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corster
Premium Member
join:2002-02-23
Oshawa, ON

corster to coxta

Premium Member

to coxta

Re: renouncing a succession from an estate

This seems to cover it fairly well:

»www4.gouv.qc.ca/EN/Porta ··· on.aspx#

You will likely need to find a Notary or Lawyer in Quebec to take care of it. I'd imagine that it's fairly routine for them.

I_H8_Spam
join:2004-03-10
St Catharines, ON

I_H8_Spam

Member

Yeah it seems straight-forward, the notary can properly witness your oath which absolves you from inheriting the debt.

coxta
Ultramundane
Premium Member
join:2000-07-15
LALALALALALA

coxta to corster

Premium Member

to corster
said by corster:

This seems to cover it fairly well:

»www4.gouv.qc.ca/EN/Porta ··· on.aspx#

You will likely need to find a Notary or Lawyer in Quebec to take care of it. I'd imagine that it's fairly routine for them.

I've read this and many other passages before. I don't think it is all that clear.

My friend checked into a notary: $800 for the notary per family member. I think a judicial declaration is an option (sworn statement), but it gives no detail about how this should be handled.

I understand this is Quebec, but what do you do if you don't have funds for a notary? Are you then stuck with paying the debt?

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

I'm going to ask again - if the estate has no money and no assets that can be sold, how can they come after someone else for the debt?

coxta
Ultramundane
Premium Member
join:2000-07-15
LALALALALALA

coxta

Premium Member

said by Gone:

I'm going to ask again - if the estate has no money and no assets that can be sold, how can they come after someone else for the debt?

I'm sorry, I didn't read your comment properly. Apparently, if you do not renounce the succession, then you accept the succession de facto. At that time you become responsible for the debts.

"If there is no notarial instrument indicating that a successor has refused to accept the succession, the successor is considered to have accepted it. "

So I ask again, is Quebec so screwed up that they would do that to someone who couldn't afford a notary? The estate in question has 6 children by two families, plus two surviving siblings and several others who would be considered in the line of succession. The debt is several hundred thousand dollars.

»www.justice.gouv.qc.ca/e ··· ccepting

hm
@videotron.ca

hm

Anon

I've seen a family not wanting to claim a body before. Something about if one of the siblings claims the body then they assume the debt.

Wish I recalled how they got out of it and then finally claimed the body. Was too long ago. But it was pretty sad to see 3 kids fighting and not wanting to claim the body of their mother.

So yeah i've seen this before here, but don't recall the ins and outs of it. I think it was a funeral home who helped this family out w/ all the info.

So as far as I know, this type of thing should have been taken care of at time of death w/ help from someone at the hospital or funeral home. Surely one of them can call the gov and ask?

I_H8_Spam
join:2004-03-10
St Catharines, ON

I_H8_Spam to coxta

Member

to coxta
said by coxta:

I understand this is Quebec, but what do you do if you don't have funds for a notary? Are you then stuck with paying the debt?

Legal Aid

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

LazMan to Gone

Premium Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

I'm going to ask again - if the estate has no money and no assets that can be sold, how can they come after someone else for the debt?

As usual, La Belle Provience has their own ideas... Here's a clip from the Quebec website:
quote:
The heirs are liable for the deceased's debts only up to the value of the property they receive from the succession, but if they exempt the liquidator from making an inventory, they are considered to have accepted the succession and are personally liable for all of the succession's debts, even if the debts exceed the value of the property they receive.
quote:
The succession is not solvent

If the property is insufficient to cover all the debts and the legacies by particular title, the liquidator must act with prudence: the liquidator must draw up a complete statement of the debts and the legacies by particular title and then make a payment proposal, which must be sent to the interested parties and be approved by the court. Before making a payment proposal, the liquidator should seek legal advice to avoid mistakes.

The payment proposal must be drafted according to certain rules: the preferred creditors (those whose claims relate to legal costs, movable property, tax laws, or property taxes) and the hypothecary creditors, according to their rank, are paid first; then the other creditors are paid, on a pro rata basis if they cannot be paid in full; next, the support creditors are paid, on a pro rata basis if they cannot be paid in full; and any legatees by particular title are paid last.

