Topic 'Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?' in forum 'Canadian Broadband' - dslreports.com

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Sun, 10 Feb 2013 23:21:14 EDT

morisato posted : Not sure price wise how they measure up on cable but DSL wise Ebox is a great Choice for ontario girglemirt take a look.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Fri, 08 Feb 2013 23:51:04 EDT

ShetiPhian posted : GirgleMirt Bell is a plague but we'll never be able to purge them.
They will lie and mislead as long as it makes/saves them money.

I can barely sync at 3.5 yet follow one wire two blocks and the sync is a strong 7.

Problem isn't in my house (all new wire) nor is it the wire to my dmarc (also new, dmarc is new also)
The wire from neighbour hoods box to the next one (two blocks away) is junk.
The technician found most of the pairs to be dead and several lines are using a wire form two separate pairs just to work. Insulation is rotting away and several bridge taps exist.
He filed a report and a line tech came out and confirmed the poor state, and proceeded to get authorization for replacement.
It was denied due to upgrades for the area being scheduled within the next 3 years.

That was back in September of 2010
I've called Bell this year to get an ETA about for fibe service (figure these are the upgrades referred to as nothing has been done yet)

I was informed Belleville is on no upgrade list whatsoever so it will not be this year. (yet this September makes the end of the "within three years")

Belleville isn't a little town is the middle of nowhere either (401 - 30-45min west of Kingston) and I'm almost in the middle of it.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Thu, 07 Feb 2013 20:13:05 EDT

JCohen posted : The speed for the 8Mbps plan is supposed to go up to 10Mbps but I'm not sure if new TekSavvy customers are getting that speed upgrade right now or not, the best would be to post in the TekSavvy forum and ask.

One thing I would recommend if you go with cable is to spend a little bit extra and buy a Docsis 3 modem instead of a Docsis 2 as the as the Docsis 3 modem will allow you to upgrade to the faster speed tiers.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Thu, 07 Feb 2013 19:31:37 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : Damn... Nice catch! You're absolutely right... The Qc plans are worst... Much worst... an 8mbps plan & 75 gigs for 30$, 300 gigs is 40$... 20mbps 75 gigs is 40$ and 50$ for 300 gigs...

Damn, so this blows, 75 gigs isn't enough, 300 gigs more expensive... Bleh, there is indeed the 5mbps 300 gigs for 25$, but it's upload is 1mbps, hmm, not bad, we might have a winner. It's not 10mbps, but it would be a clear upgrade from Velcom/Bell dsl! Faster AND cheaper!!!

Velcom: 8mbps 300 gigs 40$, only 3mbps 25$...

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Thu, 07 Feb 2013 18:44:45 EDT

JCohen posted :

said by GirgleMirt:

So probably Teksavvy 32$ 7mbps 300 gigs plan & IP phone service. Or maybe 14mbps 300gigs for 38$, hmm... Anyhow, I'll see. Time to ditch Bell for good! Actually, I should have done this sooner... I guess when I joined Velcom some years ago these plans weren't available yet, or I missed them somehow...

You're looking at the prices/plans for Ontario, switch your province to Quebec as the plans/prices are different.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Thu, 07 Feb 2013 18:17:24 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : Thanks ! Yeah I'm pretty sure I'll go with cable now, I've not heard from Velcom for two days, and the last test they had me do was disconnect all phones & plug modem directly on the wall, then test speeds... Not better. If it didn't work, they were supposed to ask Bell to put back fastpath, nothing since then, still interleave...

So probably Teksavvy 32$ 7mbps 300 gigs plan & IP phone service. Or maybe 14mbps 300gigs for 38$, hmm... Anyhow, I'll see. Time to ditch Bell for good! Actually, I should have done this sooner... I guess when I joined Velcom some years ago these plans weren't available yet, or I missed them somehow...

