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vandergraff2

join:2005-10-17
Los Gatos, CA
reply to espaeth

Re: Netflix Super HD and alternatives

Quite right - Netflix decided to limit this to ISP's using Open Connect.

Netflix can just as easily decide to un-limit this - it is their call.

Some interesting articles on the topic from both sides

I like this quote from the article ''To use Crawford’s words, “the United States now has neither a competitive market for high-speed wired internet access nor government oversight.”

»www.policymic.com/articles/22841···-utility

Interview with Reed Hastings at the Washington post where he gives Netflix's position on developing their content, ISPs, Open Connect and other subjects.

»www.washingtonpost.com/business/···business


espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
reply to ropeguru
said by ropeguru:

I understand there are technical limitations involved in order to try and guarentee a good experience.

Just to be clear, the reasons this service isn't offered universally are purely financial, not technical.

Netflix has to pay higher transit costs to deliver the higher bitrate content to their subscriber base unless they can get the much cheaper direct connection to the ISP networks.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to wchillman
I know this is kind of an old thread, but just how do we convince Comcast to sign up when it will compete with their services? I do not see it happenning. Netflix needs to come up with a way to allow anyone to connect to this service. I understand there are technical limitations involved in order to try and guarentee a good experience. But I just do not see Comcast signing on.


mikeyts

@cox.net
reply to vandergraff2
We've been discussing the use of Unblock-US for getting Netflix Super HD video encodes in a thread at AVS Forum starting with this post. I've come up with a procedure which works for getting them with any 1080p-capable Netflix player that I have and posted it here. It's a PITA but do-able by the hardcore and determined .

vandergraff2

join:2005-10-17
Los Gatos, CA

1 recommendation

reply to espaeth
I have been using it for the last couple of days (taking advantage of their 7 day free trial). It is somewhat hit or miss whether you get the Super HD servers. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't.

One way to check is if you are able to play the 'Example Short 23.976' then you are connected to the SuperHD servers. You can see the streaming rate within the title and should ramp up to 5800 kbps if you have the bandwidth.

Another way to check is if your router is connecting to nflxvideo.net domain then you are connected to the Super HD servers.

When I do get Super HD it looks good on real titles. If this was reliable it might be worth 4.99 a month to get Super HD with Comcast - but for now (at least in my experience) it only works some of the time.


espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
reply to AnonMan
said by AnonMan :

Hmm.. So Netflix is just going by DNS hits...

As bigjoesmith See Profile pointed out above, unblock-us takes the DNS requests and generates replies that direct the traffic to their proxies.

It works because the data centers that unblock-us has its servers in have connectivity to the OpenConnect network, so the proxies are allowed via source IP.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to AnonMan
said by AnonMan :

Hmm.. So Netflix is just going by DNS hits... I dunno if this is good or bad.

Wonder how this will impact the long term use of third party DNS like google or OpenDNS... For now they seem not to work...

Based on my understanding of "How Things Work":

For Netflix access from ISPs not on Open Connect, Netflix, like other CDNs, routes you to one of their server farms based on the DNS you use; so you will likely be routed on third-party transit.

For Netflix access from ISPs on Open Connect, because the Netflix servers are located on the ISP transit network, you will be routed directly to their servers without leaving the ISP transit network.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Petermjjh

join:2005-04-03
Bloomfield Hills, MI
reply to AnonMan
I dont think they are going just by DNS hits. I feel like unblock-us is modifying some DNS packets, but I have no data to support this.

This morning I wasn't getting the same high bit-rates on my roku that I did yesterday morning. I know know if it was a fluke or netflix is working to stop this or what.


AnonMan

@comcast.net
reply to elkido122
Hmm.. So Netflix is just going by DNS hits... I dunno if this is good or bad.

Wonder how this will impact the long term use of third party DNS like google or OpenDNS... For now they seem not to work...


elkido122

join:2011-02-23
Folsom, CA
reply to wchillman
unlock it for us comcast people. come on comcast ha


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to Petermjjh
I don't need to pay an extra $4.99 a month for the 'unblock-us.com' service:

Open Connect on Sonic.net


Although I don't have a device which can utilize "Open Connect", I expect I won't be going through nLayer transit when I do.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Petermjjh

join:2005-04-03
Bloomfield Hills, MI
reply to wchillman
I signed up for a free trail at unblock-us.com. I can now get SuperHD on my roku via Comcast.

Since this is not a VPN service I dont need to worry about extra congestion points. I ran some tools to determine that the actual video payload data was coming directly from the Netflix CDN.

To use unblock-us.com all I had to do was change my DNS servers. I can confirm that this works with Roku and Comcast.

traceroute to 108.175.38.96 (108.175.38.96), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
 1  10.66.122.1 (10.66.122.1)  3.083 ms  0.795 ms  0.693 ms
 2  71.205.80.1 (71.205.80.1)  30.889 ms  23.862 ms  30.395 ms
 3  xe-10-3-0-32767-sur01.birmingham.mi.michigan.comcast.net (68.85.48.41)  10.535 ms  10.683 ms  108.110 ms
 4  te-0-11-0-1-ar01.pontiac.mi.michigan.comcast.net (69.139.254.17)  14.324 ms  12.920 ms  12.063 ms
 5  he-4-5-0-0-cr01.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.90.221)  21.509 ms  28.234 ms  23.632 ms
 6  be-12-pe03.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.84.190)  17.942 ms  16.422 ms  18.929 ms
 7  173.167.57.126 (173.167.57.126)  20.191 ms  21.759 ms *
 8  as2906.ae12.ar1.ord1.us.nlayer.net (69.31.111.142)  31.538 ms  29.433 ms  29.129 ms
 9  ipv4_1.lagg0.c041.ord001.ix.nflxvideo.net (108.175.38.96)  28.711 ms  57.989 ms  29.325 ms
 
