dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
uniqs
30

Octavean
MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY

Octavean to signmeuptoo94

MVM

to signmeuptoo94

Re: Tablet Discussions

said by signmeuptoo94:

Sorry, but I disagree, which is my right. If we can't give feedback on the direction a forum is going, what good is the site. So your a moderator, does that mean I have to do what you ordain? I am making a reasonable assertion here, please don't use your position to prevent discussion on this. I think it is reasonable to want to have a special forum for a new trend. VOIP is PC releated, but we have a VOIP forum. Macintoshes are PCs of a sort, but we have an Apple forum. I feel like I am being bullied here.

With all due respect, I'll simply point out that dbmaven seems to be doing everything reasonable to give this subject and those of whom that wish to speak on it a voice. Starting this thread was a good idea IMO. I think people are more then welcome to express there thoughts and ideas on this subject here,...
said by dbmaven:

Computer: an electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations.

There's more computing power in my tablet than I had to write complex business applications on years ago. As each generation of processor advances, the capabilities of smaller and smaller devices grows.

Simple solution - if you don't want to discuss tablets - move on to the next thread. Nothing's forcing anyone to read, or join in the discussion - on tablets or other computing devices.

I wont dispute the above definition of a computer. However, I do believe that such a definition can still apply to devices that do not fit the traditional mindset of a PC for most people in this forum.

For example, when I was an Electrical Engineering student a graphing calculator was basically a requirement. Most students at that time in my college chose the Ti-82 but there were some different models about.

Anyway, the Ti-82 could link to other Ti-82 models and share data, you could write programs to run on it, it could display some surprisingly advanced graphics and naturally it could perform advanced mathematical / logical operations,.....

For all I know the Ti-82 may have more computational power then whatever they were using to get to the moon. I still don't think of it as a traditional computer and I don't think its what people had in mind when the "PC Hardware Discussion/Reviews" forum was formed.

But again I don't feel all that strongly about it either way,.....

If some new advancements were made in ARM tech I might be tempted to post it here but that would be more due to not knowing what the most appropriate place would be,...

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron

Premium Member

said by Octavean:

I still don't think of it as a traditional computer and I don't think its what people had in mind when the "PC Hardware Discussion/Reviews" forum was formed.

But again I don't feel all that strongly about it either way,.....

For what it's worth I don't think discussions about Android, Windows or OSX/iOS are appropriate for this forum, but most tablets have cpus, gpus, internal hardrives and RAM, and some have more power than others.

I think Spec comparisons and value conversations would (in my mind) be appropriate for this forum.

Octavean
MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY

1 edit

Octavean

MVM

Yeah, I hear you,...

I guess making the distinction between the different types of tables makes things clear for me but many people think "tablet" and automatically think "iPad".

These ARM devices are pervasive though,.....

My thinking is if you allow discussion of ARM based tablets here then there is little reason to exclude ARM based MP3 players or ARM based phones. They are very similar devises with the only real difference being the inclusion of a cellular subsystem (in the case of a phone and some tablets).

I just think it has the potential to be,.....messy.

I have an Asus Eee EP121 Intel Core i5 based PC Tablet running Windows 8 Pro RTM. There is no question in my mind that it is a PC. Having a touch screen and no physical keyboard doesn't change what it is.

I also have an Apple iPad 3rd gen, HP Touchpad (2x one running Android), Kindle Fire, iPod Touch, and iPhone but I don't really consider any of that suitable for this forum. If I could get Windows RT to run on one of my HP Touchpads I still wouldn't think it a suitable discussion for this forum but then I also wouldn't know where at DSLR it would be suitable,....

***edit***

BTW, I think some Ti calculators could run PDA programs which would have been a big deal to some geeks before the whole smart phone thing took off,.....

Ahhh,....remember Palm OS PDAs,......?

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron

Premium Member

said by Octavean:

Ahhh,....remember Palm OS PDAs,......?

I do, I wanted one pretty bad.

dbmaven
There's no shortage
Mod
join:1999-10-26
Sty in Sky

dbmaven to Octavean

Mod

to Octavean
First - you nailed my thoughts about leaving this available to express thoughts. Thank you.

Second - the problem with definitions - real or perceived - about a "subject area" is that it's like trying to drive a nail through Jell-O.
What we've seen over 20 years, and which we will continue to see, is the constant morphing of what hardware/devices people use to perform "computing".