Thanks for the help all! :D

Oh, so what kinds of pings should I expect with cable? What about downloads and uploads? One thing with Velcom, 300KB/s was always available plus connection was stable and pings were decent (13ms 1st hop), no matter the time of the day.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Thu, 07 Feb 2013 14:13:34 EDT

GeoStar posted : And that is the nature of shitty DSL.

its not a marketing ploy? :o

like, paid shills and hell mothpieces to just make people give up and pay more for nothing ?

oyoyoyoyoyooy :p

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 22:11:34 EDT

morisato posted : Well First things first the downstream attenuation is not what ya look at for distance, you look at the upstream atten, his is 21.5 so it suggests around 2.5 clicks at the far end usally but there could be bridge taps who knows what on his line so he could have any number of issues. so yes i would vote line problem of some sort what kinda i Dunno have u plugged directly to the demarc to check if its internal? before u order a Tech and Get dinged.?
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 15:08:31 EDT

anon posted :

said by Guspaz:

Want more speed? Switch to one of the FTTN service tiers if you qualify. You'll be put on a remote.

He's better off changing to cable. I *think* the best price going so far is w/ teksavvy.

24.95/month for 5-meg cable, 300-gigs. Or about 5$ more for unlimited.

He's been paying Bell or Bell-resellers for a decade and has had crap. Time to toss Bell to the street and never look back.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 15:05:05 EDT

anon posted :

said by GirgleMirt:

So the bell distance issue is bullshit and I have line issues?

You appear to have a noise issue on the line.

At that attenuation of 31, you have the speed for someone on a clean line with an attenuation of around 47.

You will want to capture the stats again a few times over the course of a day to see if the noise margin is jumping around, and sometimes in the case of a short, attenuation values can jump. So keep an eye on the values to see how much they change over a day.

You will also want to check different jacks in the house. Ideally, if you can test at the demarc and pull the stats this would be best. This would eliminate your house wiring as an issue.

Normally noise margin will drop about a max of 3 points when going from interleave to Fast. In your case that would be borderline connection issues. So not worth it.

If you aren't a gamer, then stay as is.

If you are a gamer, then I guess you want that extra ping response. Bell won't go out and fix an issue like this, unless your stats are jumping around, or affect phone (if you have phone). It's the wire-pair you are on, or your house wiring.

The alternative to you checking if it's your house wiring, cuz we determined you are lazy on the previous page, is to call your ISP and ask him to get your speed lowered to a 3008/800 profile with Fast path. This you would be able to handle w/o issue, provided your stats aren't jumping all over the place.

At a 31 attenuation you should have 5-meg, but that would require you to check your house wiring before pushing your ISP to put you on a diff wire-pair by Bell. And Bell may not bother. Depends on how much your ISP can push the issue.

And that is the nature of shitty DSL.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 14:34:38 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : Alright thats what ill probably end up doing (10M dsl2).... 4-5$ extra per month, 100$ setup fees blow though...

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 13:09:32 EDT

InvalidError posted :

said by GirgleMirt:

So the bell distance issue is bullshit and I have line issues?

Distance or noise, all that matters at the end of the day is SNRM and at only 10dB margin on downstream, you are pretty much at the limit. Since you are on legacy-GAS DSL, Bell has no obligation to move you to a remote.

As Guspaz and others have said, the only way to force Bell to move you to a remote (if available) is to upgrade to ADSL2/VDSL2 speeds. The other alternative is switching to cable.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 12:11:38 EDT

Guspaz posted : Want more speed? Switch to one of the FTTN service tiers if you qualify. You'll be put on a remote.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Wed, 06 Feb 2013 11:59:12 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : So the bell distance issue is bullshit and I have line issues? Lol what a surprise.. Thats why I said bell is shit, a bell tech left a message sayin I was too far fir anytging more than 4mbps, which turns out to be 3.2 in actuality for download speeds.... So suggestions?

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 22:55:27 EDT

morisato posted : ROFL whats absolutely the best about that your modem stats suggest Line issues 21 Up attenuation suggests less than 2 kilometers to the Slam. P:) hence 6 meg should be easy. but On a side note Bell Does not advertise 5 meg or 6 meg They advertise as u suggest UP to which is what they can offer. unless u would like there website to have a package for every single profile in the system which would amount to over 100 packages, Now if you truely Cannot get more than 2.5 mbps perhaps you should Opt to signup for a up to 2.5 meg Speed connection to save the Money. and alot of those connections also have Unlimited quite cheaply
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 19:38:06 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : And FWIW... (at this point not much because it seems that nothing will be done and I'll be stuck with my shitty 2.4mbps crap internet connection, since I'm not interested in the least in those interleave shitty pings)

