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Anav
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Dartmouth, NS
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reply to Anav

Re: IPTV Possible on USG??

Nice, so a 5 port managed switch?

ONT(modem) to switch on port 1, assign VLAN 34 on ports 1,2-4
for STB hookups and assign VLAN 35 on ports 1,5 for internet.

Hook up port 5 ethernet to USG Wan input?

By the way this is feedback on how the N56U does it which might make sense to you.

I can't speak on the set top box side.

As for the RT-N56U the switch chipset within it can be controlled from inside of Linux, so the custom firmware essentially tells it the VLANs on the WAN side, what to expose to the host, and what other ports belong to. For TV service port 4 is set to be untagged on the TV VLAN, and the WAN port is set to be tagged with 802.1p value set. The switch chipset takes care of the tagging/untagging and switches the packets.



Brano
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If you already have managed switch you can carve out 3 ports from it, no need for dedicated new switch.


Kirby Smith

join:2001-01-26
Derry, NH

Switch port carve-out: What a great idea. Not one I need right now, mind you, but a great idea if I ever need it.

kirby



Brano
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Well, with VLAN capable switch there are much more options that with a dumb switch.

As an example: At home I have 24 port VLAN capable switch.
I have 2 ports on VLAN1 for my WAN connection
- port 1 WAN in from modem
- port 2 WAN out to router
I have VLAN2 for my home network - multiple ports
I have VLAN3 for my guest network - multiple ports
Why bring WAN to a switch first? In my case for troubleshooting, this way I can mirror the WAN port to any other, put sniffer on it and see what's going on.
This is a pretty basic setup

In Anav's case, very similar setup. Bring the WAN in on one port / VLAN, tag it out for the STB on one port and on different port send it USG.



Anav
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Yes but I dont currently have a managed switch so I would need to get one.



Otto58

join:2001-02-26
Germany
reply to Anav

In Germany IGMPv3 should help.

»Re: USGs firmwares



Anav
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reply to Anav

Brano, JPedro, the expert states the following about the switch idea.....

The internet would work but the 802.1p priority value has to be set on any packets going to the TV VLAN, without that the TV part won't work. the switch would have to set it, not many can.



Brano
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Then get a switch that can


Kirby Smith

join:2001-01-26
Derry, NH
Reviews:
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reply to Anav

Well, the Cisco 200 series L2 switch (e.g. the SG-200-26 that I use) allows setting QOS (802.1p) to untagged frames as well as passing tagged frames as directed, but as I only just spent 30 seconds reading the intro to that part of the User Guide, one would have to study it in the context of what he needed to be sure it is sufficient. If memory serves, this switch was priced below a USG 50. (And it is rack mountable like the USG series without paying twice the price, unlike certain NAS and UPS one might want.)

I think this series goes down to 8 ports, but this is a dim memory at the moment.

kirby


JPedroT

join:2005-02-18
kudos:1
reply to Anav

To me that sounds just plain old dumb, the 802.1p bits are for priority. So it really should not have any bearing on wether IPTV works or not.
When saying that, of course the network provider might do something funky with frames that does not have the right p-bits set, but then its deliberate.
And who the F trusts QoS settings coming from a device in customers LAN.

Now if they actually mean 802.1q bits ie the switch needs to tag ingress traffic from the STB and untag egress traffic to the STB, then its logical. IE VLAN 35 and VLAN 34, also when you tag with VLAN's usually set the p-bit at the same time...

Any decent managed L2+ switch should be able to do what you need. Even the silly remarking of the p-bits if that is the case.

Should be adequate if I remember correctly

»www.zyxel.com/products_services/···html?t=p
--
"Perl is executable line noise, Python is executable pseudo-code."

Expand your moderator at work


Anav
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3 edits
reply to JPedroT

Re: IPTV Possible on USG??

Yes JP, silly but required, apparently the ISP filters out anything with less than 4? Purpose I have no idea.
I just need to find a smallish managed switch that can do the trick ie 5 port would be ideal.
- I looked at the Netgear GS105E but it "honours" .p tagging, it cannot actually tag the data so its the right size, price (when on sale) but cannot actually tag the data with QoS.
- I looked at the DLINK DGS1005D and YEAH it does 802.1p tagging of data packets but tis useless as does not do VLANS.

