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GreenEnvy22

join:2011-08-04
St Catharines, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·ikTel Networks
reply to GirgleMirt

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

While I hate bell with a passion seldom seen in life, in this case you do need to understand the different technologies at play.
ADSL and VDSL are served by somewhat different infrastructure. So on their old ADSL system you can only get 3 meg, even though you pay for 6. I agree you should get a discount if they can only put you on a lower profile, but thats unlikely to happen.

On VDSL, you might be able to get the whole 25/10, because the network it runs on is somewhat different. Maybe you can't, maybe you can only get the 10/7, or even less, but it's not like it's going to be a constant "you can only get 50% of the rated speed". Maybe you max out at 9/5, switching you from the 10/7 to the 25/7 plan will still result in 9/5, so there would be no point to go to that higher tier (well maybe for higher monthly cap).

We had that exact situation at our office. Our 6meg/800k service could only run on the 3meg profile. Once we heard VDSL was available, we inquired and found we could do the full 25/10 (well 25/7 on business).


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to GirgleMirt

rofl, It can offer 6 You just live to far from the C/o which is where 6 is offered from, if you want to order 15 or 25 you will be moved to the remote which offers it and magically u will get 15 or 25. its as simple as that. You either pay up or accept the limitations of your speed based on distance. The remote is Not for customers such as yourself on basic Service its for the ones who cannot phsyically get the 15 or 25 from the c/o
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


GeoStar

join:2011-02-10
j2e6f5

1 edit

Seems I only get 3 mbits also though 6 is promised ,

can I pay half of the bill if I promise the whole amount to that olde corporate pirate hell ?


Nitra

join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nope, that's why Bell and the other DSL providers always say the speed is "Up to".


GeoStar

join:2011-02-10
j2e6f5
reply to GirgleMirt

I guess that makes it ok what ever they say

but If I were to pay like they serve I go to jail ?

Wonder why



FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom

You are paying for a DSL connection with speeds up to 6Mbps. Your ISP will pay Bell the same lb of flesh whether you're getting 2Mbps or 5.1Mbps (that's around the maximum for a 6Mbps connection as it has 15% overhead) and if they gave you a 50% discount, they'd be losing money on you, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any discounts. Upgrade, move to cable or deal with it. Those are your options.
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw

Expand your moderator at work

GirgleMirt

join:2002-11-01
Saint-Laurent, QC
reply to GirgleMirt

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

I find the whole thing distasteful. 1) the way Bell conducts its business and 2) the way people seemed to have grown accustomed to it and defend it.

1) If Bell cannot provide its customers with 6mbps service, it's reprehensible to advertise such a service. If all they can provide their customers is a 2-5mbps service, that's what they should advertise. If Bell can only provide a customer with 2mbps, then it should not charge the same as a customer who's getting 2.5 times more bandwidth; 5mbps.

Simple, Bell should have tiers, price for 2mbps, 3mbps, 4mbps and 5mbps, and it should advertise it as such. If you can't get 5mbps, then ok, why should you pay the same as someone who's getting 5mbps?

2) How can the CRTC and consumers stand for this "up to" bullshit? I'm surprised there's not a lot more noise about this because frankly it's infuriating.

Take telephone. There's no such bullshit, everybody gets the same service and pays the same price. Now because one lives 'farther' to a Bell host they should pay more, or get a shittier telephone service? Electricity? Oh, sorry, you're a bit farther from Hydro station, your electricity sucks and if you want the same electricity as everybody else, pay 2x as much?



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:22

said by GirgleMirt:

Simple, Bell should have tiers, price for 2mbps, 3mbps, 4mbps and 5mbps, and it should advertise it as such. If you can't get 5mbps, then ok, why should you pay the same as someone who's getting 5mbps?

The tariff prices of 6 meg and 50 meg are pretty much the same (maybe a dollar between the FTTN 6 and 25 meg services), so there's no point in Bell offering this. The fixed costs don't change based on speed, they consider all the costs of maintaining the physical line, the DSLAM port, all that stuff. The speed component is paid for based on the CBB charges.

