Open Forum → Ready to dump Windows, is Mac or Linux better for me?

No you'll be fine.

The guy in my office who turned me on to Linux would be very proud.

The Ubuntu software download area will let you easily load SW. This is not your dad's Linux, you can be a user and not have to get your hands dirty or talk through command lines.

Glad it's working for you.

What are your specs? If you're using an AMD/ATI video card, just stick with Windows. You might not like Win8's full screen start screen, but it's much easier to just install a third party alternative like Classic Shell than installing Linux and trying to make it work.

My experience with Linux has been digging through articles and forums to make things work properly. It doesn't matter which distro you're running to be honest, in the end you're at the mercy of the drivers and the available software.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Linux works great for some people... But from my perspective, I don't see the point for the average home user. Someone called it the tinkerer's OS, and that description fits the bill, at least for the home user.

So was that the one with Retina? (overrated) but did yours have Retina?

I'm happy with my MacBook Air. paid $840 refurb, i5, 4GB RAM, lite keyboard. Cheaper than the $900 offering from Acer with same spec.

Especially after coming from a $1000 Windows machines that was a hunk of junk.

I am a Linux Mint user because Ubuntu became a lot like Windows 8, more tablet-oriented. Also, they've been trying to monetize it in some ways I really didn't like (ex: You search for a file or application on your system and it would give you Amazon shopping results).

For a basic, non-headache desktop system (that includes laptops), I'd go with Mint. Cinnamon or Mate will be fine even though I'm running XFCE on both my "desktop" systems (an honest-to-goodness desktop and a laptop) because I was able to tweak it to my taste.

As an m$ office alternative, I'd try Libre Office or Open Office. You can install them on your Windows system and play with them. If I were doing some SERIOUS work with a spreadsheet package, I might feel a bit crippled compared to Excel (especially since it has a lot more useful extensions like ASAP and MicroCharts). You can also run GIMP on your Windows machine.

Instead of burning a live DVD, I'd run Unetbootin »unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ and create a bootable memory stick. Works a lot better than optical crap, so you can try out Ubuntu, Mint with Cinnamon, Mint with Mate and anything else you can think of and pick your favourite.

I was a Windows user until I bought a lappy with Vista pre-installed and many things just didn't work. Tried Ubuntu (before it became tablet-oriented) and never looked back.

Unfortunately, it seems that Ubuntu / Linux will not work for me.

I opened up some XLS workbooks, and it does not work properly. Simple functions like indirect() do not work. Another workbook had a macro that gave errors and froze Calc with runtime errors. Writer opens my DOCX files, but does not appear identical in layout. They're not really compatible at all, especially Excel/Calc.

I also tried GIMP. While it's no Photoshop, it doesn't seem too difficult to apply Photoshop principles using that program. Also kinda odd that it's not one window. I'm sure someone can get adjusted to it, so GIMP is just okay.

And when I said that everything is fast a few posts back, I need to take that back. It is fast if you have one application open but it sucks with multitasking.

So I really can't switch to Linux unfortunately. I installed it on another computer with an i7 processor, 8 GB RAM. And it's still not up to par with Windows.

I need to seriously consider if it's worth my investment to get a Mac. Otherwise I guess I need to deal with Windows again and hopefully the Win/Office business model does not change much. Damn you Microsoft, I can never leave even though I try. LOL

Appreciate all the feedback given, they were very useful and informative, and hey, at least I tried Linux for the first time in my life.

If you haven't tried a Mac, you really need to do this before buying one and for longer than 10 minutes in an Apple store. Find a friend or coworker with one.

I'm a Windows user and haven't tried a Mac for about 10 years, but at that time I put serious time into learning that particular Mac OS which was new at that time. I found it annoying way beyond what I expected. With Windows, there are typically half a dozen ways to accomplish the same task in the OS, and the user gets to choose. With Mac, it was Jobs' way or the highway. Some very simple and routine tasks that could be accomplished with one quick right-click menu choice in Windows would take three or four unintuitive steps in the Mac. The Apple OS also made it deliberately difficult or impossible to poke around under the hood in ways that Windows users take for granted. Now all this may have changed in the last decade. But back then, I personally thought the "user friendly" image of the Mac was more legend than fact. They designed the thing for idiot-proof lockdown security and very limited command choices for ease of technical support in the Mac versus lots of user customizability for Windows.