> dsl show rate
Data Path : Interleaved
Downstream Bit Rate : 3840 Kbps
Upstream Bit Rate : 800 Kbps

> dsl show perf
Downstream :
Noise Margin : 10.5 dB
Attenuation : 31.0 dB
Output Power : 21
Upstream :
Noise Margin : 6.0 dB
Attenuation : 21.5 dB
Output Power : 10

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 19:15:26 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : I've had the same DSL service for almost 10 years, the bell monthly cost for the equipment, over 10 friggin years, doesn't come anywhere close to the 4000$ or whatever I've paid so far... The hardware has been paid a long time ago, and the maintenance is frankly negligible considering the monthly cost of the service.

Fact is it's nowhere near costing Bell 25$ a month for one DSL card... NOWHERE NEAR... So going by the assumption that 2 or 5 mbps cost 25$ or the same for Bell, and so bell should charge the same, is ridiculous.

Fact of the matter is that if you offer 5mbps internet to X customers, EVERY customer should get the same deal, those who get less than half the speed aren't getting the same deal, and they shouldn't pay as much. It doesn't matter if both connections cost 50 cents per month to Bell (and I doubt it costs significantly more...), it's besides the question. It's about equality and getting what you're paying for.

Imagine if some cellphone customers could only talk 50 minutes per month instead of 150 because they were further from a Rogers antenna... It would be fucking ridiculous, as are these 'up to 6mbps' dsl connections...

If I get a 200$ tax return because my social number ends with a 1 while my neighbor gets 500$ because his ends with a 3, which is as arbitrary as "how far are you from A", it would be BS. Same goes for DSL service.

It's about delivering the product you are selling. IF you can't provide a 6mbps connection, don't sell it. Only giving access to a portion of your customer base to 5mbps is asinine if you're charging the same amount of money to others for a shitty 2.5mbps connection...

Again, bell is shit. We have some of the worst internet on teh fuckign planet, and not only is it the worst, it's some of the most expensive... WTF is wrong with Bell & their shitty service, no reason besides greed & incompetence that we have such shitty service. It's fucking shameful.

My internet is rated 'D' by speedtest.net... 'D' FFS ... And the f***** clowns at Bell don't give a shit, and continue to sell their piece of shit "up to X" service, happy with their duopoly with Cable internet... And there's no way out... Any dsl provider goes through bell, and going with Cable would cost me it seems around 275$ in setup fees, and I don't doubt I'd get equally shitty service going through Videotron, with pings going up during peak hours, transfer speeds going down, and a bunch of other issues...

It's a f'n joke... :mad:

Or take water. If you got half the flow of water because you're farther from the town's water pump... And so it would just drip slowly and be much worst than others who just happen to be closer to the arbitrarily placed water pumps... You'd have to wait 12 seconds to fill up a glass of water instead of 5, or take 15 minutes to fill a bath instead of 6 or whatnot... Your toilet wouldn't flush well... Again, it would not pass...

Why does it pass for internet? Why do some customers get a shitty service compared to others? Because Bell is too cheap and greedy to build a fucking decent infrastructure? Yes? Why are consumers accepting that? Why is there not more noise & pressure on Bell to provide a decent service?

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 17:41:32 EDT

JCohen posted : »crtc.gc.ca/public/8740/2013/b2/1829770.zip

--

said by GirgleMirt:

Simple, Bell should have tiers, price for 2mbps, 3mbps, 4mbps and 5mbps, and it should advertise it as such. If you can't get 5mbps, then ok, why should you pay the same as someone who's getting 5mbps?

ISPs do not only base their price on speed, speed is only a factor the cost of service is mostly the capacity.

Bells latest filing from January 28.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 17:37:58 EDT

Guspaz posted :

said by GirgleMirt:

The tariff prices of 6 meg and 50 meg are pretty much the same (maybe a dollar between the FTTN 6 and 25 meg services), so there's no point in Bell offering this. The fixed costs don't change based on speed, they consider all the costs of maintaining the physical line, the DSLAM port, all that stuff. The speed component is paid for based on the CBB charges.

