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drmcfluffy

join:2013-02-04

1 edit

[DSL] Trying to set up my DSL dry loop, Possible wiring prob

So I recently moved to downtown ottawa and got my dsl dry loop moved along with it.

Teksavvy has told me that bell as done what they need to do to my line (they never had to enter my home) but I still have no internet.

Before I risk the 100$+ tax or whatever to have bell check their line again I want to make sure it doesnt have to do with the wiring in my home.

I took a picture of the wiring in the basement

»imgur.com/a/dMnPx#0

as you can see from the pictures/descriptions they do not appear to be connected to anything at all, yet there is a phone jack beside it that has a cable leading up into the ceiling.

I have tried my modem with multiple cables on every phone jack in the house. As well as tried a regular phone on every jack with no dial tone(which should be expected it being dry loop no ?)

Is it possible that this is where the problem is?


vincom

join:2009-03-06
Bolton, ON
kudos:1

make sure you are connecting to the active paired wires, there are mulitiple pairs coming into your home


drmcfluffy

join:2013-02-04

said by vincom:

make sure you are connecting to the active paired wires

what are the active paired wires? do you mean something like the blue with yellow stripe, and yellow with blue stripe wires are paired?

can i take any of those types of pairs and use them fine?

vincom

join:2009-03-06
Bolton, ON
kudos:1

yes and no, if you know how to swap the wires where it enters your home
edit: how many wires are coming in, take a pic if u can


drmcfluffy

join:2013-02-04

I am in row housing and have a home on either side of my walls, so i don't know where on the outside of my home they are entering from.

Well bell installed my dry loop, they didnt contact me at all, and I don't know where the demarc point is. I just called to ask teksavvy when bell was supposed to come, and they said they were already by and installed everything i needed.


vincom

join:2009-03-06
Bolton, ON
kudos:1

in your house, if you have a basement thats where they usually coming in, check the jack in your wall and see how many wires are attached to your jack


drmcfluffy

join:2013-02-04

you can see pictures in this gallery
»imgur.com/a/dMnPx#2

there is 20+ cables coming through

i see pairs like
red / green stripe
green / red stripe

red/orange
orange/red

blue /yellow
yellow/blue

green/white
white/green

etc etc

When i remove a phone jack from a wall upstairs i see red/green/yellow/black, but as you see in the gallery, there is nothing connected to the cables in the basement


vincom

join:2009-03-06
Bolton, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Anveo
·TekSavvy Cable

2 edits

great, just switch the wires at the jack you're connecting the modem to, yel +black to red +green, pic is for reference only as the pic shows they are attaching an extra yellow+black wires

drmcfluffy

join:2013-02-04

did you look at the gallery i linked?

the big bundle of wires coming in from the silver box in my basement have nothing connected to them at all.


vincom

join:2009-03-06
Bolton, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Anveo
·TekSavvy Cable

2 edits

leave b'ment alone read my previous post

edit: looking at your pics you could do the swapping at the basement, but you could do that after once you can confirm you have internet connection when swapping the wires from the jack ur connecting the modem to


Scycotic

join:2012-12-10

how would switching the wires at the jack make any difference when his whole house's telephone wiring isn't even connected to the external demarc?


vincom

join:2009-03-06
Bolton, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Anveo
·TekSavvy Cable

said by Scycotic:

how would switching the wires at the jack make any difference when his whole house's telephone wiring isn't even connected to the external demarc?

are you sure, there must of been service there b4, i couldnt tell by looking at the pics

Scycotic

join:2012-12-10

Seems like it...my suspicion is that the house wiring ends at the box here: »imgur.com/a/dMnPx#4
And that he needs to connect the external line to it. Problem is he just has a bunch of wires without any way of telling which is which.


vincom

join:2009-03-06
Bolton, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Anveo
·TekSavvy Cable

i cant tell wtf the pic is showing to tell you the truth, usually/always no one cuts the wires from demarc to interior, disconnects are usually done at demarc, bell will usually connect the 2nd pair for dryloop and leave the first pair for active phone line


drmcfluffy

join:2013-02-04
reply to vincom

I have uploaded another gallery

»imgur.com/a/IKsIj#0

I have checked and the cables on the phone jack upstairs look exactly like you said. I also ran to one of my neighbours across the street and took a picture of his connection in the basement (which is also included in the gallery i linked »imgur.com/a/IKsIj#0)