Also if you already have Photoshop and Office, you need to take into consideration the cost of switching your software to the Mac. If you have one of those new $@##! Adobe subscriptions for Photoshop, you may be able to transfer it to a Mac--I don't know one way or the other--check it out. But if you have disc-based or download-based non-subscription Photoshop software, it is probably not transferable (again: check this out--I am not an expert on this), and if it is not transferable, you would have to $tart over and re-buy Photo$hop. IIRC, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom can be moved to a Mac without rebuying, but not recent versions of Adobe Photoshop. Office would have to be repurchased in the Office-for-Mac version. Remember that the interface and command sequence is somewhat different and will require some relearning moving Photoshop and Office to the Mac.

Also remember to check the websites for all your peripheral devices to see which ones have Mac drivers to avoid other hardware rebuy$. Keep in mind that if you want to make hardware changes under the hood of a Mac as with video cards a few years down the road, if you do that sort of thing, your choices may be much more limited, even proprietary (you may be restricted to Apple models for some devices), and therefore more expensive.

Yes, I thank Linux some pretty friendly Graphic User Interface (GUI).
But, I like Os System W7 & W8.

I'm pretty sure you could run WINE to install Office or use something like Virtualbox to have a virtual Windows instance. I guess that defeats the purpose, but if you're looking to replace the whole OS experience, that's the way to get around the bulk of your issues.

I ran Mint for a while with a Win7 VM on VirtualBox. From there, I could install and run anything. The only reason why I dumped Linux was because of the 3D gaming requirements. Most of the games I wanted to play could run, but I'm in a lull right now trying to find a new game to capture my interest, so things like Mech Warrrior Online wasn't going to work at all.

Love how people say that yet forget things like this exist:

»www.engadget.com/2013/02 ··· -and-up/

Yes, better resolution than the 13" MBP but the MBP gets better battery life.

Or all these models:

»www.engadget.com/2012/10 ··· -review/
»www.engadget.com/2012/11 ··· -review/
»www.engadget.com/2013/01 ··· -review/

The Mac "tax" is not that bad at all. And like you said it will (for the most part) be reliable.

The mac tax is exactly what it is.

I can get a 21.5" iMac with a 2.5ghz i5 for $1,299, or I can put together the same system for $600~ or less. When it gets out of date, I can upgrade a single component in two years for a few bucks and be back in business.

Not with good quality components and with similar build quality:

»www.zdnet.com/how-to-bui ··· 0/#photo

Total $1,081. And you get to build it, warranty it, etc.

Site ate my post. Trying again.

If you were to follow ZD Net, you'd pay $1,081, which is still over $200 cheaper than what Apple is asking for. If you wanted more control over your components with warranty and high end components, we regularly build out components for people based on their needs and come in well below the $1000 mark. Most people walk away in the $600-800 range with quality components that perform much better than what you'll buy at Apple.

Also, sup Carlisle.

I get you believe in (or sell) the Build your own PC stuff. I was there, sold the systems, have the scars to prove it. I've since moved on as margins were too low, people expected the world and Windows was a PITA to deal with. In the end it was easier to buy from my distributor, let them warranty it and just fix it.

The average person will not DIY rather go out and buy whatever they see at the stores. The PC enthusiast will go to Mom & Pop stores or Newegg it. Most likely none of the real cheap parts cobbled together will outperform a Mac. Why? There are differences in parts and that's where the experience of the integrator comes in. History is littered with "special" stuff for the OEM and retail markets and even special stuff for different OEM's.

The point is for $200 more you get a fully tested system that will outperform others in its price range. Apple's systems generally benchmark near the top when outfitted with Windows. You will not have to worry about dealing with component failures, RMA's and such.

I'd rather pay the $200 and not have to deal with it. My time is worth more than $200 to build a system, install an OS, etc. Not to mention my preference for a laptop,

Different strokes for different folks.

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Also, sup Carlisle.

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'sup. You from Central PA too?

But macs don't exactly use good quality components(broadcom for instance), not to mention the imac uses laptop parts.

I do not sell systems. I've never sold systems. I've assembled hundreds and I've put all of mine together since I was 12 back in the early 90's.

We're in a position where we're giving advice to people who are already technically proficient enough to get here. The DIY PC assembly is easier than it ever was. There's no jumpers to screw around with. There's no voltage settings to screw with. Everything is color coated and everything plugs in one way and is blatantly obvious and labeled. You only screw around with that stuff if you want to and that's if you're beyond the hobbyist level.