In other words, even if you could be sold a 2 megabit tier instead of 6 megabit, the fixed costs would be identical, and you wouldn't save any money (unless your ISP chose to price out typical usage for the slower speed differently). There's nobody stopping an ISP from selling services based on actual speed rather than sync speed.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 17:31:40 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : I find the whole thing distasteful. 1) the way Bell conducts its business and 2) the way people seemed to have grown accustomed to it and defend it.

1) If Bell cannot provide its customers with 6mbps service, it's reprehensible to advertise such a service. If all they can provide their customers is a 2-5mbps service, that's what they should advertise. If Bell can only provide a customer with 2mbps, then it should not charge the same as a customer who's getting 2.5 times more bandwidth; 5mbps.

Simple, Bell should have tiers, price for 2mbps, 3mbps, 4mbps and 5mbps, and it should advertise it as such. If you can't get 5mbps, then ok, why should you pay the same as someone who's getting 5mbps?

2) How can the CRTC and consumers stand for this "up to" bullshit? I'm surprised there's not a lot more noise about this because frankly it's infuriating.

Take telephone. There's no such bullshit, everybody gets the same service and pays the same price. Now because one lives 'farther' to a Bell host they should pay more, or get a shittier telephone service? Electricity? Oh, sorry, you're a bit farther from Hydro station, your electricity sucks and if you want the same electricity as everybody else, pay 2x as much?

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 14:50:57 EDT

FiReSTaRT posted : You are paying for a DSL connection with speeds up to 6Mbps. Your ISP will pay Bell the same lb of flesh whether you're getting 2Mbps or 5.1Mbps (that's around the maximum for a 6Mbps connection as it has 15% overhead) and if they gave you a 50% discount, they'd be losing money on you, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any discounts. Upgrade, move to cable or deal with it. Those are your options.
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
�George Bernard Shaw

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 13:49:04 EDT

GeoStar posted : I guess that makes it ok what ever they say

but If I were to pay like they serve I go to jail ?

Wonder why :o

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 10:52:55 EDT

Nitra posted : Nope, that's why Bell and the other DSL providers always say the speed is "Up to".

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 09:48:08 EDT

GeoStar posted : Seems I only get 3 mbits also though 6 is promised ,

can I pay half of the bill if I promise the whole amount to that olde corporate pirate hell ? :p

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 09:16:35 EDT

morisato posted : rofl, It can offer 6 You just live to far from the C/o which is where 6 is offered from, if you want to order 15 or 25 you will be moved to the remote which offers it and magically u will get 15 or 25. its as simple as that. You either pay up or accept the limitations of your speed based on distance. The remote is Not for customers such as yourself on basic Service its for the ones who cannot phsyically get the 15 or 25 from the c/o
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 09:13:00 EDT

GreenEnvy22 posted : While I hate bell with a passion seldom seen in life, in this case you do need to understand the different technologies at play.
ADSL and VDSL are served by somewhat different infrastructure. So on their old ADSL system you can only get 3 meg, even though you pay for 6. I agree you should get a discount if they can only put you on a lower profile, but thats unlikely to happen.

On VDSL, you might be able to get the whole 25/10, because the network it runs on is somewhat different. Maybe you can't, maybe you can only get the 10/7, or even less, but it's not like it's going to be a constant "you can only get 50% of the rated speed". Maybe you max out at 9/5, switching you from the 10/7 to the 25/7 plan will still result in 9/5, so there would be no point to go to that higher tier (well maybe for higher monthly cap).

We had that exact situation at our office. Our 6meg/800k service could only run on the 3meg profile. Once we heard VDSL was available, we inquired and found we could do the full 25/10 (well 25/7 on business).

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 08:46:34 EDT

anon posted : I'm surprised there's no classactuon lawsuit against them for that... If you bought eggs and got up to 12 eggs but only got 6, or got an 'up to 50%' off but when purchased and later learned you only got 30%, it wouldn't fly.

We all realize 3m internet is much shittier than 6, faster is better, and bell knows this because it sells fasterplans. So why the 6m bullshit... If it cant offer 6, sell what you can offer. It's really a rippoff. Customers pay the same for less...

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 05:46:38 EDT

anon posted :

said by GirgleMirt:

It's bullshit...

"up to" is bullshit.

It's really bullshit.

Now this bullshit... *mad*

And this, my friends, are the FACTS of telecom in Canada.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 00:45:09 EDT

JCohen posted : Right now your internet is using ADSL, which is served from the central office AKA the CO, CO's are usually far from your house and because the length of the copper has to go a long distance your speed drops dramatically.

