dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
5
share rss forum feed


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to jaberi

Re: Court tells employers to accommodate child-care requests

said by jaberi:

A recent ruling by the Federal Court may have opened the door for Canadian workers to craft their own hours and conditions, regardless of how they would affect their employers.

Some important information that stands out to me in this article:

- This woman and her husband both had jobs working at Pearson International Airport and they didn't like their irregular shifts

- Woman complained

quote:
She was offered stable, part-time work instead and later an adjusted schedule that still did not suit her fancy.
quote:
She took the case to the Human Rights Tribunal, which sided with her. This week, the Federal Court agreed.
The wording may not open the door for a flood of cases:
quote:
The courts and tribunals want to maintain discretion to look at every individual case. But the most important factor in determining undue hardship is probably going to be cost. A large company with more significant financial resources will probably be expected to be more flexible than a small business.
quote:
The onus will remain on the employee to prove they have tried and failed to organize their obligations before seeking accommodation from their employer.
I agree with you jaberi, that this may make affect the hiring of women at larger companies. Canadian society has made great strides towards treating women as equal to me OH, hold on a second, women get to make their own hours after they have kids? Fuck that, I'm only hiring men.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by urbanriot:

I agree with you jaberi, that this may make affect the hiring of women at larger companies. Canadian society has made great strides towards treating women as equal to me OH, hold on a second, women get to make their own hours after they have kids? Fuck that, I'm only hiring men.

So then when a man leaves early or requests a scheduling accommodation to care for his kids, it's all fine and dandy? Are you saying it is only a problem when a woman does it? You are aware that in this modern world we live in, child rearing is typically a shared responsibility between both parents, not just the woman in the relationship, right?

You might want to clarify your position.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
said by Gone:

You might want to clarify your position.

There's no position to clarify, it's not my position - I'm referring to the societal effects of such decisions. Men hardly ever do what you're referring to.

There are already plenty of large companies with hiring policies to to avoid hiring women in certain age groups for exactly these reasons or only hire them into certain positions that currently have a high turnaround rate. When you get to second or third round interviews that involve the people that need to position filled, you'll hear plenty of interesting questions where you'll wonder, "why are they asking that!?" They're doing it to establish how reliable you'll be for them. Asking a person if they're in a stable relationship is a question I've heard many times.

Some medium sized businesses like Canadian Tire Financial can handle and do handle it just fine. Some larger businesses, like GE, they tout their fair employment practices and in all my encounters they support them well. But there are equally just as many companies where words are used to ensure that human resources can only provide candidates that meet specific criteria that a pregnancy would disrupt.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
So in other words, you admit that you and everyone else shares the same sexist view toward childcare that only women would ever require a schedule modification to take care of their kids. Gotcha.


noemails

@bell.ca
i had a stay athome mom....ddi you miss out on the experience or is that concept new to you.from my side i think it would be nice that women having children are in the home not looking for daycare...


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

So in other words, you admit that you and everyone else shares the same sexist view toward childcare that only women would ever require a schedule modification to take care of their kids. Gotcha.

You got it wrong and you're going out of your way to have a little hissyfit about what I didn't write.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Hissyfit? Naw. I'm just pointing out that your view is a bit more one-sided than you think, and my hope is to broaden your perspective on the issue.

There are plenty of men at the CBSA who go on parental leave and have modified schedules to take care of their kids. Based on your own post, you seem to have this view that schedule modifications for children would only ever affect women and that despite their "strives" they have somehow now become less employable by this federal court ruling.

One should remember that this is 2013, not 1963. Society has moved to a point where raising children is an equal responsibility. To believe that only women would be affected by a ruling like this is in of itself the very sexism that you believe they would now be subject to as a result of it. That may not have been your intention, but that's certainly the end result.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
said by Gone:

There are plenty of men at the CBSA who go on parental leave and have modified schedules to take care of their kids.

You're not pointing anything out, only manufacturing a story. Feel free to bleet our your opinions on equality or "life at the CBSA" for the thread, but it's irrelevant for you to point this bluster in my direction.

I was referring to Canadian society when I said "men hardly ever do what you're referring to" not the CBSA and that wasn't an opinion, it's an experience.

If you can pull a statistic out of your ass that suggests men equally take as much time off as women for pregnancy or parental leave, then maybe you could dispute that aspect of my post.

