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TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to Davesnothere

Re: Globe & Other 2011-44 (UBB) articles

said by Davesnothere:

said by tristen1230:

Teksavvy Cable is coming very soon. I am a beta tester. They have even stated it is ready to be done. They are just waiting for something so there will be no surprises in the future. (Not good surprises)

 
Yes, I've been following the related threads, and while it's good to hear/read, it's also about damned time !

START proved that the AGG POI system works reliably, way back in last APRIL, not only for Cogeco's hookup but also for Rogers'.

I'd say that Marc owes Mister Rocca some huge box of Tim-Bits for sticking his head into those fires first.

TSI could have offered packages similar to START's quite a while ago already, and chose not to.

Sure, the monthly usage caps would not be as high as those which TSI is accustomed to offering, but would still be a lot better than forcing us to consider Cogeco retail (which I briefly used before moving to START), and still a bit lower in price to the consumer than Cogeco, with lower priced UBB than Cogeco's.

WOW. This is such a load of bull. Pretty sure its the other way around if anything chum. We spent a massive amount of money, time, resources on the very decisions that eventually led to ATPIA existing at all. So much so that we took our eye off the ball and it took a few years to get back on track and we lost a soldier along the way to boot. We played a major role in CNOC getting created to continue to push and many have helped since. I don't want to diminish anybody who did help, including Pete, but there's no way I'm going to sit here and be lectured on what we should and shouldn't have done. The fact is that we did act. We acted big time. That has had consequences. A year ago I was on here getting blasted right left and center. The notion of expanding further into Cogeco territory and at the same time have to raise rates or swallow tens of thousands a month given that we had existing users in our own backyard. No thanks. I know what would have happened. It would have been an even bigger mess. It was a deliberate decision. That others have stepped up is a positive outcome of all the efforts over the past 5 years. It doesn't help anything to say such things, it wasn't possible for us to win every single fight alone. Others needed to help, its why we were so committed to setting up CNOC. For me personally, these comments are insult to injury. And frankly, you're ignoring the biggest hit on the chin that we did take in the last year.. DSL. Shit the last CRTC decision was basically designed to target us almost exclusively. They wanted us to pay crazy rates and all because we offered a great Internet connection with great usage options. The ultimate penalty for ten years of serving up exactly what you guys wanted.

Now that they have us basically assuming the position and can see that maybe they went too far, seems they may have realized that the problem was never us to begin with... We'll have to see what CBB rates look like but if nothing changes my friends. DSL is basically dead for anything useful. If they would apply the same CBB rates to all other incumbents. ATPIA would also be dead, like it is now with Cogeco I.e. no more competition for independent ISPs. So you'll forgive my reluctance to migrate anything to ATPIA when it's basically one throat to choke. One more bad decision and we're all screwed.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


Davesnothere
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START Today!
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4 edits

 

said by TSI Marc:

WOW. This is such a load of bull. Pretty sure its the other way around if anything, chum. We spent a massive amount of money, time, resources on the very decisions that eventually led to ATPIA existing at all. So much so that we took our eye off the ball and it took a few years to get back on track and we lost a soldier along the way to boot. We played a major role in CNOC getting created to continue to push and many have helped since. I don't want to diminish anybody who did help, including Pete, but there's no way I'm going to sit here and be lectured on what we should and shouldn't have done. The fact is that we did act. We acted big time. That has had consequences. A year ago I was on here getting blasted right left and center. The notion of expanding further into Cogeco territory and at the same time have to raise rates or swallow tens of thousands a month given that we had existing users in our own backyard. No thanks. I know what would have happened. It would have been an even bigger mess. It was a deliberate decision. That others have stepped up is a positive outcome of all the efforts over the past 5 years. It doesn't help anything to say such things, it wasn't possible for us to win every single fight alone. Others needed to help, its why we were so committed to setting up CNOC. For me personally, these comments are insult to injury. And frankly, you're ignoring the biggest hit on the chin that we did take in the last year.. DSL. Shit the last CRTC decision was basically designed to target us almost exclusively. They wanted us to pay crazy rates and all because we offered a great Internet connection with great usage options. The ultimate penalty for ten years of serving up exactly what you guys wanted.

Now that they have us basically assuming the position and can see that maybe they went too far, seems they may have realized that the problem was never us to begin with... We'll have to see what CBB rates look like but if nothing changes my friends. DSL is basically dead for anything useful. If they would apply the same CBB rates to all other incumbents. ATPIA would also be dead, like it is now with Cogeco I.e. no more competition for independent ISPs. So you'll forgive my reluctance to migrate anything to ATPIA when it's basically one throat to choke. One more bad decision and we're all screwed.