Any of the new tiers use either ADSL2 or VDSL2, these protocols are served from a remote and remotes are usually within 1 km at most from your house and because of this the speeds they support are much higher than what you can get from the central office.

The term "up to" is used by the broadband industry for residential internet because they do not provide any guarantee of service reliability or speed, so as long as you have a working connection and are able to access the internet they are providing you with service and legally their is nothing that you can do.

----

The new Bell 5/1Mbps speed profile is using the newer ADSL2 protocols and are being served from a remote.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 00:28:45 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : Alright, so let's pretend one second that this is how things work. I buy the service for "up to 15 mbps", then I get 5, oooh, you're paying for "up to" 15 mbps and you get 5, you want more than 5, pay for the 25... Ridiculous!

It's bullshit... I'm getting 1/2 of 6; 3 mbps, or 4 mbit with horrible latency... And you're saying the reason is that Bell wants more $$$ to give me the 6mpbs I should be getting in the first place? I'm already paying for 6mbps ..... I need to pay for 15 mbps so I get what ... ? 6? 7? Then what if I want the 15, I have to pay for 25? 30? And then I'll get what, half, which is 12.5? It's really ridiculous. Really god damn ridiculous...

Again, Velcom and smaller ISP's customers are getting screwed in the butt. If Velcom sells 6 mbps, it probably pays for 6 mbps. If it pays for 6 mbps, it should get 6 mbps so that the customers who pay them for 6 mbps get 6 mbps, and not only half... "up to" is bullshit. Yeah sure it's "up to", it's up to Bell whether or not I can get 6 mbps, and they obviously don't want to take the steps so that customers of their resellers get the 6 mbps, because they want people to buy it directly from them.

It's really bullshit. I was with bell 2 times, until they added 25gigs limits and I had to look for another provider, this happened twice. Now this bullshit... *mad*

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 23:43:15 EDT

JCohen posted :

said by GirgleMirt:

Why would I need to do that? I'm paying for a 6mbps service and I'm getting 3mbps, and you're saying that if I want 6mbps, the service I am paying for, I will need to purchase a more expensive plan. It's ridiculous...

No, you're paying for up to 6Mbps, legally they're providing you the service that you're paying for.

said by GirgleMirt:

Bell's excuse is that I'm too far from their station, yet, they could offer me speeds well beyond 3mbps or the 6mpbs I'm paying for, if I pay them money. It's extortion. I'm paying for 6 mbps, I should get 6 mbps. I shouldn't have to pay for 12mbps to get the 6 mbps I should already have...

The tiers that Bell offers uses what's known as a remote DSLAM, station as you call it and that is the only way you will be getting a faster speed. If you upgrade to a faster tier through a reseller you will be moved to a remote DSLAM.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 23:40:00 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : Why would I need to do that? I'm paying for a 6mbps service and I'm getting 3mbps, and you're saying that if I want 6mbps, the service I am paying for, I will need to purchase a more expensive plan. It's ridiculous...

Bell's excuse is that I'm too far from their station, yet, they could offer me speeds well beyond 3mbps or the 6mpbs I'm paying for, if I pay them money. It's extortion. I'm paying for 6 mbps, I should get 6 mbps. I shouldn't have to pay for 12mbps to get the 6 mbps I should already have...

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 23:28:21 EDT

JCohen posted : If you can qualify for all the service that you stated you will need to upgrade to one of the newer speed tiers that are offered by Bell wholesalers.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 21:46:14 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : Yeah I seem to qualify for all: »www.bell.ca/Bell_Internet/Internet_access

quote:
Bell Fibe Internet 5/1 - $29.95
Get download speeds of 5 Mbps, upload speeds of up to 1 Mbps and 15 GB of monthly usage.

Bell Fibe Internet 15/10 - $44.95
Get download speeds of 15 Mbps, upload speeds of up to 10 Mbps and 75 GB of monthly usage.

Bell Fibe Internet 25/10 - $49.95
Get download speeds of 25 Mbps, upload speeds of up to 10 Mbps and 125 GB of monthly usage.