He has his yellow/blue stripe connecting to red and blue/yellow stripe connecting to green, which is connected to the cables that travel to different parts of the home. This is missing from my basement connections


drmcfluffy

join:2013-02-04
reply to vincom

they had cable, but the previous tennants were kicked out because they werent maintaining the home at all, and from what i could tell when i first saw the home before it got renovated/cleaned up was that he was a HUGE do it yourselfer but was bad at it.

So for all I know something could have been ripped off the wall before. but if you look at the images in the first gallery, there is only 4 wires that are exposed, and the ends arent even stripped.

»imgur.com/a/dMnPx#3

the red/ green stripe, green/red stripe and red/orange pair as well


mactalla

join:2008-02-19
kudos:1
reply to drmcfluffy

said by drmcfluffy:

Teksavvy has told me that bell as done what they need to do to my line (they never had to enter my home) but I still have no internet.

It's possible that the Bell tech never even went to your premises. He may have just made sure the other end was connected to their equipment and provisioned it expecting that the wires at your house are good to go.

The reason I mention this is I was under the impression it is standard practice to install a demarc box if one doesn't exist (or it's really old). If the first photo you posted is your feed coming directly from Bell and there's no demarc outside your home then you don't actually have a demarc box. This also means that if you have any trouble on your line they cannot legally bill you unless there was a demarc with a test jack connected prior to their visit. So the visit they make to install the demarc is free of charge.

said by drmcfluffy:

I took a picture of the wiring in the basement

»imgur.com/a/dMnPx#0

as you can see from the pictures/descriptions they do not appear to be connected to anything at all, yet there is a phone jack beside it that has a cable leading up into the ceiling.

I can't tell from these images whether any of the wires are feeding up the metal conduit from that junction box. Assuming that none of the wires are running up that conduit, and that cable is the feed from Bell, then your first step is to find which pair is your line.

You could do this with a telephone and a jack. Even with a dry loop I believe you should get a dialtone. However, if you have a multimeter that should prove easier. Test for voltage across each pair. You can identify which wires are paired by their colours. One will be primarily a colour with a secondary colour in strips. Its pair will have the colours reversed. Eg. in your 2nd image you can clearly see yellow with blue strips and blue with yellow strips. That would be a pair.

If you can't find an active pair then either 1. that's not your Bell feed or 2. Bell didn't do their job. If you do find your pair it should be straightforward to connect it to whichever jack you choose in your home.

drmcfluffy

join:2013-02-04

how would i test the wires though ? would i just start cutting each pair and connecting it to one of the jacks beside it and checking for a dial tone?

and what do you you mean by "feeding up the metal conduit from that junction box" currently all the cables go from the grey cabling below that came out of my awll, up into the metal pipe at the top of the box that then runs across my ceiling into the opposite wall except for;

red/green stripe , green/red strip , red/orange stripe, orange/red stripe, those come out of the bottom and just end (as seen in »imgur.com/a/dMnPx#2)


MrMazda86

join:2013-01-29
Kitchener, ON

1 edit
reply to drmcfluffy

@OP: See my posts in this forum thread. I think it should answer your questions of which wires should go to which wires.

As for what lines you are supposed to connect to, I would take a phone jack and connect it to each pair of wires on the main set. You will then need to plug a telephone into that jack. Make sure that you have your dry gas line number available... You may need to call TekSavvy for this. Once you have this number, pick up the telephone and see if you have a dial-tone. If you do, dial 519-958-2580 and listen for the number that it spits out to you. If you hear your dry gas line #, BINGO!!! You've found the right pair. Then the only question will be which wire is the tip (green) and which wire is the ring (red).

