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A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
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join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

A Lurker to Viper359

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to Viper359

Re: Court tells employers to accommodate child-care requests

said by Viper359:

I think that comment is geared more towards small shiftwork companies. 24/7 operations. Plumbers, electricians, elevator mechanics, convenience stores, gas stations etc.

Agreed as when you run production x number of hours a week with a small group of employees it can truly suck when someone doesn't come in (or can't stay a full shift).

Styvas
Who are we? Forge FC!
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join:2004-09-15
Hamilton, ON

Styvas to A Lurker

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said by A Lurker:

said by Styvas:

It's a life balance thing, and employers would be wise to recognize that accommodating that balance, even if it means small sacrifices like letting a guy go early to pick up his kids on a Friday, will lead to happier, more productive employees.

It's not that employers shouldn't accomodate people. I have hourly guys who report to me (days & afternoons) and within reason I'm willing to play around with in early/late, make up time, etc. As long as I'm not behind the gun on something I'm pretty flexible. I'm also one of the few dept. managers that never has an issue getting people to stay / work extra etc. I suspect that the flexibility and a good relationship gets me the second part.

Generally the problem comes with salaried employees is that give and take isn't evenly applied. It's not unusual in my case to work extra hours (here in the plant) and I usually answer customer inquiries if they come in at night. If I'm watching TV it helps me the next day if I answer right away. From time to time (if schedule permits) I'll cut out early on a Friday. However, I've never said 'I didn't take a lunch' so I'm going home early. If they did that for one person, why not all?

I'd be willing to bet (no matter how few employees) that there's always one salaried person who comes in just a few minutes late and runs out the door on the clock. Not likely for any good reason, but just because they get away with it. I've worked with many women and men with kids, and it's always just one person. I know where I was working a couple of years ago enough people took advantage of bad weather days that suddenly everyone had to make up time. Some people could work at home (which they had been doing) and were told that they couldn't.

I hear what you're saying, and I think, perhaps, it also depends on the industry/business type. I'm of the "get your work done on time and with the expected quality and how you organize your time is your business" mindset. If someone is skipping out early every day but also handing stuff in late or it's just shitty work, then I have a problem with that. But if they're taking half the amount of time given to perform quality work, then their boss should be giving them more work or giving them a break.

donoreo
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join:2002-05-30
North York, ON

donoreo to jaberi

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to jaberi
When my wife is working anyway, in our family I am usually the one to stay home. I can work from home just as in the office since I am remote to what I am working on anyway no matter where I am.

When the girls were born I took a month off for parental leave.

I leave a bit early so I can take the girls to gymnastics once per week.

I tend to be available for work more often than most others on my team even with the above. I am usually at my desk no later than 8:30. Others not before 9, some never before 10. In fact yesterday one came in around 10:20 when he knew he was leaving early. I come in earlier if I am leaving earlier, like today I have a dentist appointment. The ones coming in later do not always stay later either. Some may recall me mentioning before that we used to be in late and leave at the same time as others all the time.

Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to urbanriot

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Men might hardly ever take care of the children in your subset of Canadian society, but I can assure you that it is far more common than your own limited view allows you to believe.

To which - how much they do is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that they do and this ruling affects men just as much as it does women. To hold the view that a ruling like this would only affect women and not men is in of itself sexist. You can chose to think otherwise, but that's just the reality of the situation.

urbanriot
Premium Member
join:2004-10-18
Canada

urbanriot

Premium Member

said by Gone:

Men might hardly ever take care of the children in your subset of Canadian society, but I can assure you that it is far more common than your own limited view allows you to believe.

My subset of Canadian society? You mean everyone else who's outside your limited CBSA sample set? Then by that token, yes, the majority of Canada does not follow what you're suggesting.
urbanriot

urbanriot to Gone

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to Gone
said by Gone:

You can chose to think otherwise, but that's just the reality of the situation.

Oh, and concerning the reality of the situation according to Statistics Canada, out of "eligible fathers", which doesn't include all fathers, 30% filed for parental leave.

