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VexorgTR

join:2012-08-27
Sheffield Lake, OH
kudos:1

QoS Routers that actually work.....

For a business environment with 6 CPU's and 6 phones, I need to get a QoS router. What ones actually work right?



Trev
IP Telephony Addict
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC
kudos:6

Anything where you can install Tomato would work great.

I stocked up on ASUS RT-N16 routers and use Toastman's Tomato build with excellent results. I believe there's a new model out with even more power, but these ones have been rock solid with offices with up to 50 machines and an equal number of phones.
--
I represent AcroVoice, a full service Canadian VoIP Provider.
Buy your Obihai ATA shipped from within Canada.



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
reply to VexorgTR

said by VexorgTR:

For a business environment with 6 CPU's and 6 phones, I need to get a QoS router. What ones actually work right?

I suggest the ZyXEL USG100 -- excellent bandwidth management [QoS]
The USG100 supports multiple sub-nets --- comes pre-configured with 3 sub-nets. With sub-nets you can better isolate your traffic so that VoIP is on one subnet and gets highest priority. Workstations can be on other subnet and wireless can be on its own dedicated subnet. Lots of options. Caveat: Object Oriented management interface is not trivial to learn. as a UTM its very underpowered so I suggest not using the UTM. As a Firewall/Router works great.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business


VexorgTR

join:2012-08-27
Sheffield Lake, OH
kudos:1
reply to VexorgTR

Cool... Thanks so far....... I have a few of the Linksys that are supported for Tomato, but there's not a good tutorial I see for installing the firmware. I will look into both solutions so far.


zephxiii

join:2012-12-12
Fort Wayne, IN
reply to VexorgTR

I'm using Pfsense on a Dell Optiplex at the moment. It has a highly configurable traffic shaper that is basically ALTQ i think.

Right now we have 10 or so extensions and a 3/2 fiber connect. The way it setup currently people are pretty happy.



VexorgTR

join:2012-08-27
Sheffield Lake, OH
kudos:1
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·callwithus
reply to VexorgTR

Hey Trev... since I just managed to get the original Tomato 1.28 working on this Linksys WRT54G.....

What's the best way to set up the QOS?

I'm taking all ideas into consideration, but I had these routers in the bin... if it's for free...... worth a look.


mikefxu

join:2004-10-05
Titusville, FL
reply to Trev

said by Trev:

ASUS RT-N16 routers and use Toastman's Tomato build with excellent results.

I could never get results while saturating the upload, download functioned fine.

said by VexorgTR:

What's the best way to set up the QOS?

Have fun....»www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?th···n.31234/

gweidenh

join:2002-05-18
Houston, TX
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to VexorgTR

I went with pfsense solely because of its QoS features. I even put together a blog post to assist with its setup.

»www.hammerweb.com/blog/2011/09/t···nse-2-0/



XCOM
digitalnUll
Premium
join:2002-06-10
Spring, TX
Reviews:
·ObiVoice
·flowroute
·Comcast
·voip.ms
·Callcentric

said by gweidenh:

I went with pfsense solely because of its QoS features. I even put together a blog post to assist with its setup.

»www.hammerweb.com/blog/2011/09/t···nse-2-0/

+1
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


VexorgTR

join:2012-08-27
Sheffield Lake, OH
kudos:1
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·callwithus

Thanks for the ideas so far. It gives me somewhere to start. This is a little network, and I might even be able to sneak by without the QoS, but rather than chance it..........

Our Internet (30x5) has enough mojo that we get by without QoS being mandated... Although when we have a full bench downloading updates, the results can be heard in the phone system..... but it's still usable. Don't want to subject clients to that though.



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to VexorgTR

 
This thread »Cloneman's Tomato QoS Tips for adsl, vdsl2, and cable , and the slightly older thread »Tomato QoS major bug (resolved - normal behavior) which is linked within it, with mostly the same participants, each might be a good read.

I use Tomato on an old Linksys WRT54GL - latest build #105 from SHIBBY from Jan 2013 - it contains the same components as Toastman's almost as recent builds.


zephxiii

join:2012-12-12
Fort Wayne, IN
reply to VexorgTR

If u have a spare machine then fire up pfsense on it and play around.



XCOM
digitalnUll
Premium
join:2002-06-10
Spring, TX
Reviews:
·ObiVoice
·flowroute
·Comcast
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
reply to VexorgTR

said by VexorgTR:

Thanks for the ideas so far. It gives me somewhere to start. This is a little network, and I might even be able to sneak by without the QoS, but rather than chance it..........

Our Internet (30x5) has enough mojo that we get by without QoS being mandated... Although when we have a full bench downloading updates, the results can be heard in the phone system..... but it's still usable. Don't want to subject clients to that though.

What?

QoS implementation is not base on how much bandwidth you have... It should be base on what you want to have priority on.
Lots of factors come to play... Like how many users, Internet usage, etc...

One user can saturate your pipe.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
reply to VexorgTR

said by VexorgTR:

Our Internet (30x5) has enough mojo that we get by without QoS being mandated...

VoIP is full-duplex real-time traffic.