These are the options it gave me after I entered my phone number... Is this what we're talking a about? In the old days it was Bell Sympatico, but I can't seem to find their services page...

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 21:36:46 EDT

Guspaz posted : What speeds do you qualify for on Bell's site? If you qualify for any of the faster FTTN speeds (15, 25, etc) then there is a closer remote to you, and you can get higher speeds.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 21:29:18 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : Actually, the 1st time I noticed the pings was simply because everything was less responsive. And a few minutes ago, I also noticed it felt less responsive, simply visiting usual sites.. I doubt it's placebo, but could be...

And 100% sure I'm on interleave, Velcom's tech confirmed it, and my pings tripling confirmed it too... And yeah, 100% sure I was on 3mbps fastpath.

I really don't think Velcom is at guilt for anything here, Bell handles the phone lines and makes the speed changes, Velcom just opens the ticket at Bell because they don't have access to these configs themselves. So 100% Bell's fault here. Anyhow, I'll see tomorrow before unplugging everything & getting the line stats...

quote:
Any particular DSA (Distribution Serving Area) is served by a single host (central) switching station. It may or may not be served by a remote. There is no "move to another host" possible, as your area will only have a single host.

It is likely that they removed the remote DSLAM port and you are now host served - hence the longer loop.

Your ISP might be able to request what's called an LTR (Line Transfer to a Remote).

Great info thanks HeadSpinning! (and others! ;)) I'll definitely keep that in mind!

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 21:14:38 EDT

anon posted : Well if only ping changed, then all they did was likely change you from fast path to interleave.

Your line stats will show if you can make the move back to fast-path or not.

Your ISP should have been able to tell you this.

Anyhow if you're too lazy to check and post line stats, then call your ISP and ask if you are on "fast path". If not, tell them to put you on fast path. If they say your line can't support it, then I would again suggest you look at your line stats yourself to determine this.

There does exist 3-meg fast path. But your line stats will determine if you can get it.

Best to arm yourself with some knowledge and know your stats when dealing with any ISP.

I take it you want the better ping times for gaming, right? If not then I wouldn't bother.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 21:12:25 EDT

HeadSpinning posted :

said by GirgleMirt:

hmm... ok, so basically, they'd have removed my remote? Or maybe moved me to another host?

Any particular DSA (Distribution Serving Area) is served by a single host (central) switching station. It may or may not be served by a remote. There is no "move to another host" possible, as your area will only have a single host.

It is likely that they removed the remote DSLAM port and you are now host served - hence the longer loop.

Your ISP might be able to request what's called an LTR (Line Transfer to a Remote).
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 21:07:24 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : hmm... ok, so basically, they'd have removed my remote? Or maybe moved me to another host?

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 21:06:19 EDT

HeadSpinning posted : A "host" is a central switching station. A "remote" is a smaller substation that is CLOSER to the subscribers, and thus allows for FASTER speeds for people who are too far from a "host" switching station.

Bell doesn't move some one to a "remote" to make them go slower - they do it to make them go faster.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 20:58:42 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : "3. Paste you modem stats. If you don't know how, do a search on this forum for your make/model modem, or write the make and model here and ask if anyone can help you pull the line stats."

Oh I thought you meant line quality test... Modem 1: GNet BB0050 (original), newer: alcatel speed touch home (like here) 8mpbs...

Aw I'd have to disconnect the router, connect directly to PC, etc.. Anyhow, I don't doubt I'm in a remote/distant Bell station, and that my line stats are crap and I can't go above 3mbps, the thing is that for a long time I wasn't, and Bell switched me when I was with a non-bell DSL ISP... When that happened, as I said, my ping to the 1st hop more than doubled; from 7-8ms to to 15ms... That's I believe when they moved my line or dsl card or whatnot...

We did that 'dance' once before, bell increasded the speed to 4mbps interleave, called when I realized pings went to hell, and it wouldn't work without interleave, so I told them I'd rather be at 3mbps with pings worth a damn than 4mbps with piss poor 33.6 modem pings... But as I said, I thought it might be the modem, which obviously it isn't.

Fact they moved me to a more distant Bell station explains everything, why the pings more than doubled for no reason, and why I can't get more than 3mbps...

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 20:43:37 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : 'interleave', thanks! Don't know why I kept saying asynchronous...

