O Canada! > Canadian > Canadian Chat > Diesel vs. gasoline for new car purchase

Diesel vs. gasoline for new car purchase

Quite simply if I could afford to, I'd buy diesel.
As your finding out, other than Volks, the pickings are slim for affordable diesel options in N.A.
In general, you can put many more km's on a diesel than gas engines.
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~ Project Hope ~

reply to Styvas
My dad's been beating the highway (something close to a 1000k /wk) for almost as long as I can remember... He swears by diesel.

His last 3 cars have been VW diesel's... A golf that he put 600k on, a Jetta that was at 300k when a deer committed suicide, and wrote it off; and a brand new Jetta TDI (maybe a month or so old now?)

Maintenance-wise, they are pretty simple... No plugs and wires, means tune-ups aren't required as often; or as involved. Routine maintenance is things like glow-plugs (every 3-5 years IIRC) and oil changes... Oil changes do tend to be a little more expensive, due to the larger volume of oil involved (turbo and cooler, as well as what's in the block) - but not crazy-expensive of anything. The rest is pretty routine (timing belts, brakes, tires, all the usual stuff)

The engines are exceptionally long lasting, and my Dad's not one for going overboard on maintenance - stretches his oil change intervals, etc...

Ford was supposed to be putting a 4.4 i6 diesel in the F150 last year... I was hoping and waiting and wanting that... But couldn't wait, after they pushed it out to '14 or later; and I couldn't justify going up to a 3/4t to get the PowerStroke...

I think small diesels are great - and very common in the rest of the world - it's more emissions then anything that make it a problem in North America, from what I understand.

reply to Styvas
I haver a 6.6L duramax in my Chev. Its a fuel pig. The newer North American trucks mileages are digusting. Most of that doesn't apply to a Euro buggy however.

I would look very closely at how much oil changes are for the model of car you are looking at and factor that into your costs. My truck costs over $100 for an oil change. 50K would be about 10 changes per year.
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Some hero's wear capes, mine wear combat boots.

I'd probably be looking at a used Jetta or Passat TDI wagon. I haven't started down the used car pricing road yet, so I might be unrealistic about what I can expect to pay. It's not a crisis yet with the current car, but it could come to a head soon if things start breaking down. I don't like some of the noises I'm hearing from under the hood these days, and the consumption has really increased in the last few weeks.

reply to Styvas
The TDI's hold their value - but they age well, too... I wouldn't be worried buying a 5-6 year old Jetta, personally.

I'd expect to pay 8-9k for an '05 Jetta TDI, probably on the upper end for a wagon... Just as a ballpark.

Edit - fat-fingered the prices - damn number-pad... at 5-6k for an '05, I'd be on it like a fat kid on a Smartie...

reply to Styvas
My Jeep is diesel and I get better fuel consumption than the same model with any Gas engine (you can get a 3.7l and 5l Hemi for my year and model in gas).

Mine is a 3l Turbo diesel and anything that has went wring with it has been either electrical or just a common thing (glow plug).

My gas mileage is not great 12l/100km on average because the vehicle is in 4wd at all times (no 2wd option otherwise I would save more on gas).
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"The hardest thing about any political campaign is how to win without proving that you are unworthy of winning." ~ Adlai E. Stevenson

I forgot to mention I have around 300k on the Jeep (6 years old) and the engine is running smooth

reply to Styvas
Rented a Renault diesel in Europe a year ago. Unreal mileage, very
very quiet for a diesel, pulled 3 adults and all the luggage up hills with
what seemed like no effort.

I understand the newly redesigned Mazda6 will be available with a
diesel in about 6 months.

I wish Ford would get off their butts and bring the Euro diesel over
for the Fiesta and Focus.

FaxCap

reply to LazMan

reply to FaxCap

reply to Styvas
Some of the downsides of diesel engines in Canada:

Lower tolerance for extreme cold weather. At -25 and below a cold diesel engine will be extremely hard to get running, unless you have an engine block heater plugged-in. Out in Alberta, when the temperature dips below -35 you'll see all the diesel trucks running in driveways through the night for that reason.

Noisier engines in general than gas engines. This isn't the case as much anymore since advancements in diesel engineering has reduced the engine noise, and gas engines are noisier than they used to be (especially on engines with direct fuel injection).