A classic example - where do you put Microsoft's "Surface" ?
Do you exclude it because it's not a "traditional PC" ?
Do you include it because it can run x86 programs (Windows 8)?
Is it a tablet - or is it a laptop?
Do you discuss it in "Microsoft Help" because their name is on it?

It's all pretty vague - and it doesn't "fit" cleanly anywhere.

Those kinds of things are only going to increase in the future...
me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO
·Google Fiber

me1212 to Octavean

Member

to Octavean
said by Octavean:

***edit***

BTW, I think some Ti calculators could run PDA programs which would have been a big deal to some geeks before the whole smart phone thing took off,.....

You can put doom on some Ti calculators.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· 2JIRGHAo


On topic, I can see an ARM forum possibly being good.

Octavean
MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY

Octavean to dbmaven

MVM

to dbmaven
That's a great example. Perhaps you meant it as a rhetorical question but I'd be willing to venture an answer:

Q) Where do you put Microsoft's "Surface"

A) I would first attempt to be sure if you were referring to the Microsoft "Surface" running Windows RT on ARM or the Microsoft "Surface Pro" running Windows 8 Pro on x86 / x64. I think Microsoft added a degree of confusion when using the term "Surface" and a lot of people have difficulty making the distinction or perhaps don't even know its more then one device.

signmeuptoo94
Bless you Howie
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle

signmeuptoo94

Premium Member

Well, I think it would make deciding where a thread goes MUCH easier if all tablets had their own forum, with sub forums for the different OSs, much as VOIP has provider sub forums.

I am sorry, but I felt a little pressured from the comment. I really appreciate that this thread was created, and I thank the mod heartily for that, and with that said, I think giving a discreet forum, for the benefit of easier moderation work, might be a better justification for some rather than the perceived deleterious effect that tablets are having on PC sales.

I realize that my feelings can stir a reaction from some that I am asserting an "us versus them" thing, but in actuality, it's just that tablets are tablets, not really PCs, and that will become clearer as time progresses. For the enhancement of gaining more traffic to DSLR, a dedicated tablet head forum with sub forums for the different OSs might be a big bonus for the site owners, it could become the go-to place for tablets, much like this forum is one of the go-to places for home builders.

Octavean
MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY

Octavean

MVM

It would be much easier to calculate taxes if the government didn't insist on collecting them in the first place. The easiest solution isn't always the right one.

A PC tablet (x86 / x64) is just as much a PC as a desktop, laptop or All-In-One system IMO but I don't see anyone insisting that there be different forms for all of the above.....although some forums may very well do this.

It's easy to lump all tablets together but it lacks subtlety and possibly understanding of how different they can be.

signmeuptoo94
Bless you Howie
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle

signmeuptoo94

Premium Member

So? Look at PCs. There is a WIDE variety, from laptops of hundreds of forms, factory builds, home builds, but when I saw to someone "PC Computer" they instantly understand what I am saying. I think, despite any obfuscation, that saying "tablet" gives people a clear idea of what I am talking about as well. Sorry, I disagree, but disagreement doesn't mean the end of a good friendship, right? Anyways, I stand firm in that I feel we need a tablet forum and sub forums.

Octavean
MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY

Octavean

MVM

said by signmeuptoo94:

So? Look at PCs. There is a WIDE variety, from laptops of hundreds of forms, factory builds, home builds, but when I saw to someone "PC Computer" they instantly understand what I am saying. I think, despite any obfuscation, that saying "tablet" gives people a clear idea of what I am talking about as well. Sorry, I disagree, but disagreement doesn't mean the end of a good friendship, right? Anyways, I stand firm in that I feel we need a tablet forum and sub forums.

Point taken,...

I will say that in the past there have been companies that attempted to sell computers as something else. Selling the computer at a loss to gain revenue elsewhere. Upon discovery that the product was actually a computer some people buy up the low priced computers and use them as such destroying or damaging the business model the company had intended.

The original Xbox was essentially an Intel Pentium III based computer and some people used it as such. The original Apple TV could be made to run OS X,.....and so on,...

The point I am trying to make here is that just because something doesn't look like a traditional computer doesn't mean that it isn't. PC tablets (x86 / x64) are IMO traditional computers,....

