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l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON

2 edits

Solution Needed for TPIA/Bell to Fix DSL Speed Discrepancy

I've been a happy execulink DSL customer for the past decade, 5 Mbps Up / 800 kbps Down in Woodstock, ON. They offered a speed increase to 10 / 1 when we move our POTS over. The 6 months free phone service & $10/mo off internet made it a no-brainer. POTS service is only $29.95.

Here's the issue - After the switch, speed dropped and ping doubled.

Before: 3.70 / 0.67, 22-25 ms ping
After : 3.45 / 0.66, 52-62 ms ping
Neighbour: 5.20 / 0.67, 25-26 ms ping.

I live in a 4 Unit Condo (built 2002) and my immediate neighbour's ISP is Bell.

Summary of steps taken to have them increase speed.

1. Execulink tested line and max speed for line is 4.67 Mpbs.
2. Re-tested at telco demarcation to rule out any problems with inside wiring. Result = 5.03 Mbps.
3. Execulink finds no errors with the line and states nothing else can be done to increase speed. They believe creating an escalation ticket to Bell will only result in service charge to me.

Equipment:
Modem: Alcatel Speed Touch Home - 3EC18804GCAB02 (fixed name)
Router: Linksys E3200

If the condo unit immediately next to me (in the same building) can receive a 50% faster connection, shouldn't a solution be available to increase?

What can I ask of execulink to investigate this discrepancy with Bell that doesn't result in Bell saying "Nothing is wrong please pay us the $100+ service charge"?


JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:11
There is likely no more ports available on the remote DSLAM that serves your building and you being served from a DSLAM in the central office. Bell prioritizes their customers on the remote DSLAMs over wholesale customers.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to l1v3
said by l1v3:

Modem: Acatel Speed Test Home - 3EC18804GCAB02

I'm thinking you need a new modem. The Speed touch is a ADSL1 only modem and even that it can only go up to 8/1. As far as I'm aware all the new tiers require an ADSL2 modem. Which would also make sense why you can still get a connection, as if you don't have a modem with ADSL2, the DSLAM will fall back to ADSL1.

Now your neighbor might also have issues or you both are stuck on an older remote but to get higher than 6 meg speeds you definitely need a new modem.

l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON
I'll pick up a new modem tomorrow and test if there is any difference.

Question: Is the modem involved when they test the max line speed from their end?

l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON
reply to JCohen
Well that maybe true, how can this be confirmed and then switched to the remote DSLAM?

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
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they do not switch folks to remotes often if they are on legacy Gas profiles, They reserve those Connections for customers on FTTN - Packages 10 meg and up, and customers who cannot be fed by a C/o. as far as the speed difference based on internal wiring u can see a loss on the line from demarc to apartment which for such a small distance of wire IMO is a bit unusual, Also neighbors likely on a 6 Meg profile to get his full 5 meg with overhead and you Cannot support that so u get a 5 meg profile and with overhead drops u to 4 meg or less due to wiring limitations. Did execulink run u a clean Drop to your modem? are u Using Inline filters or a Potsplitter? and ya get a New modem I would suggest the Dlink 520b Adsl2 Modem a s it runs broadcom chipset which tends to work better on Alot of the Older equipment and stingers.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON
reply to l1v3
Well you had the right idea mlerner. Execulink provided (free) a new modem - Comtrend AR-5381u - that now provides a consistent 4.06 Mbps connection or a 0.5 Mbps increase. Review the modem stats below and comment on any other options to increase my speed.




Execulink support says that due to the high Downstream Attenuation (51.0 dB) the 4999 Kbps or 4.9 Mbps profile is the highest profile they can set without errors. They informed me that there is only 1 CO & 1 remote DSLAM in this area and I'm connected to the closest one. So there isn't an option to be moved to a closer DSLAM. Crap!

But my neighbour is still getting 1+ Mpbs more which I find odd and a little frustrating. Do any of you DSL gurus have some input/suggestions?

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
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Nvm Your line is interleaved already Looks like your getting what your going to get though u did mention some discrepancy from yer demarc to your jack could be inwall issue there.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON

2 edits
Yeah, I'll double check the demarc later today. The old modem showed a 0.5 Mbps increase. If there is a large discrepancy, can you point me to a self-test solution or is an electrician call a better option?

Oh and what stat indicates an 'interleave' connection as opposed to a 'fastpath'? I asked the support guy if it was an interleave connection and he said he didn't know.

Thanks for your input.

Edit: Line Coding 'On' = interleaved, right?


squircle

join:2009-06-23
Oakville, ON
said by l1v3:

Edit: Line Coding 'On' = interleaved, right?

No, that's trellis modulation, a method of encoding the DSL signal onto the phone line.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
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reply to l1v3
The fact it shows a Interleaver Depth Leads me to believe your Interleaved. but it could be wrong, Do a ping test should give u an idea, 20ish is fast 40ish is interleaved. Though based on the Interleaver Depth underlined in red its pretty sure its on, Try Plugging yer Modem directly outside for fun P:0 with a Long flat cable p:) and see if your sync is better if it is u may want to try better wiring. Ie do a new run of quad etc.. and drill in usally u have to get landlord permission P:) And a Potsplitter in Your nid do a clean drop to be sure your wires are golden.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to l1v3
If I'm reading that right your SNR is 10.4, 5 is low and potentially unstable and 10 is a good margin but the problem is they could try to bump you up but each profile increase adds -5 to the SNR so it's already borderline as a whole.

