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openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2
reply to DataRiker

Re: Doesn't Think It is Fair For Government To Help

said by DataRiker:

Large corporations by extension of lobbying are no longer "private" entities.

What are they?
said by DataRiker:

Even more, this is done for the sole reason of screwing the common lay person, to the benefit of the elite.

Yes, that is the only reason


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

2 edits

said by openbox9:

What are they?

Corporatism creates these stagnant top heavy monsters, capitalism creates nimble, thrifty ( and almost always smaller ) companies.

If you had a truly competitive capitalistic environment you would never see layers of multi million dollar salaries for stagnant top heavy executives with armies of essentially bribery agents. (lobbyists)


DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

3 edits
reply to openbox9

said by openbox9:

said by DataRiker:

Even more, this is done for the sole reason of screwing the common lay person, to the benefit of the elite.

Yes, that is the only reason

They only real beneficiaries are insiders with huge amounts of a particular stock. Huge and Particular being the key words here.

Huge and Particular are not the domain of the lay person when it comes to stock. When you consider mutual funds often invest in multiple companies of a particular sector then it all becomes a wash. One companies gain is another's loss in saturated markets.

Further more, suppose a lay person does have a particular stock, it is highly unlikely that this person owns enough stock that a 1/2 percent dividend increase will make much a difference.

For exec's and wealthy with huge amounts of stock this is extremely significant.

Thus the elite's rat race to push a particular stock ensues.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2
reply to DataRiker

That doesn't answer why you believe large corporations aren't private entities. Corporations are owned by private citizens and management companies that run money for private citizens. Perhaps you're suggesting that corporations are extensions of governments? If so, I disagree.


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2
reply to DataRiker

said by DataRiker:

They only real beneficiaries are insiders with huge amounts of a particular stock. Huge and Particular being the key words here.

Huge and Particular are not the domain of the lay person when it comes to stock. When you consider mutual funds often invest in multiple companies of a particular sector then it all becomes a wash. One companies gain is another's loss in saturated markets.

I would suggest the biggest, not only, beneficiaries are those with resources and access to restricted equity/debt vehicles. This shouldn't be surprising to anyone. The mantra, it takes money to make money, holds true. The layperson can overcome the limitations of mutual/index funds by educating themselves and managing their own money. The layperson has relatively easy opportunity to not be a layperson when investing in equity/debt markets.
said by DataRiker:

Further more, suppose a lay person does have a particular stock, it is highly unlikely that this person owns enough stock that a 1/2 percent dividend increase will make much a difference.

For exec's and wealthy with huge amounts of stock this is extremely significant.

I disagree about seemingly small increases in a company's payout of capital to shareholders. As an example, let's consider AT&T. T currently distributes $1.80/yr. With a closing price of $35.00 on 2 Jan 2013, that equated to a yield of 5.1%. T's 2013 dividend increase of 2.3% is the newest one on top of 29 years of consecutively growing the dividend. Now, lets consider a fairly small investment of 200 shrs in T at the close on 2 Jan 13. That equates to an investment of $7000 with a annual dividend payout of $360. If the stock goes sideways the whole year, that's still a 5.1% return on capital, far better than any savings vehicle available today. Now assume that T continues growing it's dividend at 2.3% for the next ten years, or to $2.26/yr. That's a 25.6% increase and even without reinvesting dividends, takes your $360/yr payout to $452. Assuming a sideways stock and no reinvestment of dividends for a decade, you will have received $4448 in cash, for a 63.5% return on capital. So, those seemingly small increases in dividends do pay over the longterm. As many people are fond of complaining doesn't happen in our markets anymore, this is why people invest for the long term in certain equities. Dollar-wise, will a person with millions to invest make more money than one with thousands? Of course, but the percentages don't change.