In other words, even if you could be sold a 2 megabit tier instead of 6 megabit, the fixed costs would be identical, and you wouldn't save any money (unless your ISP chose to price out typical usage for the slower speed differently). There's nobody stopping an ISP from selling services based on actual speed rather than sync speed.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to GirgleMirt


Bells latest filing from January 28.
»crtc.gc.ca/public/8740/2013/b2/1829770.zip

--

said by GirgleMirt:

Simple, Bell should have tiers, price for 2mbps, 3mbps, 4mbps and 5mbps, and it should advertise it as such. If you can't get 5mbps, then ok, why should you pay the same as someone who's getting 5mbps?

ISPs do not only base their price on speed, speed is only a factor the cost of service is mostly the capacity.

GirgleMirt

join:2002-11-01
Saint-Laurent, QC

4 edits
reply to GirgleMirt

I've had the same DSL service for almost 10 years, the bell monthly cost for the equipment, over 10 friggin years, doesn't come anywhere close to the 4000$ or whatever I've paid so far... The hardware has been paid a long time ago, and the maintenance is frankly negligible considering the monthly cost of the service.

Fact is it's nowhere near costing Bell 25$ a month for one DSL card... NOWHERE NEAR... So going by the assumption that 2 or 5 mbps cost 25$ or the same for Bell, and so bell should charge the same, is ridiculous.

Fact of the matter is that if you offer 5mbps internet to X customers, EVERY customer should get the same deal, those who get less than half the speed aren't getting the same deal, and they shouldn't pay as much. It doesn't matter if both connections cost 50 cents per month to Bell (and I doubt it costs significantly more...), it's besides the question. It's about equality and getting what you're paying for.

Imagine if some cellphone customers could only talk 50 minutes per month instead of 150 because they were further from a Rogers antenna... It would be fucking ridiculous, as are these 'up to 6mbps' dsl connections...

If I get a 200$ tax return because my social number ends with a 1 while my neighbor gets 500$ because his ends with a 3, which is as arbitrary as "how far are you from A", it would be BS. Same goes for DSL service.

It's about delivering the product you are selling. IF you can't provide a 6mbps connection, don't sell it. Only giving access to a portion of your customer base to 5mbps is asinine if you're charging the same amount of money to others for a shitty 2.5mbps connection...

Again, bell is shit. We have some of the worst internet on teh fuckign planet, and not only is it the worst, it's some of the most expensive... WTF is wrong with Bell & their shitty service, no reason besides greed & incompetence that we have such shitty service. It's fucking shameful.

My internet is rated 'D' by speedtest.net... 'D' FFS ... And the f***** clowns at Bell don't give a shit, and continue to sell their piece of shit "up to X" service, happy with their duopoly with Cable internet... And there's no way out... Any dsl provider goes through bell, and going with Cable would cost me it seems around 275$ in setup fees, and I don't doubt I'd get equally shitty service going through Videotron, with pings going up during peak hours, transfer speeds going down, and a bunch of other issues...

It's a f'n joke...

Or take water. If you got half the flow of water because you're farther from the town's water pump... And so it would just drip slowly and be much worst than others who just happen to be closer to the arbitrarily placed water pumps... You'd have to wait 12 seconds to fill up a glass of water instead of 5, or take 15 minutes to fill a bath instead of 6 or whatnot... Your toilet wouldn't flush well... Again, it would not pass...

Why does it pass for internet? Why do some customers get a shitty service compared to others? Because Bell is too cheap and greedy to build a fucking decent infrastructure? Yes? Why are consumers accepting that? Why is there not more noise & pressure on Bell to provide a decent service?