However else you want to erroneously interpret what I write, well, that's your issue more than mine


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
i got from your post exactly what i also see...by far, woman take mat leave...yes, some men do take paternity leave, but i have only known/seen a small few do that...i never inferred from your post that its a woman's job to stay home and raise the baby and the men should stay at work.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to urbanriot
Men might hardly ever take care of the children in your subset of Canadian society, but I can assure you that it is far more common than your own limited view allows you to believe.

To which - how much they do is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that they do and this ruling affects men just as much as it does women. To hold the view that a ruling like this would only affect women and not men is in of itself sexist. You can chose to think otherwise, but that's just the reality of the situation.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
said by Gone:

Men might hardly ever take care of the children in your subset of Canadian society, but I can assure you that it is far more common than your own limited view allows you to believe.

My subset of Canadian society? You mean everyone else who's outside your limited CBSA sample set? Then by that token, yes, the majority of Canada does not follow what you're suggesting.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

You can chose to think otherwise, but that's just the reality of the situation.

Oh, and concerning the reality of the situation according to Statistics Canada, out of "eligible fathers", which doesn't include all fathers, 30% filed for parental leave.

So how common do you think I think it is? That's around what I was thinking, so clearly you don't know what I'm thinking.

I really don't care what men do or don't do so you presuming how I feel is a waste of hot air. I'm just telling you how it is, that women are asked these questions more than men are.

Who has a greater chance of getting pregnant? A man or a woman? It's a pretty simple risk assessment...


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
30% is a fairly significant number. That number is even higher than I thought it would be. If one third of all fathers are doing it, it's common enough.

I don't deny that the sexism you described toward women and caring for children is common. Having said that, just because it's common does not make it right, especially if 30% of all fathers are doing it too.

(for what it's worth, nearly all fathers would be eligible for parental leave. The ineligible ones would be the unemployed and self-employed, but that ineligibility applies to unemployed and self-employed women as well)


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to noemails
I could have had a stay at home dad for all you know.

I think it's nice that father's are stepping up and taking charge for the caring of their children if their wife wants to continue their career in the workforce.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Gone
You may have misinterpreted what I wrote as a suggestion that I endorse these hiring practices - I do not. On the contrary, my original motivation for posting was in dismay of this settlement as it's a psychological step back that will work against people in general.

As far as parenting goes, concerning stay-at-home configurations, I support whatever works best for that family. Personally I feel that it would be best for a woman to stay-at-home for raising daughters and a man when it's boys, but really it's whatever works for the family. Sometimes the woman is the primary breadwinner of the family and has the best benefits, pension, etc.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

I could have had a stay at home dad for all you know.

I think it's nice that father's are stepping up and taking charge for the caring of their children if their wife wants to continue their career in the workforce.

My husband's home 3 of 5 days of the week with our son, the other 2 he's in daycare. Which works well as Nathan gets interaction with children, and his speech is improving like crazy (he throws fits if I try to teach him new words, read to him, or sing to him, but has no problems if his teachers do it, go figure).

My job is the main breadwinner and provides our benefits, but without my husband's additional income from working full time in the evenings, we'd be absolutely sunk. We're only crawling out of our hole of debt now because of him switching to full time in the evenings, vs previously only working part time.

Our schedule is a lot different than most, but for now, works for us.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
I guess I'm lucky as my employer has accommodated my childcare issues for years but they know I'll always make up the time. Oh and I'm one of the few guys who took a couple of months parental leave for each of my kids. I also leave early every Wednesday to take my daughter to hockey and my employer is good with it. I'm one of the lucky few who have an employer that believes in work life balance.


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

I could have had a stay at home dad for all you know.

I think it's nice that father's are stepping up and taking charge for the caring of their children if their wife wants to continue their career in the workforce.

Nitz's friend does that. He's the "Stay at home dad", so Mom goes off to work at the bank, and he stays home with the kids, well, walks them to school now that they're older, she's more career driven, and he's more wanting to raise and care for his 2 kids....I mean I jab at him about it, but hey it works for them and they're both happy...he'd rather be "Mr. Mom".

Also, shift work is more than what others have posted...shift work can take a variety of careers....sheesh, in my industry I think its practically 50/50 down the middle...if not more so skewed towards women vs. men. Which is why I was interested in this as it could have some implications for me.