| Beat them at their own game! CRTC = Canadians let Rogers Take Control.
The only way around this craziness is for all Canadians to band together by starting the first Non-profit ISP Co-operative. All registered members would own the ISP and all members would get unlimited service for cost + 5%. All profits go back into the co-op to improve service. The entire system is run by volunteer members to keep our costs down. Would work exactly the same way non-profit co-op housing does. Would you be willing to give a few hours of your time every month to keep your own ISP running, in exchange for the lowest cost possible for unrestricted use? I would! Anyone want to start the first non-profit ISP Co-op in Canada? I'm in! |
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 zacronPremium
join:2008-11-26
canada
 ·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to CRTC
Re: Beat them at their own game! said by CRTC :CRTC = Canadians let Rogers Take Control.
The only way around this craziness is for all Canadians to band together by starting the first Non-profit ISP Co-operative. All registered members would own the ISP and all members would get unlimited service for cost + 5%. All profits go back into the co-op to improve service. The entire system is run by volunteer members to keep our costs down. Would work exactly the same way non-profit co-op housing does. Would you be willing to give a few hours of your time every month to keep your own ISP running, in exchange for the lowest cost possible for unrestricted use? I would! Anyone want to start the first non-profit ISP Co-op in Canada? I'm in!
I could put about 1000 issues on the table with this but i don't want to be a "silly nanny".
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"Recognize, Realize, and Repent" |
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pcfxer
join:2006-12-11
Orleans, ON | reply to CRTC
Yes, yes...telecom engineers work for free all the time. |
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The biggest problem with this is the couple billion dollars required to get started on a reasonably large scale and paying interest on that loan.
The second biggest problem is red tape... neighborhood (NIMBY), municipal, provincial, federal, regulatory, legal, incumbents, taxes, trade unions, etc.
The third is you would need a small armada of fiber professionals and civil/construction/electrical engineers to build the outside plant and this is a full-time job if you want to get any remotely serious progress done, not a part-time volunteer thing. Same goes for most other jobs in billion+ dollars organization.
If professionals give some of their time to the co-op or accept a significant wage downgrade for service, they will end up paying far more than "cost+5%" for their internet, so this wouldn't be their real motivation for accepting the job.
Also, "cost+5%" may end up pretty costly as a 3rd-wire even if you tried to use as many interns as possible for tax credits and saving on wages. |
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| said by InvalidError:The biggest problem with this is the couple billion dollars required to get started on a reasonably large scale and paying interest on that loan.
Also, "cost+5%" may end up pretty costly as a 3rd-wire even if you tried to use as many interns as possible for tax credits and saving on wages.
Revenue Canada will volunteer free money and special tax refunds to keep it afloat... Wait a sec... didn't bell get that?
*scratches head* |
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| Yes... They most definitely did... More than once actually. |
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 GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:20 | reply to CRTC
Bell (and Videotron, Gaz Metro, and Hydro Quebec) is still the only company that gets guaranteed access to public property to install their network, able to dig up a city street any time they want even if the city wants to refuse.
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Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org |
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| yeah the only revolution that I could see happening is for down town communities to make there own distributed networks sharing connections to the Internet. the problem with this idea is the hardware and community interest in this sort of thing is as of yet lacking. If more people were interested or long range line of sight links were less weather dependant it would have a better chance. |
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·TekSavvy DSL
| reply to CRTC
I'm not sure you have any idea of the costs involved. Cost+5% isn't going to cut it, not by a long shot.
Engineers do not, and will not volunteer. They are more likely to donate a few hours at a food bank.
The best thing YOU can do, is leave the incumbents and stay with an already established IISP. Not perfect, but it's the best we have at this point. |
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| said by camelot:Engineers do not, and will not volunteer. Many engineers might volunteer (fostering social/community progress is supposed to be a core value for professional engineers) but the amount of time they can afford to spare for it would be insignificant next to the scale of this sort of project.
The biggest problem with part-timers is that between volunteering days, full-time engineers would likely advance files far enough that part-timers would spend most of their time simply catching up with everything that has happened since their last visit. |
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| reply to CRTC
Here's an interesting article on this subject.
»www.alliancedatacom.com/isp/so_you_want.asp |
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 ·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to CRTC
said by CRTC :CRTC = Canadians let Rogers Take Control.
The only way around this craziness is for all Canadians to band together by starting the first Non-profit ISP Co-operative.
There's already a cooperative out there:
»www.cooptel.qc.ca/en-indexe.php
It was formerly known as CAM back in the dialup days. |
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| Wouldn't it just be simpler to get people to drop Rogers?
If companies like Netflix saw Rogers as competition and offered tips on things like OTA and internet alternatives on their website then that would help. |
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TypeS
join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1 Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
2 edits | said by nettles :Wouldn't it just be simpler to get people to drop Rogers?
If companies like Netflix saw Rogers as competition and offered tips on things like OTA and internet alternatives on their website then that would help.
The problem is that as much as the majority of people on these forums loathe Rogers and Bell, they are never going to away.
Without the last might mile infrastructure from Rogers and Bell, third party providers wouldn't be able to operate.
Despite the novel idea behind the non-profit co-op ISP, they're rates are expensive and caps are the same or worse than the big 3. |
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How about just support a fair priced good service competitor with structure in place like Teksavvy? Sure, they're not everywhere yet but you not for profit all volunteer force certainly won't be either. |
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You know that coops can have paid employees. Even the elected members of the direction can be paid. Before broadband, I was a coop member of cam.org which did dial up internet services at a better price than anyone else in montreal and we had access to its books and had yearly meetings where you could elect new members to the direction, present yourself for a post or talk about anything publicly to the other members. The regular staff was paid and it was pretty big for the time. Then broadband appeared and all those phone line ISPs disappeared, coops as well as private ones.
With the new CRTC tariffs, it would be possible for a coop to be formed, but the initial costs are much higher than they were for dial up ISPs. You'd need to either get 5000+ people to contribute their first month just to get the fund to start building up a business. Then you'd have to do all the work of building a business with none of the potential rewards you'd get if it were your own.
Although I can see why some people think the proposition is far fetched, I don't think its ridiculous at all. If telecoms belonged to its users rather than to stock holders, they would favor their user's service quality over its quarterly profit reports. |
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·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to TypeS
said by TypeS:Despite the novel idea behind the non-profit co-op ISP, they're rates are expensive and caps are the same or worse than the big 3. Oh, I know. Just pointing out to the OP that the idea isn't new - it goes all the way back to the 90s, and it hasn't helped in any way with pricing/service. |
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Someone start a kickstarter project to see where it goes. Hey, at the least it will do is raise awareness and get the idea going. |
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 TwiztedZeroNine Zero Burp Nine SixPremium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:3
·TekSavvy Cable
| said by King Sull:Someone start a kickstarter project to see where it goes. Hey, at the least it will do is raise awareness and get the idea going.
Prolly have a better chance to get the Death Star built vs. this. lol
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----|- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -|----
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Twitter = Twizted Zero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca |
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