My Asus Eee Slate EP121 Core i5 based PC tablet has more in common and is more akin to a laptops or even desktop (in components and design) then what most people consider to be a traditional tablet (ARM based). The form factor shouldn't fool people but apparently I does,....

Now if all tablets should have their own forum and or sub-forum then by extension the "PC Hardware Discussion/Reviews" forum should be subdivided as well. The reason I say this is because how then can you have netbooks, laptops, ultrabooks, desktops DIY, desktops OEM, mini desktops, All-In-Ones and so on swimming around in the same forum? If you divide and subdivide one forum why then should you not divided and subdivide the other forum?

signmeuptoo94
Bless you Howie
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle

signmeuptoo94

Premium Member

Well, I guess that with PCs, they ARE already divided by OS, which is what I am suggesting under a master forum for tablets. Dividing tablets or PCs by hardware is just too difficult to do I think, example: I just ordered my first factory build in 18 years, a Lenovo laptop, a G580. When I say G580, it can mean lots of things, Windows 7, or maybe 8; Intel Pentium, or maybe i3, or maybe i5; Blue, black, Brown, and on and on. Very confusing when I tried to get reviews of it.

Now OTOH, a system running Linux, if it isn't a hardware issue, we take it to all things *nix...

Yes, we can be defeatist and say "oh, it's too difficult, let's do nothing and just see what happens" but doing nothing isn't usually a good idea in business. Failing to act can be fatal for a business.

The thing is, perhaps a revamp: a General computer forum, with sub forums of "Windows or Linux Desktop" "Apple Desktop and laptop" "Windows Laptop" "Windows tablet" "Apple Tablet" "other OS tablet" and finally "micro and other computing".

My instincts are that if we just leave things as is, at some point things will devolve for PC discussions and people will drift away from this forum and, much as like what has happened to the overclocking forum, it will more or less die.

Or... We get with the program, and, well, ACT!

Octavean
MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY

Octavean

MVM

Well I'm not suggesting that nothing should be done but I am suggesting uniformity. If something is done, like to an equation for example, one should do the same thing to both sides of the equation.
said by signmeuptoo94:

My instincts are that if we just leave things as is, at some point things will devolve for PC discussions and people will drift away from this forum and, much as like what has happened to the overclocking forum, it will more or less die.

Or... We get with the program, and, well, ACT!

I hear what you are saying and I don't think anyone here wants to see that happen with respect to the PC forum fading way. However, action one way or the other doesn't guarantee that wont happen anyway. Interest in traditional computers seems to have stopped growing and seems to be dissipating. Segregating forums wont have any effect on this trend,...

signmeuptoo94
Bless you Howie
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle

signmeuptoo94

Premium Member

A forum title is a welcome mat to those on the googles searching for help, knowledge, and comraderei. My point isn't segregation, that has an unpleasant connotation, kinda word science. What I am saying is that a forum mission tailored to welcoming discussion is needed.

What is the title of this forum? Does that welcome tablet owners? In their google/bing/yahoo searches, will micro computer builders or tablet owner come here, is the forum mission clear and inviting?

But if the forums were layed out in response to today's trends, maybe they won't fizzle out. Segregation? What an awful spin on what I'm trying to suggest, no offense, but that is kinda word spin.

Octavean
MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY

Octavean

MVM

I hear what your saying and I don't totally disagree.

One of my favorite forums for my Asus Eee slate EP121 Core i5 based PC Tablet is over at tabletpcreview.com under:

Forum > Windows Tablet PCs > Asus > EP121 Slate

They also have:

Hardware
Accessories
Acer
Dell
Fujitsu
HP
Lenovo
Microsoft
Panasonic
Samsung
Sony
Toshiba
Other Brands

All with their own forums along with:

Apple / iOS forums and Android tablet forums

However, taking that approach here with Tablets only and not PCs seems unbalanced IMO. Under this new organizational logic PC hardware should be similarly sorted according to distinguishing characteristics / design,.....IMO.

signmeuptoo94
Bless you Howie
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle

signmeuptoo94

Premium Member

Well, I'm not the webadim, and understand what you are saying also. In time, computer hardware will be less prevalent, so this forum might not be as pertinent.
nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

nonymous (banned) to signmeuptoo94

Member

to signmeuptoo94
If i am using the micro computer like a pc i would post here. If more like a specific non pc use most likely the electronics forum. Os heck most of mine are dual boot so os has little to do with hardware questions.