Exhaust gases smell. Bad. Especially when the engine gets older. Makes some people noxious.

Diesel prices, which used to be much lower that gasoline (almost half price) now pretty much keeps up or is slightly more expensive.

Diesel isn't available at all gas stations and when it is, it is often only one or two pumps, which may make refueling take much longer, especially if you have to wait for a specific car to get out of the way of the one pump.

Most diesel engines (even the turbo) lack top-end power. They generally have great torque but lower HP numbers than the same car with a gas engine. You might have to change the way you drive, or your expectations of performance.

Personally if more cars were available with a turbo diesel option I would certainly consider them but you do have to go in knowing what to expect.

reply to Styvas
everything you wanted to know about VW TDI but were afraid to ask
»www.tdiclub.com/

reply to Styvas
Not that this vehicle is priced where you'd like, but the technical details make worthwhile reading
»www.tc.gc.ca/eng/programs/enviro···2654.htm

This is a very comprehensive test with impressive results.

reply to Styvas
My dad had two different diesels, a VW Rabbit and a Nissan Sentra (87 last year they had it in Canada with a diesel). Both were great cars. They both had block heaters and we would plug them in overnight. If you were out somewhere for a long time in the cold, I would just let the glow plugs go a couple of times before I actually started it. Never had any problems starting either.

My dad drove from Port Hope to Montreal and back on under 1.5 tanks of fuel once in the Sentra.

He went with the diesels for the mileage. He worked in Pickering and had a Chev Suberban with a 350 and a 4 barrel carberator and it cost too much in fuel.
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The irony of common sense, it is not that common.
I cannot deny anything I did not say.
A kitten dies every time someone uses "then" and "than" incorrectly.
I mock people who give their children odd spelling of names.

reply to Styvas
At 60k km of driving per year you have already justified the costs of buying a diesel. Used diesel VWs usually come with a lot of mileage on them, this is because it's mainly people with your driving needs who buy them. If over 200k get the carbon buildup in the manifold cleaned and it will run like new. Also ensure that the timing belt is serviced regularly.

Enjoy 1000 km/tank.

reply to Styvas
when my parents were shopping for something to replace their 96 Camry, they ended up with a Jetta Wagon TDi...while the oil changes are about $100, they only need to be done about every 20,000 kms, whereas most gas cars recommend them every 6,000-8,000 kms, so it isn't really that much more to maintain.

an older VW TDi (2006 model year and earlier) are not "clean diesel" engines, so they will have more soot and smell from the exhaust...newer ones (2008 and newer) are all clean diesel engines and are comparable to gasoline exhaust (they have the same emissions requirements).

they do drive different...while diesel engines don't have that high revving engine characteristic, they make gobs or fantastic torque...personally, i much prefer it, as it means you don't need to rev the shit out of your vehicle to actually get it get moving quickly...aside from the "stigma", think about motorcycles...gas engines are like sport bikes, good power but high revving and diesel engines are like Harleys...not a lot of top end, but monstrous torque down low...it allows a more satisfying relaxed drive.

resale value on these cars is quite good, but the newer models are likely to more trouble free than the previous versions (of course, YMMV when it comes to used cars).

Chevy should be launching their diesel Cruze later this year (or next year) and Mazda is also launching theirs later this year...BMW also has a new one coming, and Mercedes offers their diesel in a number of models as well...in terms of "regular cars" though, VW is pretty much the sole choice...that's not necessarily a bad thing though, as VW has been making diesel cars forever, so they generally tend to be pretty good.
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

reply to FaxCap

For 50k a year, I'd definitely go with a diesel. Modern small diesels are clean, quiet and still economical while developing loads of torque. Even with older diesels I never had issues starting the car even at -35, but I'd run the glowplugs twice. Generally, you'll be able to find fuel wherever there are trucks, which is all over the place in any part of Canada. Small diesels have traditionally been sorely lacking on our market and I'm glad more manufacturers are putting them out there now. I think the biggest hole to be filled will be small pickups with 3l diesels. All the major manufacturers like Ford, Chrysler, GM and Nissan have small diesel trucks on other markets (loved driving the rented Chevy D-Max - needed a truck for a job I was doing for a client abroad), but they refuse to release them in North America.
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If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw