for the same reason. The transition to mobile devices is as sure as the replacement of CRT TVs was by flat screens.

I think PC sales will decline but not go extinct. The same reason laptops never fully replaced PC's. People still want to surf the internet, do their homework and use a full sized computer screen while at home. PC upgrades might be few and far between (as they are pretty powerful these days) but I think they'll still be in homes.

I find portable devices are great, but the screen sizes are so small. Tablets/Phones are great when your away from the PC, but give me a 24" screen with mouse/keyboard any day

I guess my opinion is that all of these devices will augment each other.

One could always doc a laptop to have access to traditional desktop components such as a monitor, keyboard, external HDD and maybe even things like full desktop PCIe video cards via Thunderbolt,....

There are solutions and ways of dealing with things,.....


Woody79_00
I run Linux am I still a PC?
Premium
join:2004-07-08
united state

I don't think Desktops will just disappear....

The hardware in Desktops will ALWAYS be superior for 2 reasons:

1. More room for better and bigger hardware.
2. More room for better and efficient cooling.

With a high end gaming laptop, you would be lucky to get a steady 25 FPS. I would love to see someone try to play Crysis 3 on a tablet. Even a really high end gaming laptop will most likely be brought to its knees on high settings. In fact, I figure two 7970's in CrossfireX or an Nvidia SLI equavilent will be required to run that game on all settings maxed at playable frame rates @1080p

Yes there is a difference between 30 fps and 60 fps to the human eye. I can notice it, and im sure other PC gamers notice it to. Console graphics look like garbage after playing the same game on a real PC.

As for cooling....compiling huge amounts of code that peg a 4 core, even an 8 core CPU at 100% for extended periods of time are going to cause tablets, and some laptops, some serious issues with heat. These systems were not designed for that kind of heavy lifting.

Will mobile device get more popular? sure they will. Will they be the right tool in every instance? no. Will PC go away? not a chance.

in fact, I bet online part retailers like Newegg and others won't miss a beat...in fact they may gain even more business. Steam sales i do beleive are at an all time high and they cater to the PC gaming crowd. PC's are far from dead folks



AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1

said by Woody79_00:

With a high end gaming laptop, you would be lucky to get a steady 25 FPS. I would love to see someone try to play Crysis 3 on a tablet.

but, people are playing Angry Birds..
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


DarkSithPro

join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ
kudos:2
reply to Woody79_00

said by Woody79_00:

I don't think Desktops will just disappear....

The hardware in Desktops will ALWAYS be superior for 2 reasons:

1. More room for better and bigger hardware.
2. More room for better and efficient cooling.

With a high end gaming laptop, you would be lucky to get a steady 25 FPS. I would love to see someone try to play Crysis 3 on a tablet. Even a really high end gaming laptop will most likely be brought to its knees on high settings. In fact, I figure two 7970's in CrossfireX or an Nvidia SLI equavilent will be required to run that game on all settings maxed at playable frame rates @1080p

Yes there is a difference between 30 fps and 60 fps to the human eye. I can notice it, and im sure other PC gamers notice it to. Console graphics look like garbage after playing the same game on a real PC.

As for cooling....compiling huge amounts of code that peg a 4 core, even an 8 core CPU at 100% for extended periods of time are going to cause tablets, and some laptops, some serious issues with heat. These systems were not designed for that kind of heavy lifting.

Will mobile device get more popular? sure they will. Will they be the right tool in every instance? no. Will PC go away? not a chance.

in fact, I bet online part retailers like Newegg and others won't miss a beat...in fact they may gain even more business. Steam sales i do beleive are at an all time high and they cater to the PC gaming crowd. PC's are far from dead folks

nVidia has really upped their game with the 680 MX mobile GPU. Currently exclusive to the high end Imacs. It pretty much gives you high end desktop graphics performance in a mobile platform.

jamesonnorth

join:2012-12-22
Modoc, IN

A GTX480 will outperform a GTX680MX by around 4%, and that's two generations of desktop hardware ago. A GTX680 is about 26% faster than the laptop version. Is laptop and mobile GPU performance getting closer to desktop at a lot less power usage? Yes, but I wouldn't say it really gives you high end desktop graphics in a mobile platform.

Though I suppose one must ask what "high end" for desktop graphics really is. I only have a GTX 560ti, so the GTX680MX is more powerful than what's in my workstation PC.
--
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