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resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to hm

Re: The New Wireless Code Hearings. Live Stream @ 9-am

OH this is hilarious.

Rogers has 11,000 different grandfathered plans.

Note that there can be hundreds or thousands on each grandfathered plan.

Blais picking up on 11k grandfathered plans @ Rogers, that people don't want to switch from. Maybe theres a reason: New plans suck! #wcoc
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP



hm

@videotron.ca

LOL Resa, I chuckled when I heard that.

Seems most of their business is based on retentions and grandfathered plans because their rates suck so bad.



indeedy

@videotron.ca
reply to elwoodblues

Yeah CCTS already ruled against the 30-day thing about a year ago. And this is one of the problems with the CCTS. They *do not* put all their rulings out in the clear as they happen for all to see and be aware of. They hide rulings in a yearly report, those who bother reading the tiny detail they put out caught on to it. Otherwise people don't know.

This is what happens when the industry controls the arena (the CCTS).

---
Commissioner Molnar just rips Rogers bullshit so elegantly, and calls them out on it nicely. Aside from the CRTC chair, she is the one most on the ball. She is good.


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to hm

Let me qualify my previous comment a bit.

The new plans suck for individuals who have different needs.

For example, I was on the old old City Fido 12 yrs ago (prior to Rogers purchasing it) for $45/month, unlimited voice & text in Toronto.

These days, that'd be about $25-40/month, available from any new entrant, or incumbents bargain brand.

However, that was huge back then, as NO ONE was offering unlimited plans.

Of course, Rogers bought them up, and changed City Fido to have voice limits, and then increased the price of the grandfathered City Fido several times.

While fine for others, I stayed on the grandfathered City Fido until 1 1/2 yrs ago, as there really wasn't anyone else offering the same kind of deal - even with Rogers increasing grandfathered CityFido's price.

I'm now on Wind, which gives me the same plan I had before, with data, for $25/month.

Incumbents don't always want to create plans to suit a ton of people, so the new entrants are. The only thing holding them back are service areas so far.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to resa1983

Because everyone has a different deal. They finally got smart and put expiration dates on any deals. If I hadn't gotten an Iphone still be on a plane from 7yrs ago.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

While fine for others, I stayed on the grandfathered City Fido until 1 1/2 yrs ago, as there really wasn't anyone else offering the same kind of deal - even with Rogers increasing grandfathered CityFido's price.

I'm now on Wind, which gives me the same plan I had before, with data, for $25/month.

1.5 years ago, and long before then, CityFido was available for less than the $45 they charged 12 years ago. CityFido doesn't exist anymore, though, it was replaced with a $40 unlimited talk/text plan that doesn't have the CityFido zone restrictions.

Personally, I'm grandfathered on a $30/mth CityFido 2000 minute plan.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to hm

Anyone get a recording of today's events? I was only able to catch the first hour or so. I will provide FTP space if required.


LastDon

join:2002-08-13
reply to hm

I wonder why rogers and telus don't like the 50$ cap on data charges if the user goes over

thats where they probably get a lot of their money!



andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
reply to mlerner

said by mlerner:

Anyone get a recording of today's events? I was only able to catch the first hour or so. I will provide FTP space if required.

I dont as I only heard a bit of rogers before I shut it off in disgust. Full vid will be on cpac website tomorrow like yesterday is available now


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5

said by andyb:

said by mlerner:

Anyone get a recording of today's events? I was only able to catch the first hour or so. I will provide FTP space if required.

I dont as I only heard a bit of rogers before I shut it off in disgust. Full vid will be on cpac website tomorrow like yesterday is available now

Oh thanks. I forgot CPAC was recording. I'll wait till tommorow then.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm

The incumbents are so full-o-shite it isn't funny.

Each 'plan' - whether an "as advertised" plan or a custom 'plan' with extras thrown in at a different price than the advertised plan, is unique. Maybe there are hundreds of thousands of people on the 'as advertised' plan, and maybe just a few on some custom plan. Nevertheless, each of these plans can be represented by a plan-id primary key (in relational db speak).

So too can each 'contract' signed/agreed to by a customer.

JF tweeted:
"Jean-François Mezei @jfmezei
#CRTC Wow ! Carriers admit that they don't have systems to pull out the exact contract signed by customers. They are working on it."