 
[ Dave thinks he may have hit a nerve. ]

Marc, I have given TSI credit where it is due, time and time again (check my post history), and I still do (check my post history), but I sincerely feel that this time, and on this issue, it is not due.

I have been around here long enough to know how hard that you guys have worked for us, and you still do, and am aware of most of the ways, so when a couple of sentences from me get a wall of negativity posted in response, yeah, I guess I hit a nerve.

Yes, TSI has done all of the good deeds which you said, and continues to fight the good fight, but really, does that mean that I have to be judged wrong to say what I said above ?

Cannot we both be right at the same time ? (though about different things)

Which part of what I said is the 'main bull' for you, anyway ?

You COULD during the past number of months also have done what I said in my last 2 earlier posted paragraphs regarding Cogeco-Land, and if costed out carefully, you would not have risked/lost anything which START hasn't.

Admittedly, I am unaware of the dynamics, demographics, and costing of what you already had in place for your Chatham Cogeco-fed folks. - Are you saying that if you went ATPIA with Cogeco, that moving THEIR accounts to it at current costing would take youse to the cleaners ? - If yes to that, then I must agree/suggest that you have been too generous for too long to too many heavy users over the years, and as much as it may go against what you believe (and as I have on many other occasions preached on this next point over the past 2+ years - Longer than the age of THIS thread !), perhaps a little properly structured old-fashioned UBB, at ALL levels of the food chain, might well be the right thing for everybody.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !


Davesnothere
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Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

....you're ignoring the biggest hit on the chin that we did take in the last year.. DSL.

Shit, the last CRTC decision was basically designed to target us almost exclusively.

They wanted us to pay crazy rates and all because we offered a great Internet connection with great usage options....

 
In theory, and sure I'm prob'ly oversimplifying, that would seem to be all the more reason to diversify ASAP into Cable in as many areas as possible, to take some of the sting out of what happened to the DSL costs, and give yourselves more ways to skin the cat, no ?


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to Davesnothere

Hey Dave,

I wasn't able to get back to the board to reply sooner.

I read your original post and it wasn't positive at all. And I responded as such. Why shoot down the good things we did to justify the good things others did? To you, it's all good. It's a false premise and that's what I'm pointing out.

The notion that ATPIA and TPIA are different in any way except network configuration is just false... We setup with Cogeco something like three years ago. Had the CRTC proceedings not have taken place we would have launched in more areas by now. We were asking for more areas and we were literally denied due to the ongoing proceedings.

I think what you are actually saying is that we 'could' have migrated to aggregated a year ago and offered to their entire footprint and given those people more options. Just as, others could also, and they did. So I say to you, kudos for others who did, at their own risk, but we were already saddled with a massive amount of risk in a number of different ways. A year ago, we were in the process of moving due to a complete lack of space. It was truly a massive problem for us. We were in the middle of a massive stop sell. We were in the middle of having to raise rates on all our users. We had awful wait times. We had massive DHCP issues. It was a massive cluster fuck. (Pardon my French).

To have launched into the rest of the Cogeco territory at that point, with the incumbent that is literally the most difficult to deal with. The most expensive CBB wise as well. At a time where our cost completely went through the roof on the DSL side. Would have been absolutely reckless.

The part that hits the nerve for me is that it was a major pill to swallow to not deploy. And to have you stick it in my face like that, when all I was trying to do all along was to give people more options because I know how awful incumbents have been.. That what hits the nerve. I'm glad for you guys that it made sense for others to have launched it. But frankly, just like Pete didn't know it was going to take this long to get a decision from the CRTC, we too didn't know that and so we figured we'd wait a few months. We didn't know it was going to take this long.

So my point to you is that it wasn't because I didn't want to. It was because I really couldn't, not with everything else going on. For that, I feel like I let you down and I'm sorry for that. I really do wish it was us who could have offered it to you first. After all, you too had been waiting patiently for those proceeding to finish so you could have options.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

said by TSI Marc:

....you're ignoring the biggest hit on the chin that we did take in the last year.. DSL.

Shit, the last CRTC decision was basically designed to target us almost exclusively.

They wanted us to pay crazy rates and all because we offered a great Internet connection with great usage options....

 
In theory, and sure I'm prob'ly oversimplifying, that would seem to be all the more reason to diversify ASAP into Cable in as many areas as possible, to take some of the sting out of what happened to the DSL costs, and give yourselves more ways to skin the cat, no ?

Nah, Cogeco is the most expensive. Anybody who is selling Cogeco ATPIA is literally hurting their company.