So how common do you think I think it is? That's around what I was thinking, so clearly you don't know what I'm thinking.

I really don't care what men do or don't do so you presuming how I feel is a waste of hot air. I'm just telling you how it is, that women are asked these questions more than men are.

Who has a greater chance of getting pregnant? A man or a woman? It's a pretty simple risk assessment...

Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

30% is a fairly significant number. That number is even higher than I thought it would be. If one third of all fathers are doing it, it's common enough.

I don't deny that the sexism you described toward women and caring for children is common. Having said that, just because it's common does not make it right, especially if 30% of all fathers are doing it too.

(for what it's worth, nearly all fathers would be eligible for parental leave. The ineligible ones would be the unemployed and self-employed, but that ineligibility applies to unemployed and self-employed women as well)

noemails
@bell.ca

noemails to Gone

Anon

to Gone
i had a stay athome mom....ddi you miss out on the experience or is that concept new to you.from my side i think it would be nice that women having children are in the home not looking for daycare...

Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

I could have had a stay at home dad for all you know.

I think it's nice that father's are stepping up and taking charge for the caring of their children if their wife wants to continue their career in the workforce.

urbanriot
Premium Member
join:2004-10-18
Canada

urbanriot to Gone

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to Gone
You may have misinterpreted what I wrote as a suggestion that I endorse these hiring practices - I do not. On the contrary, my original motivation for posting was in dismay of this settlement as it's a psychological step back that will work against people in general.

As far as parenting goes, concerning stay-at-home configurations, I support whatever works best for that family. Personally I feel that it would be best for a woman to stay-at-home for raising daughters and a man when it's boys, but really it's whatever works for the family. Sometimes the woman is the primary breadwinner of the family and has the best benefits, pension, etc.
resa1983
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join:2008-03-10
North York, ON

resa1983 to Gone

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said by Gone:

I could have had a stay at home dad for all you know.

I think it's nice that father's are stepping up and taking charge for the caring of their children if their wife wants to continue their career in the workforce.

My husband's home 3 of 5 days of the week with our son, the other 2 he's in daycare. Which works well as Nathan gets interaction with children, and his speech is improving like crazy (he throws fits if I try to teach him new words, read to him, or sing to him, but has no problems if his teachers do it, go figure).

My job is the main breadwinner and provides our benefits, but without my husband's additional income from working full time in the evenings, we'd be absolutely sunk. We're only crawling out of our hole of debt now because of him switching to full time in the evenings, vs previously only working part time.

Our schedule is a lot different than most, but for now, works for us.

Mike2009
join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
TP-Link Archer C7
Technicolor DCM476
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Mike2009

Member

I guess I'm lucky as my employer has accommodated my childcare issues for years but they know I'll always make up the time. Oh and I'm one of the few guys who took a couple of months parental leave for each of my kids. I also leave early every Wednesday to take my daughter to hockey and my employer is good with it. I'm one of the lucky few who have an employer that believes in work life balance.

nitzguy
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join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON

nitzguy to Gone

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to Gone
said by Gone:

I could have had a stay at home dad for all you know.

I think it's nice that father's are stepping up and taking charge for the caring of their children if their wife wants to continue their career in the workforce.

Nitz's friend does that. He's the "Stay at home dad", so Mom goes off to work at the bank, and he stays home with the kids, well, walks them to school now that they're older, she's more career driven, and he's more wanting to raise and care for his 2 kids....I mean I jab at him about it, but hey it works for them and they're both happy...he'd rather be "Mr. Mom".

Also, shift work is more than what others have posted...shift work can take a variety of careers....sheesh, in my industry I think its practically 50/50 down the middle...if not more so skewed towards women vs. men. Which is why I was interested in this as it could have some implications for me.

Xstar_Lumini
join:2008-12-14
CANADA

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said by peterboro:

She's a CBSA worker what do you expect.

What I expect? I would have expected for her to be respected in her request since the CBSA has about 100 other workers at her work location, are you telling me that they could not get someone else to cover her missing hours/days? C'mon, there's always 6 of them doing nothing talking on a coffee table.