You may need to check the box outside of your home for that. If there is no box as the main trunk runs directly into your home (if that's the case), then it will simply be a matter of trial and error until you find the right wires. Also, if you are not in the 519 area code, you can substitute the area code for any of the original area codes (e.g. for 226 use 519, for 647 use 416, for 289 use 905, etc). If this number does not work, try it as NPA-958-2622


mactalla

join:2008-02-19
kudos:1
reply to drmcfluffy

said by drmcfluffy:

and what do you you mean by "feeding up the metal conduit from that junction box" currently all the cables go from the grey cabling below that came out of my awll, up into the metal pipe at the top of the box that then runs across my ceiling into the opposite wall except for;

red/green stripe , green/red strip , red/orange stripe, orange/red stripe, those come out of the bottom and just end (as seen in »imgur.com/a/dMnPx#2)

That was exactly my question. So that means your line should either be on the red/green pair or the red/orange pair. Is that really green/red? It looks green/brown in the photo. Anyway, you've got a couple choices there. If it's not one of those pairs, then you need to look into the remaining pairs. "... runs across [your] ceiling into the opposite wall" Is that still your house or is that going to the neighbours?

said by drmcfluffy:

how would i test the wires though ? would i just start cutting each pair and connecting it to one of the jacks beside it and checking for a dial tone?

Yup. As MrMazda86 says, if you don't have a demarc box outside your house to look into it comes down to trial and error. The phone tech would do the same thing. Connect to a pair and check for a signal. Repeat until the correct pair is found. You obviously don't want to be cutting the wires going up that metal tube. Instead, find where they exit and the tips exposed.

ShetiPhian

join:2011-12-29
Belleville, ON
reply to drmcfluffy

I've seen similar setups.
At the end of your building is the demarc with a test panel (end of bells responsibility) either outside or in a utility room.
The large bundled cable is building owned and is the phone lines for everyone in your building.
As it passes through the apartments the assigned pairs are cut and the rest continue to the next one.

By the look of it everyone is provisioned two lines.
your primary one is the orange/red pair and the secondary is the green/red pair.

Try connecting the orange/red pair to the red&green terminals on a phone jack, it should work. if not try the green/red pair.
If neither work do not touch the other wires, bell has connected your service to the wrong pairs (or not at all)


MrMazda86

join:2013-01-29
Kitchener, ON
reply to drmcfluffy

As I mentioned though... Make sure that you have the correct line. Depending on where those wires go, you may get a false dial tone. This is why I recommend using the NPA-958-2580 (or in some areas, NPA-958-2622) to make sure that you have the correct line. Usually what I used for doing such tasks is a pre-done phone jack. The way this works is you take a piece of phone cord and attach the red and green to alligator clips. From there, attach the other end of the wires to the new phone jack. This will effectively give you a clip-on connection to be able to test the wires more easily.


drmcfluffy

join:2013-02-04
reply to ShetiPhian

I tried connecting both sets of pairs to the phone jack beside it, did not get a dial tone from either

So if I get teksavvy to send another bell guy, how can i be sure that they know everything and do the job correctly?

The last time I was supposed to get an email to confirm my installation date (which never happened) and when I called teksavvy a week later they said bell already installed it that friday (which we had someone home that entire time)

i.e I don't want a bell guy to come and 'fix' a connection without confirming the line in my home is active.


MrMazda86

join:2013-01-29
Kitchener, ON

Unfortunately, with Bell there are never guarantees. From my experience, most of their technicians don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. What I suspect happened is a Bell tech got lazy and decided that they were just going to provision the line, without actually checking it at demarc. This happens all too frequently, especially if the weather is undesirable.



xbell

@cgocable.net
reply to drmcfluffy

As others have posted the cabling has two lines that were provisioned for your unit. Don't cut any of the other pairs as they are for your neighbours. As you don't know which direction the cabling is running you have 4 possible connections. Hook a jack to the 2 pairs coming in one side of the conduit and check your sync. If that doesn't work check the other two coming in the other side of the conduit. The line is probably disconnected as they had cable and phone service from them and tapped into the house wiring at the demarc and never hooked it back up. If you don't sync then the two circuits are not hooked up at the terminal where the cabling goes to and you will need Bell. If you find the terminal check inside as your dry loop may be labelled and you can hook up one of the two pairs that go into your place. If you live in a multi unit dwelling that is older Bell is supposed to provision to the first point of presence in your unit into a test port.