 


AnonMan

@comcast.net
reply to tshirt
Careful about saying you would pay for upgrade... lol

Next thing you know Comcast will charge 7.99 for the feature to get SuperHD Netflix! lol


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
reply to wchillman
I'd put the $4.99 towards a speed upgrade.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to bradyr
said by bradyr:

According to netflix.com, superhd requires 5Mbps minimum and 7Mbps for highest quality stream.

As stated here:
»support.netflix.com/en/node/8731

Realistically, I'd say that you'd want a sustained rate of 8-10Mbps, for the superHD stream plus your normal background bull-roar.

I would concur with this observation.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


bradyr
Columbia College IT
Premium
join:2008-10-27
Sonora, CA
reply to pflog
According to netflix.com, superhd requires 5Mbps minimum and 7Mbps for highest quality stream.

Realistically, I'd say that you'd want a sustained rate of 8-10Mbps, for the superHD stream plus your normal background bull-roar.


pflog
Bueller? Bueller?
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
El Dorado Hills, CA
kudos:3
reply to bigjoesmith
Seems like it'd be prone to breakage if/when Netflix changes, well, anything on their end. And you'd still have to be tunneling the traffic through their servers, otherwise I don't see how it would work.

Sounds like when it works, it's great, but I question if it would work for everyone (depending on their datacenter presence) or how reliably it would work.

If I were the OP, I would not make an internet speed upgrade decision based on a week of trying this service, but that's just me.
--
"I drank what?" -Socrates

bigjoesmith

join:2000-11-21
Peoria, IL

2 edits
reply to pflog
I think unblock-us.com is a little different than just a straight VPN. It's hard to tell from their site, but I think they use a combination of altered DNS data and custom proxy services to offer something that differs from a regular VPN. unblock-us only works with services (e.g. like Netflix) that they have specifically coded for.

It may be something like the following: you enter Netflix.com into your browser: their DNS servers direct you not to the normal IPs for Netflix.com, but to a custom IP address, which is unblock-us's proxy for Netflix. They apparently proxy just a part of the communication with Netflix (perhaps the authentication), providing a US-based IP to the real Netflix service. The remainder of the communication, the actual streaming, happens direct, without have to go through their proxy. The advantage is that the Netflix communication goes at the speed of your internet connection and is not slowed by unblock-us's proxy/vpn service.

More details on how unblock-us actually works would be helpful, but they are keeping the information under wraps.

This link provides a bit of information on unblockus: »www.damonkohler.com/2012/03/unbl···ity.html


pflog
Bueller? Bueller?
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
El Dorado Hills, CA
kudos:3
reply to wchillman
said by wchillman:

Could very well be but I would like to try it fist before increasing the speed.

unblock-us.com is just a VPN. So while it's possible they have a Super HS presence that would work (I'm not sure, I haven't investigated), you'd be at their mercy as well as Comcast's. You would basically just be tunneling your traffic over the VPN so that the source address appears to be from somewhere other than Comcast IP space and which I assume would allow Netflix Super HD content to work if they have Open Connect. A VPN will also add some overhead, albeit a small amount.

You can certainly try it, but I suspect 6Mbps will not cut it for Super HD. You should make sure (if you do try out the trial) that you're truly getting Super HD content and it's not placebo effect.
--
"I drank what?" -Socrates

wchillman

join:2011-11-20
Gig Harbor, WA
reply to pflog
Could very well be but I would like to try it fist before increasing the speed.


pflog
Bueller? Bueller?
Premium,MVM
join:2001-09-01
El Dorado Hills, CA
kudos:3
reply to wchillman
I don't think 6Mbps is sufficient for Netflix Super HD bitrates. Even if it were only streaming at 5-6 Mbps, I think it would buffer quite a bit and be quite annoying.
--
"I drank what?" -Socrates

wchillman

join:2011-11-20
Gig Harbor, WA
So, I have been using the Roku 2 for some time now and have been quite pleased with it except for its inability to decode Dolby Digital 5.1 Plus. Last month I noticed some deterioration in video quality in the movies we watched on Netflix…like 1080p was now looking like 720p. I also noticed a slight reduction in bandwidth usage but that has never been a problem as we only use 50% of the cap. We have Comcast’s Performance Starter which is 6 down and 1 up. Vudu’s Network Speed Test shows that my 6/1 connection is sufficient to stream content in their highest quality (HDX) which, BTW, has been quiet good. I’m hopeful that Comcast will sign on to Open Connect so that we could watch some Netflix shows in Super HD. What are the options in the interim? I did some research on the internet and came up with this site: unblock-us.com. Reportedly their service can access Netflix Super HD even if your ISP does NOT join Netflix Open Connect. Their service requires a simple DNS change and costs $4.99/month but they also have a 7 day free trial. I was wondering if anybody in this forum has given them a try. If not this, what else is being considered?