 TA63ST215WPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
 ·TekSavvy DSL
 ·Cogeco Cable
| reply to TheSMJ
Re: Sanding/refinishing oak floor a DIY job? I did my parents floor while in my teens using a drum sander.
I've always been handy with wood though.
It went surprisingly smooth.
The Varathane we used was miles better than whatever was put on the floors when the house was built. It still looks good 20+ years and a Golden Retriever later.
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The talented hawk speaks French. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to Ken
said by Ken:I think there is some confusion here on using an orbital sander to do the entire job. I think your post is a great place to begin a real discussion of what is involved. I want to start by listing the different sanders which can be used for floors and their abilities and liabilities.
1) Professional Edging Sander -- this is not an orbital sander, it is a disc sander. Disc sanders in general are only useful for rough work. One of the main problems is that no matter which direction you go with it you cannot control it to the extent that you can sand with the grain. As this sander is used with course grits of sandpaper it can gouge and create damage in inexperienced hands. Even in professional hands, there will be some gouging and cross grain scratches visible under close examination.
2) Drum Sander -- Main tool of the "professional" flooring installer / re-finisher. Main tool for one reason -- it removes a lot of wood very fast. Drum sanders gouge very easily and create an uneven surface even in professional hands. They are great for evening out a surface but are not a finishing tool and should not be considered as one. Must only be used with the grain. It is surprising how much wood is removed in a short period of time with this tool. It is equally surprising how few times a floor can be re-finished when sanded by this tool due to the massive amount of wood removed during sanding.
3) Belt Sander -- I'm not sure if there are any large, floor type of belt sanders around but they would be more controllable than a drum sander if there are any. Still fairly aggressive and must be used only with the grain.
4) Orbital Sander -- The Square-Buff sander posted by another member is an orbital sander. Orbital sanders can have either round or square pads. The sanding pad moves in a small, orbital motion. Even on the large floor sanders, this orbital motion is only about 3/8" in diameter. While this sander is quite un-aggressive, it is also quite slow to strip a floor down to bare wood with. On the other hand, there is no gouging and if you run this machine over a floor sanded by a "professional" using a traditional drum and edging sander, you will discover just how uneven they left your floor. This is a great tool to use for screening a finished floor prior to adding another coat of finish. You can use sanding screen with it (available in many grits -- same type of screen used for drywall sanding).
5) Random Orbital Sander -- This is the type of sander most of us have now in our small tools drawer. It is also one of the best floor sanders for the DYI floor re-finisher. While I'm not sure if the three and four pad sanders which Ken  posted pics of are of this type, there is one I can vouch for. It is the Varathane ezV sander. This sander has three 8"disks with two rotating in one direction and one in the other. These disks are mounted on a larger rotating disk which rotates slowly. The result of the dual rotation motions is a random orbit. This type of sander is extremely forgiving and will not scratch or gouge the floor. At the same time, it is more aggressive than the orbital sander. The ezV is also quiet and has a very good dust pickup system resulting is a pleasant experience for the operator and only minor dust in the house.
Choosing the right tool for the job is very important. Knowing it's strengths and weaknesses even more so. This post doesn't really address the needs of the OP but it seemed a good time to discuss the various options available for use when refinishing a wood floor. |
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 AMDUSERPremium
join:2003-05-28
Earth
kudos:1 | reply to Ken
I've seen that at Home Depot.. those do create quite a bit of sawdust. [I know from helping someone refinsh their living room floor.] |
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TheSMJ
join:2009-08-19
Farmington, MI | reply to TheSMJ
Finally got some pics up of what I'm talking about.
In front of both the master bathroom (first pic) and entrance to the bedroom (second pic) you can see how the wood is much darker than the area to the immediate left/right of the doorway. The discoloration is much darker than how it looks in the pics, but you can still get the idea of what I'm talking about. It looks as though the stain was worn off and the wood was dirtied from lots of foot traffic.
I also noticed some gaps a little wider than the thickness of a dime between a couple of the boards as well, but they'll be covered by a bed so I'm not too worried about it.
Will this require refinishing, or can all of this be cleaned off somehow?
There are also small holes in the floor from where the carpet tack strips were nailed in, and a couple of ~1/4" holes drilled by a cable TV installer when he ran the coax up from the family room ceiling below (I'm guessing because doing a good job and going through the walls would have taken longer than 2 minutes). I'd like to think I could use wood putty to fill the holes, but I doubt they'd look right after staining. I'm not that worried about the holes, but if there was a way I could fill them in without replacing the boards I'd love to hear it. |
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 LazManPremium
join:2003-03-26
canada | Could fill the 1/4" holes with hard-wood dowel - I think that much putty would be far too obvious, myself.
The tack-strips, either putty, or just leave them. I'd be tempted to do the later... Trying to fill and match, could easily make them MORE visible, rather then less.