All an carrier needs to do it to record the agreement reference id as a long int (since they have billions of different contracts) and store any signature page as a scanned "blob", and associate that with the customer record through time. If they can't do that then they are utter & complete morons.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

»consultation.crtc.gc.ca/comment/···ent-1181

I submitted comments to the crtc last week at the link above

Here's what I said about the applicability of consumer protection legislation:

a) At all times the Wireless Code MUST adopt the most stringent provincial law or regulation which favours the consumer in ANY province/territory. Said adoption must be both automatic, and it must be non-retrograde & irrevocable (ie. never lessening consumer rights or protections even if underlying legislation reverts to less consumer protection).

b) Should any province or territory adopt laws or regulations which are more consumer-friendly than is currently the case, the Carriers MUST abide by that more stringent law or regulation for all consumers in all provinces, irrespective of the province of residence of the consumer or the jurisdiction in which the Carrier is headquartered or operates.

For greater certainty the following examples will clarify how this rule is intended to operate:

Example A - If on January 30, 2013 Ontario bans 3-year contracts and sets the maximum contract term at 2 years, then all Carriers must immediately cease requiring 3-year contracts and all new contracts entered into in all provinces/territories must have a term on not greater than 2-years. Further, if on May 1, 2013 Nova Scotia bans contracts altogether, then henceforth the Carriers shall offer ONLY month-to-month at its standard service offering in all jurisdictions [see below for exceptions].

c) However, in the examples above, no existing contract shall be abrogated, ie. if PEI or Ontario or Nova Scotia resident consumer entered into a 3-year contract on December 31, 2012 , said contract would run to its full term notwithstanding the events in Ontario and Nova Scotia on the aforementioned dates.

Example B - If British Columbia bans the tied selling of handsets to cellular phone service contracts, ie. get a phone for $99 with a 3-year term, then all Carriers must immediately cease tied sales of handsets in all jurisdictions.

----------

The Carriers want one set of rules to follow, which is fine, and they have, by this process said that they volunteer and agree to have one set of rules.

So let's give them one set of rules, and the rules SHOULD be those which offer the consumer the most protection from all jurisdictions. It simplifies their systems programming, it simplifies their contracts to one standard (even though it changes from time-to-time) it will be uniform in all jurisdictions, and it simplifies their CSR training - whether the CSR is in Moncton or Mumbai - they learn only one set of rules.

It's a big money saver for the carriers to be held to the most strict set of regulations.


nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to hm

I was only able to catch the last hour or so. The "Doctor" who went on about per usage billing was so full of crap it was unbelievable.

The fact that a portion of his argument was "upgrading the networks is expensive" when we're dealing with multi-billion dollar companies who extort such ridiculous amounts of money from it's consumers per year, was truly hilarious.

Same B.S. arguments the ISP's give...oh...interesting they're also carriers
--
Weeeeeee



hm

@videotron.ca

I missed that pro-ubb part. Will have to watch it tomorrow (if I find the time).

Up tomorrow for Day 3 will be:

-Media Access Canada on behalf of Access 2020 Group of Accessibility Stakeholders

I have no clue who these people are

-DiversityCanada Foundation

Again, no clue who these people are.

-Bragg Communications Inc., carrying on business as Eastlink

I expect them to tow the CWTA/Rogers/PIAC party line.

-Mobilicity

This should be an interesting one.

-Consumers Council of Canada

No clue who these people are



nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
kudos:2

I'm hoping they continue to leave up the streams so I have a chance to go over the ones I've missed. I work midnights so by the time I wake up every day, I'm catching the last 1-2 hours of the hearings.
--
Weeeeeee

Expand your moderator at work

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm

Re: The New Wireless Code Hearings. Live Stream @ 9-am

Media Access et. al. make a good point about support for people with disabilities.
MANY people with disabilities retain their older devices for years longer than many other consumers for several reasons:
a) learning a new interface is extremely difficult for non-sighted persons
b) cost play a large factor - when you're blind your income is limited so you aren't replacing a $600 device every other year

Most front-line store staff don't have a cue on how to assist persons with disabilities. Even Apple stores tend to have only one or two people how have anything more than a passing understanding on their own assistive technologies and how people with disabilities can effectively use them.

I know a number of blind individuals who have not been able to get satisfactory assistance from staff at telco stores.

Other issues arising from this line of discussion also must take into account legal obligations in the AODA - Access for Ontarians With Disabilities, or other similar provincial legislation. In the USA there is the ADA - Americans with Disabilities Act.....which is the driver for all 'downstream' legislation and regulation.