GirgleMirt

join:2002-11-01
Saint-Laurent, QC

1 edit
reply to GirgleMirt

And FWIW... (at this point not much because it seems that nothing will be done and I'll be stuck with my shitty 2.4mbps crap internet connection, since I'm not interested in the least in those interleave shitty pings)

> dsl show rate
Data Path : Interleaved
Downstream Bit Rate : 3840 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate : 800 Kbps

> dsl show perf
Downstream :
Noise Margin : 10.5 dB
Attenuation : 31.0 dB
Output Power : 21
Upstream :
Noise Margin : 6.0 dB
Attenuation : 21.5 dB
Output Power : 10


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to GirgleMirt

ROFL whats absolutely the best about that your modem stats suggest Line issues 21 Up attenuation suggests less than 2 kilometers to the Slam. P:) hence 6 meg should be easy. but On a side note Bell Does not advertise 5 meg or 6 meg They advertise as u suggest UP to which is what they can offer. unless u would like there website to have a package for every single profile in the system which would amount to over 100 packages, Now if you truely Cannot get more than 2.5 mbps perhaps you should Opt to signup for a up to 2.5 meg Speed connection to save the Money. and alot of those connections also have Unlimited quite cheaply
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


GirgleMirt

join:2002-11-01
Saint-Laurent, QC

So the bell distance issue is bullshit and I have line issues? Lol what a surprise.. Thats why I said bell is shit, a bell tech left a message sayin I was too far fir anytging more than 4mbps, which turns out to be 3.2 in actuality for download speeds.... So suggestions?



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:22
reply to GirgleMirt

Want more speed? Switch to one of the FTTN service tiers if you qualify. You'll be put on a remote.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to GirgleMirt

said by GirgleMirt:

So the bell distance issue is bullshit and I have line issues?

Distance or noise, all that matters at the end of the day is SNRM and at only 10dB margin on downstream, you are pretty much at the limit. Since you are on legacy-GAS DSL, Bell has no obligation to move you to a remote.

As Guspaz and others have said, the only way to force Bell to move you to a remote (if available) is to upgrade to ADSL2/VDSL2 speeds. The other alternative is switching to cable.

GirgleMirt

join:2002-11-01
Saint-Laurent, QC
reply to GirgleMirt

Alright thats what ill probably end up doing (10M dsl2).... 4-5$ extra per month, 100$ setup fees blow though...



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to GirgleMirt

said by GirgleMirt:

So the bell distance issue is bullshit and I have line issues?

You appear to have a noise issue on the line.

At that attenuation of 31, you have the speed for someone on a clean line with an attenuation of around 47.

You will want to capture the stats again a few times over the course of a day to see if the noise margin is jumping around, and sometimes in the case of a short, attenuation values can jump. So keep an eye on the values to see how much they change over a day.

You will also want to check different jacks in the house. Ideally, if you can test at the demarc and pull the stats this would be best. This would eliminate your house wiring as an issue.

Normally noise margin will drop about a max of 3 points when going from interleave to Fast. In your case that would be borderline connection issues. So not worth it.

If you aren't a gamer, then stay as is.

If you are a gamer, then I guess you want that extra ping response. Bell won't go out and fix an issue like this, unless your stats are jumping around, or affect phone (if you have phone). It's the wire-pair you are on, or your house wiring.

The alternative to you checking if it's your house wiring, cuz we determined you are lazy on the previous page, is to call your ISP and ask him to get your speed lowered to a 3008/800 profile with Fast path. This you would be able to handle w/o issue, provided your stats aren't jumping all over the place.

At a 31 attenuation you should have 5-meg, but that would require you to check your house wiring before pushing your ISP to put you on a diff wire-pair by Bell. And Bell may not bother. Depends on how much your ISP can push the issue.

And that is the nature of shitty DSL.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

Want more speed? Switch to one of the FTTN service tiers if you qualify. You'll be put on a remote.

He's better off changing to cable. I *think* the best price going so far is w/ teksavvy.

24.95/month for 5-meg cable, 300-gigs. Or about 5$ more for unlimited.

