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walile

join:2013-02-10

1 edit
reply to TypeS

Re: [Cable] TEKSAVVY, KICK YOUR LAWYERS IN THE ASS

said by TypeS:

Again, using the excuse that you're paying TekSavvy so it's their problem to fix (when you full well know they can't since its not their equipment) is just feigning ignorance.

Do you think you will escape these problems by going with Start or Distributel?

Stop laying the blame on the independents trying to make a difference and do something yourself to change the horrid way the telecommunications industry is run.

Say you buy an iPad from Apple, and due to a manufacturing flaw your logic board fried under normal usage. Are you gonna call Apple for the warranty or do you expect people to tell you that the problem does not lie with Apple but rather their supplier Foxconn?


MrMazda86

join:2013-01-29
Kitchener, ON

1 edit
reply to TypeS

+1

To add to that, you also have to consider the reason for the outage. In this case, the "problem" was the result of a serious snow storm that passed through the area, combined with driver stupidity, which resulted in an unforeseen motor vehicle collision that damaged equipment that effectively took out Rogers, TekSavvy, and AllStream. TekSavvy and AllStream have been confirmed by official TSI Staff in the forum, and I personally have phoned a few Rogers customers that I know in London, who have all confirmed their internet is experiencing the exact same issue.

Given the nature of the cause of the issue, how exactly can you fault TekSavvy in any way for this? If you have anyone to blame, it would be the driver found to be at fault for the transport truck that damaged this equipment, and they (in theory) have insurance. As sad as it is to say, the only thing that can be expected of TekSavvy is to make every reasonable effort possible to restore service. What you need to understand though is that depending on the severity of the crash and the weather conditions as they continue (such as the freezing rain in that area), it may take some time to be able to clear the crash site before being able to begin the repairs necessary to restore service.

As far as TekSavvy or Rogers are concerned (as much as I *HATE* standing up for Rogers), there was absolutely nothing they could possibly have done that would have prevented this outage. Especially on Rogers' part, this is not always the case, so take a chill pill, or go smoke a big fat dubie or something because you need to relax.

(EDIT: I forgot to mention... At TekSavvy, if you post your account details in the TekSavvy Direct forum, or call them (1-877-779-1575) and politely request a credit for the service outage that you've experienced, you may be surprised at how willing they will be to comply. This is another area where TekSavvy beats Bell and Rogers any day of the week. From my experience, whenever I've had a problem with a service not working, they have *NEVER* thought it unreasonable to not want to pay for service that I couldn't receive.)



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

1 edit
reply to walile

said by walile:

Say you buy an iPad from Apple, and due to a manufacturing flaw your logic board fried under normal usage. Are you gonna call Apple for the warranty or do you expect people to tell you that the problem does not lie with Apple but rather their supplier Foxconn?

A better one would be, you order an iPod from Apple, they ship with via UPS/FedEx (or whomever else) and the courier the proceeds to deliver to an address in the wrong city, they lose it, it gets damaged en route, etc.

Your issue (and Apples now if they care to get involved) is now with the courier.


Perma

join:2011-12-20
reply to tGelinas

I absolutely understand that TSI's hands are pretty much tied in situations like this and I'm not blaming them, but they should be issuing credits for the time the service was down. They are the provider, and we as the customers are not being provided with the service currently.



AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by Perma:

I absolutely understand that TSI's hands are pretty much tied in situations like this and I'm not blaming them, but they should be issuing credits for the time the service was down. They are the provider, and we as the customers are not being provided with the service currently.

Indie ISPs like TSI cannot offer credits like BHell or Robbers because of very thin margins. The majority of what a customer pays goes back to BHell or Robbers in the form of fees. The indies have to pay BHell or Robbers whether a customer is happy or not so it's a matter of finances for the indies who must also have have enough left over to cover their own operating expenses. The CRTC sets most of the fees through industry regulation so it's a lot more complex than just offering a credit.
--
BHell... A Public Futility.


Perma

join:2011-12-20

That's not the customers problem. Would Teksavvy provide me with internet if I wasn't paying them? I shouldn't pay Teksavvy for internet I'm not receiving, Margins or not.



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

While I won't debate whether you should or shouldn't receive a credit back, by all means go make a post in direct forums and ask (I doubt they will deny).

Can you at least see it from TekSavvy's point of view? They offer plans that are heavily discounted from the incumbents advertised rates. Then they offerr large or unlimited data that further erodes profits due to capacity costs. And the outage occurs that they literally had no control over at all. There was no amount of planning that could have prevented a truck damaging network equipment. They've done nothing wrong and did not willfully cut your service.

What I've gathered from these forums since reading them the past 6 months is people are pretty ungrateful for the service TekSavvy, Start and all the other TPIAs have offered at great cost to their own companies in razor thin profit margins. People came to them looking to save money on their monthly bill, they got that. The slightest hiccup, and its pitchforks and lit torches.


mattb3

join:2013-02-09
London, ON
reply to Perma

I can deal with an outage once in a while without really thinking a credit is necessary, and I know it's not teksavvy's fault, nor could it have been avoided, but there has been 2 extended outages within a week of each other... I need internet access for most of what I do for work/school, and after the last 2 weekends I'm almost out of data on my cell plan. I have enough data for probably another couple hours worth of internet use, but after that I'll have to shut off my cell data, leaving me without wireless data for a week until my next billing cycle.

I understand that these things happen, and that there are a lot of people getting too worked up over it, but if Rogers is indeed delaying the repair to spite third party providers, I think some action needs to be taken.



Perma

join:2011-12-20
reply to TypeS

Why don't you read what I wrote? I said I know TSI's hands are tied and I don't blame them. Their business model is low priced, unlimited internet, so due to that we shouldn't expect a break in our payments due to not having service?

If you went to McDonald's and they left out a part of your meal, say the fries or the pop, would you not expect a credit for it?



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1

If the server at McDonald's forgot to give you your fries or drink, they made a preventable mistake.

Where did TekSavvy drop the ball with a downed fibre trunk? Or when Rogers tinkers with their CMTS equipment?



Perma

join:2011-12-20

Again, read what I previously typed out. If McDonald's couldn't provide you with the fries because their supplier ran out but still charged you the full price of the combo, would you not expect a credit? Answer the question, yes or no.



AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Perma

said by Perma:

Why don't you read what I wrote? I said I know TSI's hands are tied and I don't blame them. Their business model is low priced, unlimited internet, so due to that we shouldn't expect a break in our payments due to not having service?

If you went to McDonald's and they left out a part of your meal, say the fries or the pop, would you not expect a credit for it?

Apples and oranges comparison. Mc Donalds pricing is not regulated by the government and there is little restraint on their margins. You need to use a comparable analogy.
--
BHell... A Public Futility.

JMJimmy

join:2008-07-23
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to tGelinas

In my view these are the things TSI needs to do:

1) Get hold times down - they're too long.

2) Communicate with other independent ISPs working with Robbers to document a pattern of intentional delays/interference with install/support issues. Record how long it takes to get various types of problems resolved - then force it to the CRTC or courtroom and have it compared against Robber's internal stats on resolving those same issues for their customers. If they differ, nail them to the wall.

3) Obtain a ruling from the CRTC that allows TSI to pro-rate what they pay Bell/Robbers in cases of error. ie: a customer's profile gets knocked back to a lower profile when the support ticket had nothing to do with their profile = pro-rated Bell fees for the amount of time it affects the customer. Robbers disconnects services and claims TSI techs did it? No install fee paid to Robbers and is refunded to the customer.

These wouldn't be easy to do, but until there's financial disincentives they'll continue to mess with TSI's customers because they want to make TSI look as bad as possible to get "their" customers back.

Expand your moderator at work


tGelinas

@wind.ca

Re: [Cable] TEKSAVVY, KICK YOUR LAWYERS IN THE ASS

Yeah, it was pretty late when I posted this and I was being a bit ridiculous with my wording. Seriously, a big truck destroyed a bunch of fibre lines, we can't really chalk this up to a simple routing issue

Plus, again, I didn't mean to make a whole thread about it, just a post in the general "boo hoo, internet's down" thread.

If there really is a pattern of Rogers dragging their feet on repairs, though, Teksavvy and Distributel should prove it and fight Rogers!

Expand your moderator at work


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to tGelinas

Re: [Cable] TEKSAVVY, KICK YOUR LAWYERS IN THE ASS

I keep reading of people who have purchased an internet service or phone service and are absolutely dependent on it for their business. If that's the case, then you need an alternate service if it's THAT important.

I have my own business (although by and large it's currently dormant), and I can cope with a few hours downtime ... it's not too big a deal, and if worst comes to worst, I can get a dial up service up and running in about 30 minutes. So, I can cope ... it's not going to lose me $$$ if I lose my connection.

If you're running an email or web server out of your home over a residential connection and it's critical, then you shouldn't be! Your servers should be somewhere that's less likely to fail than a residential connection. At least that way, worst comes to worst, you can do as they did in NYC during Sandy and rush to the nearest closed Starbucks and use their wifi! (yup it happened).

If service is that important you need a backup plan.

Expand your moderator at work


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to TypeS

Re: [Cable] TEKSAVVY, KICK YOUR LAWYERS IN THE ASS

said by TypeS:

said by walile:

Say you buy an iPad from Apple, and due to a manufacturing flaw your logic board fried under normal usage. Are you gonna call Apple for the warranty or do you expect people to tell you that the problem does not lie with Apple but rather their supplier Foxconn?

A better one would be, you order an iPod from Apple, they ship with via UPS/FedEx (or whomever else) and the courier the proceeds to deliver to an address in the wrong city, they lose it, it gets damaged en route, etc.

Your issue (and Apples now if they care to get involved) is now with the courier.

What is with all these dumb analogies? ISP != A currier. Teksavvy owns it's own infrastructure. They just do not own the last mile. They have millions invested. UPS etc is a delivery boy. Nothing more, unless you consider TSI a gateway and nothing more.

Quit with these weird food, car, currier analogies, it's silly to compare any to the ISP industry.

I think the argument is simple, TSI is not a reseller, OP was bitching about an SLA. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If you're an ISP, your an ISP. As such it's advertised as one everywhere now. Granny Margret doesn't want Bell anymore, Teksavvy looks like nice folk. To then tell her what on an outage?

This outage was unforeseen. If it was caused by weather then give TSI and even Rogers a break, no one could help it. Get outside for a few minutes and enjoy some fresh air.

Teksavvy has accepted far more then many on here have. They take the blame and say sorry as of lately because they are an ISP. Indie or not. "Sorry sir we are currently experiencing an outage at the moment our technicians are doing their best to get the trucks rolling to do the repairs"

Teksavvy cannot also provide 6 months free credit like many think. Well they could, but imagine if they did this for 50% of their 300k customers? Chapter 11 here we come.

This is the same as that plane that was stuck on the tarmac for 13 hours and the airline gave everyone $25 food voucher and $125 for something else. I don't get why? The plane was there because of the weather, it's not their fault, just like this isn't Teksavvy's fault.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to sbrook

said by sbrook:

I keep reading of people who have purchased an internet service or phone service and are absolutely dependent on it for their business. If that's the case, then you need an alternate service if it's THAT important.

I have my own business (although by and large it's currently dormant), and I can cope with a few hours downtime ... it's not too big a deal, and if worst comes to worst, I can get a dial up service up and running in about 30 minutes. So, I can cope ... it's not going to lose me $$$ if I lose my connection.

If you're running an email or web server out of your home over a residential connection and it's critical, then you shouldn't be! Your servers should be somewhere that's less likely to fail than a residential connection. At least that way, worst comes to worst, you can do as they did in NYC during Sandy and rush to the nearest closed Starbucks and use their wifi! (yup it happened).

If service is that important you need a backup plan.

+100

If your livelihood is that dependant on it, i've never understood why people don't create some contingency plans. If it means food on my table, i'd sacrifice a few extra $$ per month for a backup plan.

I've never understood this at all and i hate that it's the go to excuse too. Back in the 90's people installed a T1 trunk line in their businesses never mind an ISP's regular DSL connection.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to Tx

The airline does it because they want the passengers to come back and fly with them again. (13 hours sitting on an airplane on the ground is excessive in a plane designed for flights of a few hours duration. There are ways to deplane them ... but the bottom line is that it too is cost



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by sbrook:

The airline does it because they want the passengers to come back and fly with them again. (13 hours sitting on an airplane on the ground is excessive in a plane designed for flights of a few hours duration. There are ways to deplane them ... but the bottom line is that it too is cost

Point being, it shouldn't have to be a form of begging customers back when the fault lays on no one. I'm sure there were reasons for not deplaning them. Working in the airline industry for a brief minute of my life, tons of things can stop them from it. Cost of course as you said being one.

Still not their fault. This is why i said even Rogers isn't at fault, no one has a clue if Rogers is out repairing anything or not. Everyone is too content with getting what they want, how they want it, when they want it.

Takes time, it sure as heck isn't a priority over anyone who is without power after the storm. You're without internet, how about those in NS each storm we get. Thank your lucky stars, spend time with your family or friends and when the internet is back it's back.

As you said that i agreed with, if it's business related, you the business owner are also at fault for not having a backup plan.

Samgee

join:2010-08-02
canada
kudos:2
reply to tGelinas

There isn't much reason to get upset with Teksavvy, all TPIA providers are the same in their ability to influence the network managers and provide the service to their customers. Not sure where you got the false idea that one would have "superior routing".

I think you're more upset that you made the decision to go with the more expensive provider and have realized that you would have been just as well off to go with the lower cost option.



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Tx

Well actually I was alluding to the courier being Rogers, not TekSavvy, and TekSavvy is the retailer with the original product. But I agree the analogies are silly and I've been saying that anytime someone tries to come up with a bogus one to compare TekSavvy too.


walile

join:2013-02-10
reply to Tx

said by Tx:

Teksavvy cannot also provide 6 months free credit like many think. Well they could, but imagine if they did this for 50% of their 300k customers? Chapter 11 here we come.

Take it easy there. Nobody, at least not myself would expect 6 months of free service for a few days of outage.

I am new to the forum and I got the impression that we have many, huh should we say loyal supports of TekSavvy here. Not necessarily addressing this to you but TypeS certainly is one.

While I am very glad that TekSavvy is making the ISP business more competitive. I am also paying them $840/year for their service.

People here can defend TekSavvy all you want, start a cult if you feel like it. But in the mean time, I expect to get the service that I paid for with my hard earn dollar, simple as that.