-The Dlink 8 port DGS 1100-8 looks promising in that it states it will assign prioirity for untagged data, but it only has word settings highest, high, medium, low (which they state is 8, 4, 2, 1 respectively so assuming i am looking for "high")



mozerd
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1 edit

The Netgear GS108T can actually apply tags

$80 from DirectCanada



Anav
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1 edit

Thanks Mozerd am just now looking at the 8 port possiblities
Cisco Small Business 200 Series Smart Switch SG200-08 for example seems like a likely candidate as does HP V1900-8G Switch
Also Zyxel GS2200-8



Anav
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reply to mozerd

said by mozerd:

The Netgear GS108T can actually apply tags

$80 from DirectCanada

I read through the user guide, one can set priorities of high normal low and lowest - equates to 8 levels of priority. Problem is nowhere can I find it APPLIES tags. All one seem to do is map ports which is not clear to me as it may just permit traffic of that setting first.
Dont get me wrong, this switch at that price point is fricken amazing I have a quadrillion questions regarding some of the other features I have never heard of. BUT, nothing I read says yup it allows me to tag packets outgoing from a port.
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment


Anav
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reply to Anav

I looked at the Direct Canada Site. The picture there is of an old switch but I note it states GS108T-200NAS and it states V2 in the package contents. So I assume the switch would be this one..

»www.netgear.com/business/product···200.aspx

Now I am curious about its pricing.
newegg reg 129 down to 96
memory express reg 94
ncix reg 94
direct canada reg 81 down to 79.

That is quite a spread.
Best bet looks like price match for ME on DC.

No one seems to carry the dlink DGS-1100-5 or -8 models (yes I found a 5 port jobbie that will do both)
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment



Anav
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okay it looks like my affordable choices are, and they seem like recent switches as well. The dgs-1100-5 seems really new.

GS108T - Netgear around $80 plus tax (ME pm to DC)
DGS-1100-8 Dlink around $75 plus tax (shopbot.ca)
DGS-1100-5 Dlink around $84 plus tax (direct dial)
DGS-1100-5 $80 includes tax shipped from B&H in the US go figure.

User guides...
»www.dlink.com/us/en/support/prod···N_US.pdf

»www.downloads.netgear.com/files/···ov10.pdf

If anybody is interested in reading through and comparing the two, would be most appreciated. The netgear seems more feature rich but the dlink seems easier to understand or at least implement.

The fact that mozerd recommended the Netgear leads me to think its a good quality switch (made well) and firmware works as advertised. I am torn though if able to get a 5 port (ie smallest possible) switch.
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment


Brano
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Click for full size
DGS-1100
Here's screenshot from my DGS-1100. If I'm getting this correctly the switch can prioritize by 802.1p tags, but can't actually tag the frames.

Anav, also please consider getting a bigger switch. Once you get use to the concept of VLANs you'll realize the opportunities and having a additional spare ports available is definitely something that you'll appreciate later.


Anav
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Okay Brano, from the user guide it states (look at the last sentence)............
QoS > 802.1p Default Priority
QoS is an implementation of the IEEE 802.1p standard that allows network administrators to reserve
bandwidth for important functions that require a larger bandwidth or that might have a higher priority, such as
VoIP (voice-over Internet Protocol), web browsing applications, file server applications or video conferencing.
Thus with larger bandwidth, less critical traffic is limited, and therefore excessive bandwidth can be saved.
The following figure displays the status of Quality of Service priority levels of each port, higher priority means
the traffic from this port will be first handled by the switch. For packets that are untagged, the switch will
assign the priority depending on your configuration.

Now, DLink uses words to describe the 802.1p settings. There are not the 8 levels but here is what the manual states that equate to the standard levels.......

When a priority level
has reached its egress weight, the system will process the packets in the next level even if there are
remaining packets. D-Link EasySmart Switch system’s weight of priority levels are: 8 (Highest), 4 (High), 2
(Medium) and 1 (Low) packet. By default, the queuing mechanism is Strict Priority.
QoS

Now this is very similar to the GS108T by netgear they have HIgh, Medium, Low and Lowest. The problem with the netgear it says no where in the manual that it actually tags untagged packets.
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment



Brano
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Assign priority does not necessary mean tag the packet.
I'll try to do some sniffing when I get time.



Anav
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Good point!


OGalati

join:2005-08-19
Argentina
reply to Anav

Sorry if I didn't understand the thread, but AFAIK QoS and 802.1p tagging is meaningless to solve the Vlan34/35 issue mentioned earlier. What you need is 802.1q tagging. Maybe the switch don't tag packets for 802.1p, but yes do tag for 802.1q purposes.

Regards.


JPedroT

join:2005-02-18
kudos:1

said by OGalati:

Sorry if I didn't understand the thread, but AFAIK QoS and 802.1p tagging is meaningless to solve the Vlan34/35 issue mentioned earlier. What you need is 802.1q tagging. Maybe the switch don't tag packets for 802.1p, but yes do tag for 802.1q purposes.

Regards.