1. I've been with Bell since the first installment of dsl, which was originally 3mbit/s. This is when I bought my dsl modem, and have been on 3mbit/s since then. When they increased the speed, which was years ago, as I said, I thought my modem was the issue, and that is why it couldn't handle >3M without interleave... Wasn't too upset and didn't want to buy a new modem for 1mb/s... But now, things change, and faster would be much better.. They're advertising 6mbps... I'm at 3...

2. 100% correct, I had 13-15ms ping before the 'upgrade', now they're up to 45-50ms.

3. Ok, I'll give it a go (might take a few mins to 'open' the router)

4. Velcom. So far the Bell ticket hasn't gone through their system so they have to wait that Bell sets the ticket to fixed... I'm supposed to call them back tomorrow, but the tech basically told me yeah sometimes they put customers in more distant Bell stations (term?), and yeah if 4M isn't stable they'd have to put me on interleave, call back tomorrow when the ticket is in so we know they're done working on your line.

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 20:28:52 EDT

anon posted :

said by GirgleMirt:

I used to be with bell and had 8ms for the 1st hop. They they put download/upload limits, made me switch ISPs, and one day, the 1st hop more than doubled, to 15ms...

1. What speed did you have with bell? You negated to state this.

2. They likely have you on interleave, thus the higher pings.

3. Paste you modem stats. If you don't know how, do a search on this forum for your make/model modem, or write the make and model here and ask if anyone can help you pull the line stats.

4. What ISP are you with now? What did your current ISP say? Did you ever ask them to switch you from interleave Fast-Path? Or did you current ISP just blow you off?

Anyhow the line stats will help explain a lot...

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 20:19:33 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : Yep, 6016/800 service... That's pretty much bullshit. ISPs are paying bell to use their infrastructure, and Bell doesn't provide the customers with the download speed they're supposed to get because they moved their customers to a more distant location to make place for other customers? That's ridiculous...

So the fact would be that I'm close enough to a station, but Bell has decided to move me to a more distant remote, and that's why I'm getting poor speeds?

I'd like to hear what the CRTC would have to say about this... I'm also somewhat troubled/irritated that ISPs haven't seem to really do their just due in this. If some of their customers are getting ripped off by Bell by being moved to farther locations so that they get poor internet performance, they should have done the necessary things so this does not happen...

If this was water, or electricity, phone, or any other kind of service, this wouldn't have stood. Small ISPs selling dsl aren't, to my knowledge, purchasing a shittier dsl service than Bell customers... So why should some receive a shittier service? :mad:

Since I'm getting only 3mbit out of the 6 advertised, should I pay half? Should my ISP also pay half? How is it that because of Bell's reluctance to upgrade their infrastructure to provide a half decent service, customers are paying the price by not getting the product they should be getting?

It's really a shit service. If adsl can't handle >3M without interleave, I'm sorry but it's really pathetic. And again, I'm not far at all, right in Montreal island, in a highly populated residential area...

Re: Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 19:56:35 EDT

FiReSTaRT posted : If you're on the 6016/800 service, they'll keep you on a distant slam and put FTTN subs on the closer remote, whether they're theirs or a wholesaler's subs. That's because they get more $$$ for subs who paid up for better speeds.

Does Bell screws its reseller's customers?

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 18:41:25 EDT

GirgleMirt posted : So I'm with a non-bell dsl provider and I've been running 3mbit forever because 4mbit wasn't stable (they had to run interleave mode which ruined my pings). I thought it was because of my old BB0050 modem which might not have been adequate and couldn't handle >3mbit. 3mbit download wasn't a big deal...

I recently got a newer and more serious dsl modem, so I called to increase the speed, they increased to 4mbit, but put me on asynchronous once again, and I got a message by a bell technician telling me I was too far from the Bell station and 4mbit was all I was going to get...

I smell bullshit... I'm in a residential area and the only way I'd be 'too far' from the bell station was if they put me there willfully. I used to be with bell and had 8ms for the 1st hop. Then they put up download/upload limits which made me switch ISPs, and one day, the 1st hop more than doubled, to 15ms...

I'm thinking Bell just screws 3rd party dsl providers on purpose and moves them to further stations. So they: 1) get slower transfer speeds 2) get poorer pings. In other words, a poorer internet connection. This really blows.