In another forum on the same site, we regularly assist people with finding a series of components that will help them get the computer they want. We're talking about gamers here, who have steeper requirements. The big expense in these systems? The video card. Typically, you're going to need the PSU to back it up as well.

If we're giving advice on how to assemble solid computers for people that aren't gamers, like the OP, the price goes from $1299 down to about $500 for the same hardware. We're not talking about junk hardware either. We're talking about suggesting only quality hardware that is thoroughly tested and reviewed by independent sources (like Tom's Hardware) and purchased from reputable sites with good prices and good return/warranty policies (like NewEgg).

The $200 difference is for a pre-built system based off a ZD Net recommendation that appears to be video-only, so I can't even compare the hardware specs to see what's different.

The point I'm trying to reinforce is that the Mac Tax is very real and very expensive. You have to find high-end OEM builds to compare to low-end Apple builds with price. If someone's asking between Windows, Mac, and Linux, it means they already know what Linux is and they're competent enough to tackle a new build.

I understand the appeal of an Apple. I understand why people want their products, but I wanted to clear up the myth that the Mac Tax was minimal, as it is not.

I live in Mechanicsburg, so a few minutes away at most.

Really? I've got hundreds of servers I manage here with Broadcomm NIC's in them. These are IBM servers, not some whitebox company either.

LOL IBM Servers.

I'm an AIX 7 certified administrator. My uncle is the local CE for IBM and we've had lengthy conversations about IBM hardware quality. My job is to work on this stuff on a daily basis.

The hardware fails just like any other hardware. There are defective components that get replaced with defective components just like any other hardware.

I'd think that perhaps we could be working in the same place, but I doubt it since you hold IBM servers with high regard.

IBM isn't exactly cream of the crop.

I get helping people build them. I got from the OP that he was looking for something he can buy in a store rather than DIY.

I did the DIY route before I got my first Mac. Even choosing "quality stuff" there was always some little nagging issue. If you ended up with DOA or a bum component 6 months later you were SOL until your RMA was processed. Not so with a packaged computer. Heck, when my Macbook's Hard Drive died in 2008 I was in and out of the Apple store with a whole new computer in 30 minutes.

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The point I'm trying to reinforce is that the Mac Tax is very real and very expensive. You have to find high-end OEM builds to compare to low-end Apple builds with price.

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I get that but Apple's low end stuff is generally on par with mid to high end PC stuff. Look at Ultrabooks - something Apple pioneered. And generally they are all priced around Apple's prices. Look at that Dell I linked - it's priced the same as a Macbook Pro but the MBP has better battery life.

Decent AIO's are also around the same price as an iMac.

IMHO, the tax argument only comes into play when you go low end PC to Apple's low end. And then you are giving up much to go low end (like build quality, speed, battery life, weight, etc).

I sampled the Low End Netbook market with an Acer from BJ's. Seemed good on paper, 250GB HD, dual core AMD CPU, 2GB, high resolution screen, etc. The thing is a dog in Windows and Linux. The display is subpar. But it was $299.

I think even the PC industry has realized the race to the bottom hurts more than it helps. I believe you are seeing prices creep up there as vendors realize they have to actually make money rather than build cheap junk.

It is an interesting discussion and in the end it's up to the user to decide what they want. Do they want something a tad more expensive that will be like the TV where it just works? Or do they want to tinker? Both options appeal to different people.

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I live in Mechanicsburg, so a few minutes away at most.

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Small world - we used to be in Camp Hill but ended up in Carlisle.

Yeah - I've noticed the quality declining in recent years. It's not what it used to be. We're exploring HP servers as a bunch of the guys have used them and like them. I've got no care either way as long as we don't go with Dell Junk.

The only thing I was trying to point out is that Broadcom is one of the top NIC vendors. I doubt IBM would be using them in their servers for years if they were junk. But then again I could be wrong. I think HP uses them too.

Then what is?

What are you running on your IBM systems? Are you using P series hardware? I series?

In our world, we deal with failing hardware on a regular basis. The important thing is that we have multiple layers of redundancy, so hardware swaps become a normal and routine thing, but downtime is not. Our AIX servers have redundant NICs, redundant power supplies in the frames and there are multiple hardware drawers. Our Linux systems run in a VMware environment where our guys have redundancy set up so there isn't any failure.

The storage has multiple disk paths and multiple HBAs for redundancy. Hardware gets replaced and we never really notice one vendor standing out over another. We use a plethora of vendors for a ton of customers.