According to sources familiar with the IPTV setup for the ISP that Anav uses, frames with the wrong p-bits set, will get dropped or something similar.

I agree with you, that vlan 34, 802.1q tags are the important part here, but hey, the ISP can build their network just how they want to
--
"Perl is executable line noise, Python is executable pseudo-code."


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
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join:2004-04-23
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reply to mozerd

Click for full size
said by mozerd:

The Netgear GS108T can actually apply tags

Anav See Profile after defining your vlan's you then work with QoS to prioritize the traffic with a technique called class of service (CoS) which is a 3-bit field called the Priority Code Point (PCP) ... It specifies a priority value of between 0 and 7 inclusive that can be used by QoS disciplines to differentiate traffic -- this technique is commonly referred to as 802.1p --- so in the Netgear GS108T you can set the priority value as defined inn the Manuel -- and partly shown in the graphic above.

The issue is how has YOUR ISP defined that priority value and is that priority value recognizable by the port/vlan it hits -- If the ISP is not using proprietary code then you should be good to go but I HAVE my doubts.

BTW, in clear terms WHAT is your objective? Do you want to be able to stream IPTV to multiple devices inside your home
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business


Anav
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Hi Mozerd, as I stated nowhere does it say it tags 8.02.1p.
(1) Dlink states "ASSIGN" priority
(2) Netgear states "Map" priority.

Unless someone can test, I cannot assume those terms mean tag. Other more expensive switches say tag for example.

Olagati, as JP noted, the ISP required a setting of 4 or higher I believe.

Mozerd no its not some obscure proprietary setting. The Asus N56 Linux code was modified for this requirment its set to tag the packets at level 4 802.1p.

Purpose, academic interest for me, but if feasible I will procure a switch and borrow an STB to play. I have a friend who need to replace their Bell fibreop action tech so I am sorting out the possibilities.

I am also helping a person out in the US on FIOS FTTH with an ONT, an actiontech but there setup is a tad archaic, coax from ONT to STBs and DVRs, ethernet and coax to action tech for internet and the coax for setup guide orderming movies etc. My local friend has ethernet to everything, much cleaner

By the way this fios link may be of interest to some..
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »What are the tradeoffs between the various router configurations (especially options 6-8)
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment



mozerd
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join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

said by Anav:

Hi Mozerd, as I stated nowhere does it say it tags 8.02.1p.
(1) Dlink states "ASSIGN" priority
(2) Netgear states "Map" priority.

Unless someone can test, I cannot assume those terms mean tag. Other more expensive switches say tag for example.

In Netgear for video you would MAP to the hardware queue "4" or NORMAL so it tags that "queue" and looks for packets to match --- will the Netgear TAG the IP PACKET = NO --- WHY would it? Its a hardware QUEUE on the VLAN.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business

JPedroT

join:2005-02-18
kudos:1

The point is that the q and p bits on the ethernet frame need to have specific value to be accepted by the upstream switches. IE Anav needs the frames coming from the STB to be tagged or if it already is tagged then some sort of vlan translation.

So just putting into one of the hardware queues on a switch, will not be enough unless its also tags it with the right bits.
--
"Perl is executable line noise, Python is executable pseudo-code."



Anav
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Thank you JP, exactly. It scares me when you agree with me. I have to pinch myself and ensure someone didnt spike my coffee with mescaline. I am not usually enlightened.

After carefully reviewing the Zyxel GS2200-8, I am starting to believe that managed switches are not capable of actually tagging data packets with 802.1P. It appears, the way I read it, that the zyxel is like the DLINK and Netgear but explains it a bit better.

What I mean is that the Zyxel is able to read an 802.1p tagged packet and it maps ITS OWN EQUIVALENT priority queue according to its table that is mapped one to one to the standard. Thus it respects the standard but applies physically its own internal routing priority.
For data without priority tagged packets, the switch allows you to assign AN EQUIVALENT, zyxel phsyical queuing number, to what it should be in terms of the standard if it had tagged data packets.

In other words it manipulates the data as if it actually had 802.1p packets, to the level the admin desires.

Conclusion, even the GS2200-8 does NOT tag packets. I suspect the same schema for the Dlink and Netgear which talk about assigning and mapping (similar language on the zyxel). The only difference that I see between the zyxel and the other is that they actually break out equivalent mapping 1:1 to the standard wherease the other two lump the standard into groups of two and use generict text names.

Pictures next post........
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment



Anav
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Click for full size
Click for full size
Click for full size
.....

JPedroT

join:2005-02-18
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1 edit

The ZyXEL tags just fine, just like on the USG you got tons of stuff including policy rules and classifiers if you want to get fancy