He's been paying Bell or Bell-resellers for a decade and has had crap. Time to toss Bell to the street and never look back.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX

Well First things first the downstream attenuation is not what ya look at for distance, you look at the upstream atten, his is 21.5 so it suggests around 2.5 clicks at the far end usally but there could be bridge taps who knows what on his line so he could have any number of issues. so yes i would vote line problem of some sort what kinda i Dunno have u plugged directly to the demarc to check if its internal? before u order a Tech and Get dinged.?
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


GeoStar

join:2011-02-10
j2e6f5
reply to GirgleMirt

And that is the nature of shitty DSL.

its not a marketing ploy?

like, paid shills and hell mothpieces to just make people give up and pay more for nothing ?

oyoyoyoyoyooy


GirgleMirt

join:2002-11-01
Saint-Laurent, QC
reply to GirgleMirt

Thanks ! Yeah I'm pretty sure I'll go with cable now, I've not heard from Velcom for two days, and the last test they had me do was disconnect all phones & plug modem directly on the wall, then test speeds... Not better. If it didn't work, they were supposed to ask Bell to put back fastpath, nothing since then, still interleave...

So probably Teksavvy 32$ 7mbps 300 gigs plan & IP phone service. Or maybe 14mbps 300gigs for 38$, hmm... Anyhow, I'll see. Time to ditch Bell for good! Actually, I should have done this sooner... I guess when I joined Velcom some years ago these plans weren't available yet, or I missed them somehow...

Thanks for the help all!

Oh, so what kinds of pings should I expect with cable? What about downloads and uploads? One thing with Velcom, 300KB/s was always available plus connection was stable and pings were decent (13ms 1st hop), no matter the time of the day.



JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by GirgleMirt:

So probably Teksavvy 32$ 7mbps 300 gigs plan & IP phone service. Or maybe 14mbps 300gigs for 38$, hmm... Anyhow, I'll see. Time to ditch Bell for good! Actually, I should have done this sooner... I guess when I joined Velcom some years ago these plans weren't available yet, or I missed them somehow...

You're looking at the prices/plans for Ontario, switch your province to Quebec as the plans/prices are different.

GirgleMirt

join:2002-11-01
Saint-Laurent, QC

Damn... Nice catch! You're absolutely right... The Qc plans are worst... Much worst... an 8mbps plan & 75 gigs for 30$, 300 gigs is 40$... 20mbps 75 gigs is 40$ and 50$ for 300 gigs...

Damn, so this blows, 75 gigs isn't enough, 300 gigs more expensive... Bleh, there is indeed the 5mbps 300 gigs for 25$, but it's upload is 1mbps, hmm, not bad, we might have a winner. It's not 10mbps, but it would be a clear upgrade from Velcom/Bell dsl! Faster AND cheaper!!!

Velcom: 8mbps 300 gigs 40$, only 3mbps 25$...



JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed

The speed for the 8Mbps plan is supposed to go up to 10Mbps but I'm not sure if new TekSavvy customers are getting that speed upgrade right now or not, the best would be to post in the TekSavvy forum and ask.

One thing I would recommend if you go with cable is to spend a little bit extra and buy a Docsis 3 modem instead of a Docsis 2 as the as the Docsis 3 modem will allow you to upgrade to the faster speed tiers.


ShetiPhian

join:2011-12-29
Belleville, ON
reply to GirgleMirt

GirgleMirt Bell is a plague but we'll never be able to purge them.
They will lie and mislead as long as it makes/saves them money.

I can barely sync at 3.5 yet follow one wire two blocks and the sync is a strong 7.

Problem isn't in my house (all new wire) nor is it the wire to my dmarc (also new, dmarc is new also)
The wire from neighbour hoods box to the next one (two blocks away) is junk.
The technician found most of the pairs to be dead and several lines are using a wire form two separate pairs just to work. Insulation is rotting away and several bridge taps exist.
He filed a report and a line tech came out and confirmed the poor state, and proceeded to get authorization for replacement.
It was denied due to upgrades for the area being scheduled within the next 3 years.

That was back in September of 2010
I've called Bell this year to get an ETA about for fibe service (figure these are the upgrades referred to as nothing has been done yet)

I was informed Belleville is on no upgrade list whatsoever so it will not be this year. (yet this September makes the end of the "within three years")

Belleville isn't a little town is the middle of nowhere either (401 - 30-45min west of Kingston) and I'm almost in the middle of it.


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
reply to GirgleMirt

Not sure price wise how they measure up on cable but DSL wise Ebox is a great Choice for ontario girglemirt take a look.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.