If the property is insufficient to pay all the legatees by particular title, the liquidator must follow other rules.

A liquidator may negotiate with the creditors to have them voluntarily reduce their claim in order to satisfy as many of them as possible. In doing so, the liquidator must explain the situation fully to the creditors, disclose all relevant facts to them and obtain their written consent.
So, as long as an acceptable inventory is done, the heir's aren't responsible for debts beyond the value of what they inherit... HOWEVER - if the inventory isn't done, or isn't accepted, the heir could be on the hook for a lot more...

I could see situations where just not being involved in the mess could be the easy way out...

OP - if the estate is worth less then the debts, I'd say the money for the notary, and just not getting involved, is probably the easy way out... Just my opinion.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to coxta

to coxta
said by coxta:

said by Gone:

I'm going to ask again - if the estate has no money and no assets that can be sold, how can they come after someone else for the debt?

I'm sorry, I didn't read your comment properly. Apparently, if you do not renounce the succession, then you accept the succession de facto. At that time you become responsible for the debts.

"If there is no notarial instrument indicating that a successor has refused to accept the succession, the successor is considered to have accepted it. "

So I ask again, is Quebec so screwed up that they would do that to someone who couldn't afford a notary? The estate in question has 6 children by two families, plus two surviving siblings and several others who would be considered in the line of succession. The debt is several hundred thousand dollars.

»www.justice.gouv.qc.ca/e ··· ccepting

You do need a lawyer or notary in Quebec to guide you in this. This is not something most people deal with on a regular basis. Estate law is complex enough and even more complex in Quebec. That being said, the advice of a notary in Quebec in such matters is not expensive. Even Canadian lawyers are cheap by US standards. And no, their system is not "screwed up". Just different. Just like Canada.
DKS

DKS to I_H8_Spam

to I_H8_Spam
said by I_H8_Spam:

said by coxta:

I understand this is Quebec, but what do you do if you don't have funds for a notary? Are you then stuck with paying the debt?

Legal Aid

Legal Aid does not do matters involving estates.

hm
@videotron.ca

hm to coxta

Anon

to coxta
said by coxta:

My friend checked into a notary: $800 for the notary per family member.

Your friend is either playing you, or you mis-understood. Been through this once before (as stated way too long ago to recall much of it), but it's not 800$/person.

Notary will have standard forms to renounce, people sign it. A group thing.
balur
join:2010-04-28

balur to Gone

Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

I'm going to ask again - if the estate has no money and no assets that can be sold, how can they come after someone else for the debt?

A few years back when my Grandmother died she had a somewhat substantial debt on her Canadian Tire credit card.

Canadian Tire upon finding this out, contacted my dad and told him that he owed them the money.

He wasn't exactly nice to the person on the phone, and pretty much told them to leave him alone, and that they were idiots for giving a credit card to an elderly woman who did not have an income beyond what came from the government. They never contacted us again.

Though this was not in Quebec.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

They can try, but they have no legal legs to stand on.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

said by Gone:

They can try, but they have no legal legs to stand on.

Yup. All you have to do as Executor is to say "I am the Executor. File a claim against the estate. Otherwise, go away."
markf
join:2008-01-24
Scarborough, ON

markf to hm

Member

to hm
said by hm :

I've seen a family not wanting to claim a body before. Something about if one of the siblings claims the body then they assume the debt.

Wish I recalled how they got out of it and then finally claimed the body. Was too long ago. But it was pretty sad to see 3 kids fighting and not wanting to claim the body of their mother.

So yeah i've seen this before here, but don't recall the ins and outs of it. I think it was a funeral home who helped this family out w/ all the info.

So as far as I know, this type of thing should have been taken care of at time of death w/ help from someone at the hospital or funeral home. Surely one of them can call the gov and ask?

If you claim the body and sign for the funeral home, that falls outside of the estate and the person who signs the paper owes the funeral home that money, at least in Ontario.

Beyond that, it is cheaper to get a lawyer to do things right upfront (even at $1000), than to later find out and have to fight things at a much greater cost. I don't know how Quebec law works, but if there is nothing in the estate then the Executor is not responsible for the debts personally (unless they wasted what little there was in that kind of estate) at least in Ontario.