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markysharkey
Premium
join:2012-12-20
united kingd
reply to cramer

Re: Bonded ADSL

I can't imagine it'll be TCP but I will check.
I'm sure it will be interesting, but I suspect my customer won't share my enthusiasm for interesting packet behaviour
--
Binary is as easy as 01 10 11


public

join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
reply to markysharkey

said by markysharkey:

My plan would be to initiate 3 more ADSL connections along the three other phone lines then bond them with the CPE. Currently they are sporting an 887 VDSL router. I have no idea what to specify in place of the 887.

Another name for bonded adsl is metroe. It comes with bonding modem. Get a quote from a vendor in the b2b forum.


Paulg
Displaced Yooper
Premium
join:2004-03-15
Neenah, WI
kudos:1

Metro-E is nowhere near the same thing as bonded ADSL.


aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:4
reply to public

Metro-E is typically consisted of Unprotected Wave or MPLS-type circuits, which as Paulg See Profile stated, was nowhere near bonded ADSL.


public

join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA

said by aryoba:

Metro-E is typically consisted of Unprotected Wave or MPLS-type circuits, which as Paulg See Profile stated, was nowhere near bonded ADSL.

At the physical level the implementation may be bonded adsl. What you discuss is higher level transport.

aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:4

I wonder how Unprotected Wave is considered higher level transport that rides on bonded ADSL as physical level; care to elaborate public See Profile ?


markysharkey
Premium
join:2012-12-20
united kingd
reply to markysharkey

My provider coughed up! It's a GRE tunnel bonded through an Xrio UBM400 (»www.xrio.com/products/ubm-400).
I've asked about OOO / packet loss issues specifically for downloading streamed content at 5Mb/s. They're getting back to me...
And yes I realise that if each line condition varies by enough (SNR etc) then it'll probably never work for the intended type of use. But that's fine. Better to tell the customer it is not viable than deploy and find out the hard way...

--
Binary is as easy as 01 10 11



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to markysharkey

"Thankfully price is not an issue."

Then order a real circuit like a DS3 or Metro Ethernet circuit. If you need just 5Mb find a provider that can do MLPPP over E1s.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


markysharkey
Premium
join:2012-12-20
united kingd

quote:
Yup, we have laid fibre from the premises to the local distribution point. We're waiting for the ISP to pull 2Km of fibre at a cost to us of 18K sterling. The promised delivery was November 2012. Last update was two weeks ago with a rather non descript "there are blockages in the trunking underground" and no completion date is being offered. The customer is >18K down and getting on for 4 months since order inception and is stil sitting on a 3Mb ADSL connection. We need to do something to improve the customers speed whilst we await the magic of a man with a shovel...
No MLPPP support at the exchange, and EFM is tested as giving a max of 4Mb/s from two different providers.

--
Binary is as easy as 01 10 11

aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:4
reply to markysharkey

said by markysharkey:

Aryoba,

Yup, we have laid fibre from the premises to the local distribution point. We're waiting for the ISP to pull 2Km of fibre at a cost to us of 18K sterling. The promised delivery was November 2012. Last update was two weeks ago with a rather non descript "there are blockages in the trunking underground" and no completion date is being offered. The customer is >18K down and getting on for 4 months since order inception and is stil sitting on a 3Mb ADSL connection. We need to do something to improve the customers speed whilst we await the magic of a man with a shovel...

Hopefully the customer didn't blame you for the ISP inability to meet deadline. I assume the ISP provided some kind of compensation, such as first 6-month free of charge

markysharkey
Premium
join:2012-12-20
united kingd

No compensation yet...
As far as the customer is concerned I am the ISP as he is paying me (well, the company I work for) so we are the principal here. I'm not worried about blame so much as not being able to offer an alternative. But from what you and the other guys are saying the tunnel is going to be a source of potential problems.
Turns out it's one tunnel per ADSL connection. The provider tells me the tunnel will ensure the packets are delivered in sequence, but there is no way to ensure the sequence remains... er... sequential between the three tunnels. So far I am highly sceptical that the ADSL bonding can delver the goods as far as streamed media is concerned.
--
Binary is as easy as 01 10 11


aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:4

While waiting for the laid fiber, is wireless (microwave) feasible solution? A 2-km range with clear LOS should be ideal for microwave solution.


markysharkey
Premium
join:2012-12-20
united kingd

Nice thought, but no, we have no WiMax.
We do have a satellite broadband system installed which gives OK speed as long as we have the weather for it, but December / January / February in the northern hemisphere aren't noted for their stable weather patterns...
--
Binary is as easy as 01 10 11


aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:4

No WiMax because there is no clear LOS between the 2-km range or else? Is the area heavy-wooded one?


public

join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA
reply to markysharkey

said by markysharkey:

So far I am highly sceptical that the ADSL bonding can delver the goods as far as streamed media is concerned.

How about this uk vendor?
»www.evolving-networks.co.uk/bonded-internet/

markysharkey
Premium
join:2012-12-20
united kingd
reply to aryoba

No WiMax because it is a heavily wooded area and there is very little WiMax of any kind here in the UK as far as I am aware (cue a raft of "it's everywhere" replies...) AND the exchange is about 2K's away.

quote:
How about this uk vendor?
I'd have to ask them the same questions I have asked 3 other providers.
What I do now know for sure is that the major player in the UK backbone infratructure does not suppprt MLPPP as they have removed a lot of their Cisco kit. As the other vendors no longer have to compete in that sort of market there is very little support (if any) for MLPPP from any of the "re-sellers" either so I'm stuck with "tunnel trickery". But I will ask the question.
--
Binary is as easy as 01 10 11

aryoba
Premium,MVM
join:2002-08-22
kudos:4

said by markysharkey:

What I do now know for sure is that the major player in the UK backbone infrastructure does not support MLPPP as they have removed a lot of their Cisco kit.

Not having Cisco kit as CPE in ISP world has been a trend since Cisco kit is too costly to maintain and would not offer added value. Cisco kit then stayed usually as core infrastructures along with Juniper kit to provide redundant backbone network.

markysharkey
Premium
join:2012-12-20
united kingd

I have Cisco kit at the customer site and always will.
Unfortunately at the ISP end there is a mix of Huawei and... er... other stuff that doesn't support MLPPP.
--
Binary is as easy as 01 10 11