The discussion @ the moment about the woman who 'self-identified' her disability falls directly under things like the AODA, consumer protection legislation & misrepresentation by the carrier.



hm

@videotron.ca

Yes.

I asked JF to bring up an issue related to this, and the continued functionality of phones. It doesn't even need to be older as was discussed here. I have seen 3 month old phones go obsolete for one reason or another.

Tomorrow should be a HOT one to watch in regards to this.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm

The whole issue of plan pricing in
a) BYOD scenarios
vs.
b) non-BYOD scenarios
also needs to be addressed.

BYOD plan costs must be at least (phone subsidy+ interest + admin. overhead) less each month than the price of a non-BYOD plan cost.



mazhurg
Premium
join:2004-05-02
Brighton, ON
Reviews:
·MTS

said by MaynardKrebs:

The whole issue of plan pricing in
a) BYOD scenarios
vs.
b) non-BYOD scenarios
also needs to be addressed.

BYOD plan costs must be at least (phone subsidy+ interest + admin. overhead) less each month than the price of a non-BYOD plan cost.

But that would severely hamper the bottom line; think of the profit lost! It would require to further increase the non-BYOD scenarios just to break even.



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to hm

Day 3. Live Stream

Commissioner Molnar has asked the same question to almost everyone, and the question tends to stump everyone.

Paraphrase: "How can we measure that the code is working"?

Most everyone replies with: By the number of complaints.

Going by memory the past couple of days, either she (Ms. Molnar) or the CRTC chair said this is not a good way.

So, who here has an idea on how else they can measure the usefulness of the new code?



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to MaynardKrebs

Yesterday Rogers stated that w/o a phone subsidy your plan price only drops 5-10$. I checked my wifes Rogers bill (with her permission, of course) and after the contract period it dropped by 24$. Not 5 or 10. Rogers lied again.
===

Hm, Diversity Canada is bringing up info on some Class Action which seems to be against Bell Canada.

She is arguing Prov laws need to be maintained, and is stating (paraphrase) that it's too late for them to run to the CRTC after all this time to only have fed laws apply now that laws are starting to protect people from their vulture like preying on people.

Damn. I like here. I'd buy her a glass of wine.

She provided proof that Bell is screwing people (affidavit from a class action) about Bell giving people two expiry dates on pre-paid balances.

I wasn't aware of this class-action.

BONUS POINT: ...And she is wearing a Bell Canada T-shirt while saying all this!

She rox!


KC7

join:2006-11-08
Ottawa, ON

Thanks for the blow by blow.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm

said by hm :

Yesterday Rogers stated that w/o a phone subsidy your plan price only drops 5-10$. I checked my wifes Rogers bill (with her permission, of course) and after the contract period it dropped by 24$. Not 5 or 10. Rogers lied again.

$24 per month or per ANNUM?
Which phone did she have?

My issue with BYOD plans is that the prices need to be posted so that consumers can make a decision as to whether it makes most sense for them to either buy the phone outright and do BYOD plans, or to go with the subsidized pricing plans.

The other reason why pricing both ways needs to be priced is so the carriers can't under-value the subsidy, thus pushing the price of the BYOD plans up. I have some easy to implement ideas on how this can be done so that there is transparency, and fairness to both consumers & carriers.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm

Re: The New Wireless Code Hearings. Live Stream @ 9-am

Natalie MacDonald (Eastlink) was just testifying about roaming & real-time costing availability. The problem I see with her testimony is that she's a VP Regulatory Affairs (ie. a lawyer) talking to a bunch of CRTC commissioners (mostly lawyers) - neither of which know much about the technical matters involved in actually making real-time or near-time data available to consumers. As such I'm not optimistic that this matter will ever be properly addressed from a regulatory (code of conduct) basis.

Name & shame is actually a good idea.
That's what sites like epinions.com sort of do.

I can't see why the CRTC commissioner (Stephen Simpson) didn't phrase the question "Do you as a consumer of goods & services yourself, for all types of products, see the value of others opinions & publicity of customer service issues people have with supplies? If so, why do you oppose the suggestion here?"


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm

The acquisition of a new phone should NOT constitute a new (or renewal) contract. The phone should be financed separately from the cellular services provided.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm

They should stop allowing the use of the word SUBSIDY - the correct expression should be CONSUMER FINANCING


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm

Anyone got a link to the Eastlink document?


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm

Here's a link to Eastlink's upcoming cellular service
»www.eastlink.ca/wireless.aspx


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to hm

I like these Eastlink people and their company approach.