Your 30X5 is ISP best effort assuming a lot of assumptions -- meaning you are not guaranteed 30x5 --- its UP to 30 DOWN and UP to 5 UP. Because VoIP is real time the rate of concurrency is the most important factor in determining how much bandwidth you need to reserve for real-time traffic like VoIP --- so for example in your scenario the worst case scenario is 6 VoIP calls [send/receive] at the same time being utilized -- in my world I would reserve 6x128Kbps=768Kbps both ways [down/up]. Since you can only control the bandwidth within you LAN and going out the WAN port if you do not reserve that bandwidth for VoIP traffic your concurrent calls may experience lots of hiccups assuming other type of traffic are active. And IF you have other streaming services on the go then your ISP bandwidth could very easily be saturated freezing your connection.

For a BUSINESS I usually have a separate ISP line strictly dedicated to VoIP and where VoIP rate of concurrency is very high. That's where a compact device like the USG100 does a nice job with 2 WAN ports.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business

zephxiii

join:2012-12-12
Fort Wayne, IN
reply to gweidenh

So PRIQ is better than HFSC? I've been using HFSC as that is what it selects by default.


gweidenh

join:2002-05-18
Houston, TX
kudos:3

I'll be honest. 3 years ago when I first started playing with pfsense, I did a lot of research on the various QoS algorithms. I would be lying if I said I remembered why I went with PRIQ.

I will say that QoS works perfectly with my setup that is detailed in the blog post. Thats not to say it wouldn't work just as well with another algorithm.



Hagar

join:2004-10-31
Sunnyvale, CA
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to XCOM

said by XCOM:

QoS implementation is not base on how much bandwidth you have...

I agree that bandwidth is not the only or the main factor for QOS but upload bandwidth is an important factor, especially if you have realtime packets like voice.

Research bufferbloat, limit upload speed with QOS is one of the tools to combat excessive latency. E.g. avoiding full upload buffers.

david3

join:2000-03-21
reply to Trev

said by Trev:

Anything where you can install Tomato would work great.

I stocked up on ASUS RT-N16 routers and use Toastman's Tomato build with excellent results. I believe there's a new model out with even more power, but these ones have been rock solid with offices with up to 50 machines and an equal number of phones.

+1, this is what I use (though at home). An Asus RT-N16 loaded with Toastman's TomatoUSB firmware. I use it with QOS setup, and it works.

gweidenh

join:2002-05-18
Houston, TX
kudos:3

I've heard good things about Tomato. Does it shape both inbound and outbound traffic?


Mango
What router are you using?
Premium
join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·Anveo
·Shaw

Yes, it does.

What I would really like to be able to do, but currently can't, is throttle normal internet traffic to something extremely aggressive like 50%, but only when a VoIP call is in progress. This could compensate for internet connections with fluctuating speeds. Could pfsense do that?



XCOM
digitalnUll
Premium
join:2002-06-10
Spring, TX
Reviews:
·ObiVoice
·flowroute
·Comcast
·voip.ms
·Callcentric

said by Mango:

Yes, it does.

What I would really like to be able to do, but currently can't, is throttle normal internet traffic to something extremely aggressive like 50%, but only when a VoIP call is in progress. This could compensate for internet connections with fluctuating speeds. Could pfsense do that?

Yes.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$

gweidenh

join:2002-05-18
Houston, TX
kudos:3

1 recommendation

said by XCOM:

said by Mango:

Yes, it does.

What I would really like to be able to do, but currently can't, is throttle normal internet traffic to something extremely aggressive like 50%, but only when a VoIP call is in progress. This could compensate for internet connections with fluctuating speeds. Could pfsense do that?

Yes.

My morning coffee is still doing its magic, how would you do this in pfsense?

Using rate limiters?

zephxiii

join:2012-12-12
Fort Wayne, IN
reply to VexorgTR

In pfsense I have a certain IP range throttled down to just below the max of the DL and i have a certain PC throttled down to 1.2mbps.



VexorgTR

join:2012-08-27
Sheffield Lake, OH
kudos:1
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·callwithus
reply to Hagar

We max out at 2 simultaneous calls in our system at a time... so although QoS would be a good thing, i have done ok without it for quite a time already.

My ISP actually does Guarantee at least 80% of the quoted 30/5 even during peak times.


DBOD

join:2012-10-17
reply to VexorgTR

I use a Netgear router FVS318G (my FVS338 was just as good). I have not experienced any SIP quality issues. I run 6 PCs but only two of them ever browse any videos. I run a 3CX PBX with six phones but we have a license limit of 4 calls. Those are run over two SIP trunks to Callcentric for the two businesses here. I can only get U-verse 1.5 Mpbs down and 384 Kbps up at this location. Even when I am choking the downstream with video, we don't have any audio issues on up to four calls.



mgraves1
Premium
join:2004-04-05
Houston, TX
reply to gweidenh

+1 for pfsense, although I also like m0n0wall for small installations



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
reply to VexorgTR

said by VexorgTR:

My ISP actually does Guarantee at least 80% of the quoted 30/5 even during peak times.

So you have a Service Level Agreement with the ISP that guarantees you 80% ? What happens if the SLA fails to deliver and how do you measure that SLA?


VexorgTR

join:2012-08-27
Sheffield Lake, OH
kudos:1
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·callwithus

said by mozerd:

said by VexorgTR:

My ISP actually does Guarantee at least 80% of the quoted 30/5 even during peak times.

So you have a Service Level Agreement with the ISP that guarantees you 80% ? What happens if the SLA fails to deliver and how do you measure that SLA?

They offer test utilities that can be obtained on a web site. If it is underperforming, I can phone them and it's promptly repaired.

It's not a super great lock, but I've used this method to rapidly get repairs dispatched twice over the course of usage.