Plus if you are on interleave it could be your line isn't clean. If that wasn't enough, if you are on the closest remote in your area, you are definitely not getting anywhere near 10 megs so you'll probably want to change back to the 6 mb package. Bad situation all around.

Also just so you know, SNR is the signal to noise ratio and attenuation is related to the SNR + wire distance from CO or remote. So two factors there. Distance you can't help, sometimes Bell has long wire runs and that affects attenuation.

The only thing you could do is maybe clean up the wiring and increase your SNR so at least you could possibly get 6 meg sync assuming the attenuation is related to bad wiring. If not and that attenuation is correct, you are simply too far for 6 meg and above sync.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Adsl2 Mode with a Attenuation suggesting 3km Loop Length 5 meg max? Definite line issues Somewhere IMO>
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON

1 edit
OK, after checking modem stats at the demarc, I see no significant changes.
SNR: 51.5
Attenuation: 91
Attainable: 6457 Up / 950 Down
Rate: 4997 / 797

BUT - After reconnecting the demarc and removing all phone connections Attainable bumps up to 7437. Culprit seems to be a faulty DSL line filter. So the good news is the inside wiring seems to be fine.

Stats after throwing out the faulty DSL filter:



morisato: The distance to the CO (by streets) is ~ 2km. So the actual distance could be 3km. Help me understand, if you would be so kind. How do you interpret Attenuation to Distance? What would you expect SNR to be if the line was clean?

I'd love to use these stats to have Bell fix the dirty line but considering that I haven't found any Woodstock address which Bell offers more than 6M / 800k service it is highly unlikely.

l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON

2 edits
Looking for input on the above new stats. Would raising the profile to a 6M cause too much drop in Attenuation? mlerner mentioned 5 db seems to be the threshold. Anything less causes to many errors.

Edit: SNR not Attenuation


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3
I would leave it as is. You don't want to decrease the noise margin anymore or the line won't be stable.

l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON
Right, drop in SNR not Attenuation.

This still doesn't get to the bottom of why my immediate neighbour with Bell can get a consistent connection of 1+ Mpbs (5.2M) more than I can. I've ruled out interior wiring as the stats do not change when connecting to the demarc. hmmmm?

Insight, suggestions request to discuss with my ISP Execulink that will allow me to receive the same service.


JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:11
Your Bell neighbour might be connected to a remote DSLAM and you're wired directly to a CO.

l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON
said by JCohen:

Your Bell neighbour might be connected to a remote DSLAM and you're wired directly to a CO.

Wish that were true. Woodstock only has the 2 connections which the execulink tech confirmed: The CO and 1 remote. They house their equipment in the CO.

The remote is in the north end and we are in the south. The CO is 2 km away by street travel.

Doesn't make sense why my speed is that much slower does it?

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
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reply to l1v3
well it was Internal bad filter eh? Your line cleaned up alot, 7.5 meg max now You could likely Push for a 6 meg profile, Upstream attenuation is 28.2 or 282 You just move the Decimal from 28.2 over one and add a km on the end for approximate distance. Note this Only works with the Upstream Attenuation!

so 2.8kms Give or take Its not exact science. Some how i am feeling Even though it says ADSL2 Mode that its not in a Adsl2 profile. I do see your getting Alot less errors. and they are being corrected P:) so all seems well.

he is on a 6016/800 Profile you are on a 5meg/800 Profile is why hes getting 5.2ish and you 4.0ish P:) overhead.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON
Thanks for the input morisato! I'll give them a call tomorrow and request the profile change to 6M. They were unwilling to do so when I asked before because of the SNR value.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

1 recommendation

No problem it might be unstable but it could be fine as well give your stats suggest your well Below your maximum capacity you should be okayish/on the line p:)
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON
Will do! I follow up after talking to support.

And thanks again!

l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON

1 edit
reply to l1v3
Well because of my efforts to resolve the speed discrepancy (too much in my opinion) and you guys' expertise/input, my connection speeds are now almost double:

5.93 Mpbs / 0.74 Mpbs , 54 ms ping WOW!

I asked specifically to 'increase my profile' and they changed it to 8 / 1. Before they could do so, they said they had to contact the Sales office??? This is odd because the plan was supposedly changed to the 'upto' 10 Mpbs on Jan 23rd. It leads me to believe the reason they denied a profile increase after installing the new modem was because it was the old plan - 5 Mpbs max. Grrr!

I'll dwell on the positive instead Speed increase of 2.5 Mbps and a solid connection.

Thanks to all. Without your input this wouldn't have happened.



morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
there still is clearly some issues on the line i have never seen adsl2 with such horrible stats. for 3 kms.. but its better than it was p:) though
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Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.

l1v3

join:2013-01-24
Woodstock, ON
said by morisato:

there still is clearly some issues on the line i have never seen adsl2 with such horrible stats. for 3 kms.. but its better than it was p:) though

What specific stats are horrible? Looking for ammunition to get it fixed if possible and to understand what the values should be.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
well speed to distance looks poor to me, combined u have lots of errors showing , Your not even syncing at the full profile your on. adsl2 goes to 24 meg, i would expect u to be able to get 15-16 easy at 3 kms.. i dunno whats wrong with yer line specifically but it looks bad to me
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.