We figured that just to break even on our existing subs, we would have had to raise rates by about $10/mth. How would you feel about raising rates like that on your neighbours when you just laid off 50 people? That's still true today, but now we feel like the CRTC decision, has got to be imminent, so we're going ahead with the migration this week coming up. And plus most of the others issues we had at the time last year are now under control largely.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


Davesnothere
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join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

....We setup with Cogeco something like three years ago. Had the CRTC proceedings not have taken place we would have launched in more areas by now. We were asking for more areas and we were literally denied due to the ongoing proceedings.

I think what you are actually saying is that we 'could' have migrated to aggregated a year ago and offered to their entire footprint and given those people more options....

....To have launched into the rest of the Cogeco territory at that point.... ....would have been absolutely reckless.

The part that hits the nerve for me is that it was a major pill to swallow to not deploy....

....But frankly, just like Pete didn't know it was going to take this long to get a decision from the CRTC, we too didn't know that and so we figured we'd wait a few months. We [both TSI and Start] didn't know it was going to take this long.

So my point to you is that it wasn't because I didn't want to. It was because I really couldn't, not with everything else going on. For that, I feel like I let you down and I'm sorry for that. I really do wish it was us who could have offered it to you first. After all, you too had been waiting patiently for those proceeding to finish so you could have options.

 
Marc, I did not mean to trivialize all the good that you and TSI have done/catalyzed over the years (and the other things which were/are weighing on you and the company) by my dwelling on that one issue, but I guess I did just THAT, and given also that Start has already offered me what I needed, perhaps there was little reason for me to say as much about it.

I didn't use all that many words to express myself ( THAT time ), but it seems that the ones which I chose were excessively hurtful, and for that I apologize.

However, what I was expressing in the post in question (and which you fully quoted) was the all-too-common feeling of being neglected which is felt by SOOOOOO many of us in smaller communities about one or another good or service - and BTW I did include 3 big smilies after the Tim-Bits remark, the way that JF would when he was poking fun here.

Really, it was intended as some light-hearted ribbing, and I'm sorry if it went too far.

Yes, we were/are ALL waiting, toutes ensemble, for widespread cable A-TPIA (and some other things) to happen - yourself, Pete, myself, and other subscribers, some of whom have not said much lately, and others who have.

I sincerely hope - for EVERYBODY's sake - that the CRTC comes back soon with a sensible approach to CBB rates - OR, even tosses CBB out and sets some sensible bulk wholesale UBB rates for all of the incumbents to follow - I still maintain that using UBB is the easier math, provided that the greed does not kick in.

OK, I'll now go and make a coffee, and then read your PM.

Cheers !

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Dave. To me the thing that I felt was important to set straight was the notion that I knew you guys felt neglected and that I deliberately ignored that. That I didn't care. That's really the part that for me I have a problem with... It's the idea of taking something that is serious and that affects many people and to trivialize it and then to hold me accountable for it. When it wasn't at all the case that I didn't care or that I didn't take it seriously.

Anyway, it's all good. These are the consequences when they bugger up these decisions.. We all get tugged in one way or another. I think it's more a matter of clearing the air.. Reconcile what's happened and move on. I don't think this was ever discussed straight on like this either. And of course the same factors affected everyone in various ways... I'm sure for example, many we're trying to get in on legacy TPIA but couldn't as well...
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



Davesnothere
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2 edits

said by TSI Marc:

....I don't think this was ever discussed straight on like this either....

 
So possibly this conversation of ours has done (or will do) some good, as all I think I had ever noticed in the past (in TSI forum here) were some rather vague hints about the reasons.

Yes, some of us felt/feel neglected on some things, and that is not really 'breaking news', hearing it from me.

No, I did not mean to imply that you do not care, and I think that I only had mentioned the company rather than yourself in my tougher sounding early comments last night.

I realize that other folks' input at work contributes to your business decisions, though given that you maintain an active prescence here sometimes serves to blur that distinction.

Don't stop posting.

--

DavesNotHere - Resident $#!t-disturber

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

Well, the reasons were stated at the time... But that didn't help anybody... Nobody wanted to hear that. And plus, we were busy dealing with everything else. The costs are and were always the primary reason... If those made sense, like you say, why not open up the entire footprint and help take the pressure off DSL... The reason is because it would have added more pressure since ATPIA with Cogeco was worse that DSL still... And frankly, had others not come along, you guys might have kept up the pressure and we might have gone ahead sooner.. Who knows.

There's no way something like that gets done without my say so... When you point to the company, you're pointing at me. It was me who made those decisions. So naturally, I will backup why I did what I did...

I think we're talking about it now because we're in the middle of converting now... Until now there was always something else going on and no matter what was said.. We still weren't converting in your eyes.. So, it was falling on deaf ears. We were all invested in what's transpired over the last few years...
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy