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hm

@videotron.ca
reply to LastDon

Re: Day5. Live Stream

said by LastDon:

said by hm :

CRTC Chair to MTS: Something like 70% of the population where you are serving are French speaking. Do you offer French Contracts?

MTS: Um, er, um, er, fair question. No.

CRTC Chair to MTS: How do you make sure people are aware of the contractual conditions

MTS: We explain it to them with our bilingual sales people.

hmm...

is this true? lol gosh

Sad ay.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to hm

Re: The New Wireless Code Hearings. Live Stream @ 9-am

Videotron Speech:

The big 3 are well ahead of us by 20-years. We are one of the new entrants.

Translator mumbled and messed up how many people they have. grrr

Quebec's Bill 60 came in 2.5 years ago. They have done much good. Everyone agrees including the suppliers.

Translator is messing up... so some parts are garbage... :/

Translators Mic now cut out and hissing... no clue what's being said. :/

Stated: follow framework of Bill C-60.

Any code that allows customers freedom of choice is welcome and any code that empowers them also benefits us, unless we tell you it costs us too much to implement. heh

No use.. translator sucks big time....

They do not agree with PIAC.... translator stuttering too much to make out the rest.. (sigh) I should have listened in French.

Videotron offers apps to it's users to monitor all usage. They will allow the code/app to be downloaded and shared for other to use. But it has limitations... too much stuttering by translator to make it out... unbelievable :/

Was short. Q&A time now.

They switched translators. I think she gave up... (I hope). Was likely listening to nails across a blackboard.

Commissioner Poirier:
In regards to C-60 and the new code:
If you follow new standards is there a problem?

Tron: It can cause us problems/costs and interfere with our other projects to follow a new code.

20K people grabbed their free app to monitor their usage (almost real time).

Commissioner Poirier:
Wants to know about real time notifications

Tron: We have this, but not in full compliance with your code. We wants tools to help the consumer but, the costs is very high to implement this to tell people when they hit 50%, 75% or 100% of their usage.

This is why we instead went with the app that is free. They can do it themselves. Less expensive. Plus it's almost in real time.

Notification can be done in a different way (via their app).

So summery:
Bill shock can be prevented by the customer themselves with the app instead of pushed notifications which will cost us money to implement.

Commissioner Poirier:
How many complaints are you getting? Volume of people going over their cap?

Tron: We don't have the figures. we... I think the translator is messing up... didn't make sense at all... :/

For all the steps involved in notifications, it will cost millions. Our platforms at this time can not accommodate all the info/notices you want. We are limited to pushing notifications at two percentage levels 1) When you reach the cap 2) unstated.

Thus why we went the app direction.

I think Tron stated the app is for Data only because people don't get bill-shock via SMS's and phone or roaming on phone. Sheez.

So in other words, only 20K people out of about 1/2-million have the app and it's for data only. Sounds very, very weak and like BS. They just don't want to spend the money to implement a code or notify people.

No notification = better profit.

Commissioner Poirier:
On the topic of a summary (print-out) of all services and costs before the contract is signed.

Videotron says: a print-out summary of all services and costs should not be used by people to compare contracts between providers. Nor do they want to include everything the commission wants in that summary.

Commissioner Poirier:
On topic of Contract changes.

TRON:
Customer can cancel the contract if not in agreement with contract changes, as per Quebec law. (should be noted, PIAC, Bell, Rogers, Telus and the CWTA are against this. Want to keep the customer locked in after a "material change" in service).

Tron Stopped 1 and 2 year contracts because Quebec law doesn't lock them in (as bad). People pay off the subsidy and go if they want to leave after 2 years in a 3 year contract. Per the formula in the Quebec law.

95% of Tron customers on 3-yr contract.

Commissioner Poirier:
On device prices:
She says if I buy your phone outright it's 499$. With a contract it's 399$. So I can buy your service and contract, cancel and go elsewhere?

Tron:
Yeah you could, if you find a provider on the same spectrum.

Commissioner Poirier:
Locked versus unlocked

Tron prefers locked to maintain customer base and benefits.

Tron does not offer a service to unlock phones.

Hunh... so if someone does leave them, they have to go black-market to unlock their phone in Quebec w/ Videotron.

Tron said it will take some time to come out with, or think of a service to unlock devices. Effort is required (employee training etc).

Tron says they agree with the commission for unlocking, but not with notifications.

Commissioner Poirier:
After the contract term comes to an end, how much does the customer bill drop by? Or what discount do they get?

Tron: We don't know. Haven't been operating for 3 years yet. We have no answer.

In about 6 months people will be in this situation...

Commissioner Poirier:
How long will it take for the industry to adapt to our new code?

Tron: We don't know. 18-months for us.

CRTC CHAIR:
you have 240 complaints at the CCTS. How many are wireless?

Tron: half (120)

CRTC CHAIR:
What are the nature of the complaints?

Tron: Usage is the main complaint, termination charge. Breakage of devices

CRTC CHAIR:
But your online tool (app) takes care of usage?

Tron: Yeah but this is a small number of complaints.

...CRTC Chair just made the case for notification and not their app, I think.

CRTC CHAIR:
On personalized Summaries for people to be informed prior to signing contract

Tron:
Don't have. Too expensive, Much development needed. skirting the issue.
If we produce a contract before a contract is signed, it will cost us time and money to develop.

CRTC Chair:
How much?

Tron: No clue. We will file it.

My thoughts,

They are scared of a tougher code. Don't want customers informed and to be able to better shop around while informed. Refusing to unlock = screwing the customer to them only. Don't want people informed via notification cuz w/o it generates money.

Branded-firmware was not spoken about...



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to hm

Has anyone seen yesterday's pm vidoe I can't seem to find it on the site.

Though it might ff cache, but I can't find anything with Chrome either.



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

They still show up on Google Maps, for one thing.

None show on "their" google map of stores in that region:
»www.windmobile.ca/en/pages/store···age.aspx

Maybe they did pull out? No clue.

On their website (just for the heck of it)
»faqs.windmobile.ca/customer/port···ustomer-

I do not live within WIND network coverage. Can I still be a WIND customer?
Last Updated: Nov 09, 2011 12:38PM EST
Yes, you can. If you’re shopping online, be advised that we only ship to British Columbia, Alberta and Ontario.


They exclude shipping devices to Quebec.

Also,

»faqs.windmobile.ca/customer/port···-quebec-

Is WIND available in Quebec?
Last Updated: Jan 23, 2013 12:17PM EST
Your WIND mobile phone will work in Quebec, but at this time we do not have WIND stores in the province of Quebec.


Hmm...


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

Has anyone seen yesterday's pm vidoe I can't seem to find it on the site.

Will likely be up on Monday...
Check their twitter feed for any info?

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm

said by hm :

said by MaynardKrebs:

Hopefully some people can post anything interesting which pops up during the day.

Posted the relevent Q&A session for you. Their speech pasrt is still being held back. May show whenever you get back, or it's been deleted. No clue

Now you owe me one

Microbrew. pls & ty.

I'm partial to Creemore original or Amsterdam Blonde (who wouldn't be - there's got to be some way of making an emoticon showing a guy drooling)


nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to hm

You know what's awesome? Listening to these carriers piss and moan about costs and all sorts of other crap that basically makes it seem like they'll lose the shirt off their backs if there are any changes made to their current business model...

All the while, released $400+ million profit margins for a quarter.

I truly hope the CRTC are smart enough to see through all of this B.S.
--
Weeeeeee



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to hm

They show two of them in this search:

»maps.google.ca/maps?q=wind+mobil···bec&z=14
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



hm

@videotron.ca

said by Guspaz:

They show two of them in this search:

»maps.google.ca/maps?q=wind+mobil···bec&z=14

I see that...


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

Has anyone seen yesterday's pm vidoe I can't seem to find it on the site.

Feb 14th PM (part 2) is up now, just checked.

Guess Feb 15 will likely be Monday, unless they work Saturdays and Sundays (laff).


hm

@videotron.ca

Feb 15th:
Nova Scotia changes regulations on cellphone contracts and cancellations
»www.montrealgazette.com/technolo···ory.html

Under the changes to the Consumer Protection Act, cellphone contracts can be cancelled at any time and the government says mobile phone users could pay as little as $50 to do so.

Consumers will still be on the hook for buying out equipment if they cancel their contacts early, however.

The government says cellphone companies will also be prevented from changing major parts of a contract including services, costs, fees or locations where the phone can be used without permission from a customer.

The changes will only affect cellphone contracts that go into effect May 1.


If PIAC, Bell, Rogers and Telus get their way, no one in Nova Scotia will have any Consumer Protection rights.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by hm :

Feb 15th:
Nova Scotia changes regulations on cellphone contracts and cancellations
»www.montrealgazette.com/technolo···ory.html

It's no wonder the incumbents were chomping at the bit for a National Code of Conduct at this time....... Nova Scotia has been working on this for some time - like since this time last year
»www.thetelegram.com/Canada---Wor···e-bill/1


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to hm

That first part is the same as what we have in Quebec and in the CWTA proposal in front of the CRTC (about the ETFs). The second part, well, neither Quebec nor CWTA proposal involves completely blocking contract changes entirely, they just ensure sufficient notice is given.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to hm

My question which i wonder if has been asked yet is ,a Subsidized phone with a subsidy of 500 dollars over 36 months, vs one with a subsidy of 650 or 700 etc.. over the same period Has the difference in Said Subsidy been addressed? ie one person with 15 dollars, credit vs 20 dollar per month yet Receiving the Exact same contract?

does anyone understand what i am trying to say?
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.



nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed

said by morisato:

My question which i wonder if has been asked yet is ,a Subsidized phone with a subsidy of 500 dollars over 36 months, vs one with a subsidy of 650 or 700 etc.. over the same period Has the difference in Said Subsidy been addressed? ie one person with 15 dollars, credit vs 20 dollar per month yet Receiving the Exact same contract?

does anyone understand what i am trying to say?

Currently, plans are the same regardless of subsidy amount. I get what you're saying though. If John signs a contract on a $400 phone and Jill signs a contact on a $600 phone, both being subsidized, is there a difference in their plan/contract amount? The answer currently is, no.

Edit: Which is entirely ridiculous.

--
Weeeeeee


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to hm

I loved JF's comments... the incumbents will answer your questions, but they won't volunteer anything...

So true...



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

The second part, well, neither Quebec nor CWTA proposal involves completely blocking contract changes entirely, they just ensure sufficient notice is given.

What is significant is, when there is a change to a contract with a minimum of 30-days notice, the Quebec consumer has the right to opt-out and cancel the contract.

The CWTA, Telus, Bell and Rogers do not want people to be able to leave the contract when they change anything. Telus is on record as saying they want the right to change the contract w/o recourse.

Let us look at what is going on in the Telus forum right now.

1. »Cap Reduction CCTS complainants unite!

2. »CRCT complaint about Telus reply

Someone in Telus land can correct me if I'm wrong here: I believe Telus lured people into a contract with free laptops or something, then unilaterally changed the service from 500-gigs to 250-gigs and telling their beloved customers they are still locked in and can't do anything about it.

This is what the CWTA, Telus, Bell and Rogers want.

Do you think that is right?

In Quebec that would cause a contract cancellation, if the customer *chooses* to do so. Or it would end up i another Class Action (more on Class Action below).

Now to circumvent the CCTS, Telus watered down their terms and conditions to mention nothing about usage. The CCTS rules on terms and condition. So Telus turned around and told their customers, well we changed nothing in the terms and conditions so the CCTS can't do anything for you. Some guy called the CCTS and they seemed to more or less agree.

That sound right to you?

There is a very big and significant difference to what Telus, Bell, Rogers and the CWTA wants, and what goes on in Quebec.

In regards to the Class Action. Again, Bell, Telus, Rogers and the CWTA are on record for taking your provincial Consumer Protection rights away in favour of a national federal code to be administered by the CCTS. They publicly stated this will stop class actions against us when we lock people in and then change contracts terms on them.

Is that fucked up or what?

Not only do they want to remove your consumer rights, they want you right to go to court removed as well.

Very, very big differences in what they want versus what we have Guspaz. And this code will affect more than just Cell.

And PIAC is support all this. They are truly a piece of work.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to hm

Huh, when I read the proposed regulations the CRTC came up with based on CWTA's stuff, it was not as you described, it enabled cancelling the contract.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



hm

@videotron.ca

Not what I saw based on what Bell, Rogers, and Telus stated.

You might want to review the parts they had had to say about contract changes and class actions.



hm

@videotron.ca

BTW, does anyone know of an app to rip the videos from the cpac site? before they are taken offline?



hm

@videotron.ca

BTW, Did anyone else catch the part where the CCTS stated they want the ability to do "class action" type complaints?

They are really setting the stage to do away with any and all consumer protection laws, and to stop court action and class actions against the big telco's.



hm

@videotron.ca

downloadCCTS_01.docx.zip 128,217 bytes
Whats a contract??? We don't know.
I was looking over the Telus presentation and the CCTS presentation.

The CCTS states, "they don't know what a contract is".

Telus states a contract is only the terms and conditions.

So for example, let's say you buy a 10-meg service with 5-gigs per month.

Telus's terms of service doesn't state/define how much usage you will get (nor the speed for that matter).

So when you see a big flashy ad on TV, billboard, bus, or newspaper touting the massive usage and speed for a 3 year contract, they don't want the ad to be part of the contract, just the terms and conditions which doesn't state speed or usage.

Let us make an analogy here:

1. You lease a car
2. It says you are allowed 30,000 KM/year on that 3 year lease.
3. Ford send you a notice that now you can only use 10,000K/year
4. Ford states it doesn't matter what they advertised and sold to you, the terms and conditions don't specify what you will have.
5. So now you are on the hook for more money
6. Ford states you can not break the contract
7. CCTS pretends they don't know what the contract is or was. Or what even defines the contract.

Something seem funny to you? It should. Telus and all the ISP's and wireless carriers are now trying to force the CRTC and the CCTS to change the definition of a contract.

In addition to this new definition that is only applicable to telecom contracts (and in their own world), they have to do away with provincial contractual laws and provincial Consumer Protections in order to fit and apply their new definition of a contract as law in all of Canada.

PIAC is supporting this.
Bell is supporting this.
Rogers is supporting this.
Telus is supporting this.
CWTA is supporting this.
CCTS is playing dumb.
And maybe others...

Quebec did good by walking away from them. And now we know why they did walk away. Manitoba and Nova Scotia should be doing similar.

CCTS Submission to the CRTC asking what a contract is:

Definitions
Contract What exactly is the contract?

Is it the Terms of Service? Does it include any documentation provided to the customer by the WSP related to their subscription? Does it include relevant WSP policies? This is particularly important in light of the number of Code provisions that reference the term, particularly the sections (such as D2) that relate to the right of WSPs to make changes to the “contracts” and the rights of consumers when this occurs.


BTW, if we review the Telus forum, they are trying to pull this on their customers right now.

Can anyone say, "Abuse"?

LastDon

join:2002-08-13
reply to hm

Rick Mercer on Telus

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY7Sz3ST8TI


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

Mercer is extremely funny, but uses that comedy to make a good point.



Michael9009

join:2006-07-28
Toronto, ON
reply to LastDon

said by LastDon:

Rick Mercer on Telus

Simply superb and to the point!


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to LastDon

said by LastDon:

Rick Mercer on Telus

Yeah, saw it when they stated that.

Good on Mercer.

And then you have dummies of open media practically praising them and calling the the best out of all the telco's and "less evil" the other day.

Shows what a telco gains by meeting with them, as what happened.

Telus, during the hearings, was the worse out of the whole lot of them (next to PIAC).

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

Rofl, I would love to buy myself a copy of that plaque.. i might have to make some calls p:)
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to hm

Go easy on OpenMedia.. They had no idea what Telus was going to say..
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP



hm

@videotron.ca

said by resa1983:

Go easy on OpenMedia.. They had no idea what Telus was going to say..

They sat there and listened to it. Then regurgitated it to the web under their banner w/o even knowing what it was they were saying, or what telus said for that matter. They didn't bother nor want to know. Just praise for telus for no reason.

arahman56

join:2011-08-11
Etobicoke, ON
reply to icemasta

It's already proven that the N4 is being sold at a discount in the Play Store. Outside Play, it's the same $550 anywhere else.