As for the discolouration - I'm going to say (and I'm a phone guy by trade, not a flooring guy, so take it with the appropriate grain of salt) - that the dirt and staining is pretty ground into the finish, and sanding/refinishing is the way to go. The boards look to be in good shape, it's just the finish that's wore out.
Try a good cleaner (murphy's oil soap) and some elbow grease, but if that doesn't do it, you're probably looking at a strip and re-finish. |
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| reply to TheSMJ
These floors are not *that* bad. Personally, I'd just do it with the sanders I have. I'd fill the holes with wood fillers.
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Wacky Races 2012! |
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Reviews:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to TheSMJ
Whether it's a DIY job or not depends on the state of the floor, the area and the amount of time you have.
If the floors are old and uneven you'll have to do multiple passes, rental tools are totally underpowered.
It's a messy job too. There *will* be sawdust everywhere unless you seal the room and create negative pressure.
Then there is the smell. You won't be able to live in your house for 1 week, assuming you manage to coat all the surface in 1 day and do the buffing passes in 1 day, then re-coat the same day.
Yes there is water-based polyurethane that doesn't smell so bad, but it doesn't last nearly as long, so unless you want to repeat the job in 5 years stick with oil-based.
I've done hardwood floors in my house as DIY. After doing 2 rooms (that's how much I could sand in 1 day due to uneven floors) I decided that between the multiple rentals it was easier to just hire a company. The results weren't as good as mine, but they were done in 1 week. They used much more powerful tools which were cleaning the floor in 1-2 quick passes vs 5-6 for the rental tool. But again, my floors were uneven, on even floors you may have better luck... |
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| said by cowboyro:Then there is the smell. You won't be able to live in your house for 1 week, assuming you manage to coat all the surface in 1 day and do the buffing passes in 1 day, then re-coat the same day.
If you only do rooms you can just open the windows, close the door, and optionally, seal it with some tape, and the smell shouldn't be a big deal. Been there, done that.
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Wacky Races 2012! |
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garys_2kPremium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI | reply to TheSMJ
All in all it sounds like tons of fun!  |
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 GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
 ·Dish Network
| reply to aurgathor
said by aurgathor:said by cowboyro:Then there is the smell. You won't be able to live in your house for 1 week, assuming you manage to coat all the surface in 1 day and do the buffing passes in 1 day, then re-coat the same day.
If you only do rooms you can just open the windows, close the door, and optionally, seal it with some tape, and the smell shouldn't be a big deal. Been there, done that. Use water based poly, e.g. Bona Traffic, and it has almost no smell and dries in a few hours.
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"You lie!" Talk about an understatement, Joe. |
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GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Dish Network
| reply to cowboyro
said by cowboyro:Yes there is water-based polyurethane that doesn't smell so bad, but it doesn't last nearly as long, so unless you want to repeat the job in 5 years stick with oil-based.
That's a load of crap. Bona Traffic is more durable than almost any other finish out there, including the non-water based.
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"You lie!" Talk about an understatement, Joe. |
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| Bona Traffic is apparently a 2 components poly with a hardener, so it's a little different from the more common one component polys, be it water or oil based.
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Wacky Races 2012! |
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GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Dish Network
| That's true, but it's a well known and very commonly used finish.
In our house that's all we used for the floors. Six years gone by and the floors look fabulous. Not even close to needing refinishing. It's about $110/gallon, but very well worth it. This is where I purchased the stuff: »floormechanics.com/manufacturers···mfg=Bona
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"You lie!" Talk about an understatement, Joe. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to TheSMJ
said by TheSMJ:In front of both the master bathroom (first pic) and entrance to the bedroom (second pic) you can see how the wood is much darker than the area to the immediate left/right of the doorway. The discoloration is much darker than how it looks in the pics, but you can still get the idea of what I'm talking about...
There are also small holes in the floor from where the carpet tack strips were nailed in, and a couple of ~1/4" holes drilled by a cable TV installer when he ran the coax up from the family room ceiling below (I'm guessing because doing a good job and going through the walls would have taken longer than 2 minutes). I'd like to think I could use wood putty to fill the holes, but I doubt they'd look right after staining. I'm not that worried about the holes, but if there was a way I could fill them in without replacing the boards I'd love to hear it.
You need to try to determine what finish is currently on the floor. My guess is either varnish or oil and wax. The darkening can probably be lightened or removed using wood bleach (oxalic acid). I use it on floor stains often. It may take several coats overnight or over days. finish up with a neutralizing rinse with baking soda. Personally I would not worry about the carpet strip holes. They are not noticeable once the room is furnished. To fix the drilled holes, you need to use plugs, do not use dowels. If you use a dowel, then there is end grain exposed. With a plug, the grain is the same as the floor.
»www.mcfeelys.com/product/FH-3203···ad-Plugs |
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TheSMJ
join:2009-08-19
Farmington, MI | How can I find out what finish was used on the floor?
I could try to ask the previous owner, but I doubt she would know/remember.
Should I try to use something like Murphy's Oil to try and clean it, or should I find out what type of finish the floor has first? |
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