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

aurgathor to Octavean

Member

to Octavean
said by Octavean:

.The point I am trying to make here is that just because something doesn't look like a traditional computer doesn't mean that it isn't. PC tablets (x86 / x64) are IMO traditional computers,....

I agree with computers, but disagree with "traditional". To me, that's a desktop, tower or SFF with a separate monitor, keyboard, and mouse. One can definitely make the Surface look more or less as a traditional PC by plugging in an external monitor and attaching a kb/mouse via a USB hub, but even then, traditional is a bit of a stretch.

Octavean
MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY

Octavean

MVM

I think I understand what you are getting at but the deciding factor there seems more based on the form factor.

For example, if you have two Chromebooks side by side with one using a Exynos 5 Dual Core Cortex-A15 SoC and the other using a Intel Celeron 847 1.1GHz,.....you might not be able to tell the difference by just looking but if you look closely enough you may see that the platforms are different. I just think its a mistake to only consider the form.

If you can shrink an old 486 DX processor based system down to the size of a watch that you can put on your wrist nothing has changed save for its size so why regard it differently,.....?

ARM is a completely different architecture,....and that is the meat of it IMO.
nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

nonymous (banned) to me1212

Member

to me1212
Fine kill your forum off. Hard drives, ssd, monitors etc. tend to be the same no matter the cpu or operating system. ARM is growing fast and honestly I rarely see much at a true cpu hardware level discussed beyond maybe speed features. I hope those on this forum can figure out an ARM at that level. Not asking for machine code or anything. Just same old stuff how fast, needed cooling etc. Apple was most likely divided off at first only because users could not do their own work due to apple being a closed system. Some tablets have just as much upgrade ability as the OPs prize new laptop. Oh wait he was bragging it is MS not linux as linux questions must be booting to the nix forum. Like an MS question might stay here and not get booted to the microsoft forum.
Hope maybe this forum dies sooner then later with these ideas. No way could a tablet be networked into a home server, printer etc. That concept would need a tablet forum a server forum and a general printer forum to keep things under control. You either adapt and grow or become irrelevant.
nonymous

nonymous (banned) to signmeuptoo94

Member

to signmeuptoo94
said by signmeuptoo94:

Well, I guess that with PCs, they ARE already divided by OS, which is what I am suggesting under a master forum for tablets. Dividing tablets or PCs by hardware is just too difficult to do I think, example: I just ordered my first factory build in 18 years, a Lenovo laptop, a G580. When I say G580, it can mean lots of things, Windows 7, or maybe 8; Intel Pentium, or maybe i3, or maybe i5; Blue, black, Brown, and on and on. Very confusing when I tried to get reviews of it.

Now OTOH, a system running Linux, if it isn't a hardware issue, we take it to all things *nix...

Yes, we can be defeatist and say "oh, it's too difficult, let's do nothing and just see what happens" but doing nothing isn't usually a good idea in business. Failing to act can be fatal for a business.

The thing is, perhaps a revamp: a General computer forum, with sub forums of "Windows or Linux Desktop" "Apple Desktop and laptop" "Windows Laptop" "Windows tablet" "Apple Tablet" "other OS tablet" and finally "micro and other computing".

My instincts are that if we just leave things as is, at some point things will devolve for PC discussions and people will drift away from this forum and, much as like what has happened to the overclocking forum, it will more or less die.

Or... We get with the program, and, well, ACT!

What is the issue with linux? If you are going computers into computers in certain degrees you better love linux at some universities. I run dual boot and as far as hardware ms or linux the same.
Plus intel intel intel. Sure. AMD faltered. Now maybe arm will pickup the slack. Linux works on arm. Either you adapt and grow or get left behind.
Overclocking died off as newest.cpu are.already fast for most users. Less need and now more fun.
In real life you can type in your 1000 lines of code any way you want. The constraint we be say what your university wants. Compile and run on centos on the mainframe using gcc . Or similar for work etc.
Then add in network or cloud computing a tablet could easily keep up with a computer.
Really would like to know what way you may go with a computer degree.

signmeuptoo94
Bless you Howie
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle

signmeuptoo94

Premium Member

Up.