Depends on what you are using it for. Laptop, desktop, server, tablet.

What are you asking about? Blades? Frames? Storage? Operating Systems? Networking Equipment?

Multiple vendors could make a single solution. You could be running Power Linux on an IBM Frame, using Cisco Networking equipment on EMC storage.

It's a difficult question to answer.

All of the Above + Xseries. I was/am strictly talking X86 server hardware. The others have their respective admins.

All systems are quite redundant.

But I'd rather be in the business of admining my Linux boxes rather than swapping hardware. In a proper infrastructure one server going down won't have an impact.

In all fairness, I think we're drifting here. Doubtful the OP is buying a server.

If we keep this up, he'll be getting his own XIV storage array and a P770 running his own LPARs. It's a little higher than his current budget, by a few hundred thousand, but he'll be able to have the hardware to run his own bank, stock exchange, corporation, or government agency.

Regardless of what OS you choose there is going to be the unpleasant experience of the learning curve. After all it’s a new OS for you.

You’ve seen, heard, and read lots of advertisements for Macs and Windows. Right?

There are two common themes in all of them. Mac ads tout their stuff and include a specific emphasis in comparing their ease and efficiency of use compared to Windows. Windows on the other hand simply advertises itself with few of any comparisons to Mac. There’s a reason for that duality.

On the other hand how many ads have you been exposed to for Linux? How many consumers choose to use Linux compared to OS X Mac or any version of Windows? There’s a reason for that.

I extensively used every version Windows from 3.1 to Windows 7 between 1994 and 2010. Sometime in 2010 I was given a Mac. For the next six months I continued to use Windows 7, the best OS Windows has ever had IMO. I like Windows 7. During that period though I would periodically fire up the Mac and play with it to learn it. Never consulted any manuals or tutorials. After about six months of literally just fiddling with OS X I made an all most complete switch to the Mac and now use it for 95 percent of my computer time, which is extensive on a daily basis.

I far prefer Mac OS X to Window 7. It’s not even close. OVERALL OS X is easier, more stable, intuitive, “smarter” and in security far more “functionally” secure than Windows and doesn’t require the constant updates of the OS or security applications that Windows does. In fact it isn’t until I switched to the Mac and only then on occasion go back to Windows that I realize the incredible amount of time I spend updating and patching things with Windows.

With the Mac I don’t do anything. My Avast free AV program provides real time protection and automatically updates. No action required by me. If I choose to run a scan it runs very fast.

The preceding is my personal opinion based upon my personal experience, needs and personal tastes or preferences. YMMV.

Let me say half-jokingly, but only half, that if Windows didn't exist neither would the excellent DSLR Security Forum.

That's because Linux is an open source product, rather than a product built around a bottom line. Companies that are interested in monetizing Linux, hit their target markets. Red Hat has a big brand in server operating systems and we see it on a regular basis. They monetize off of the support that they provide and the licensing for certain administrative technologies that they offer (like a Satellite server). Their support is the best of any company I've dealt with at a consumer and sys admin level.

There are companies who have monetized Linux and have done extremely well. Look at Android. That's Linux. Android quickly rose up in the smart device market and eventually overtook iOS as the majority OS. Linux, baby.

On the flipside, I could have made the comment that there's a reason why you don't see Apple in the server market, where stability and uptime matter. It's a loaded statement that suggests the wrong conclusion. It's because Apple's doing just fine in the consumer market and that's their niche.You're absolutely right with that remark. With the three options for Operating Systems, though, you can toss Linux on the same hardware that Windows runs on. You have to pay significantly more for hardware to run OSX. And it all boils down to personal preference, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're paying for anything superior.

(Hack, cough, in, cough, tosh.) Seriously though lets look at that specific topic you raise. Can you buy a PC for less than a Mac. Yes, no doubt about it. Especially the junk or bargain PCs. But...and this is big one:

Go to the Apple website and configure a top of the line iMac. See the price.

Go to Dell and configure a PC with the exact same or equivalent hardware, (monitor, graphics card, processor, HD and so on), and performance.

You will be surprised at which is more expensive.

Then there is the subjective which computer will have the longest effective and functional shelf life, the Mac or the PC?

Finally, regarding your excellent and insightful remarks in the part of your post not listed in this post, about Linux in the server and certain commercial markets or environment, remember we are responding to a home user asking about a new OS for a home or personal computer.