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uniqs
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public
join:2002-01-19
Santa Clara, CA

public

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Bloom Box

Mentioned in the locked thread, it has no relation to zinc oxide batteries.
It is a solid oxide fuel cell, much like the O2 sensor in a car.
There are working installations, including a Google site.
Something smells about Bloom Energy though. The company spent $400M, but only has a tiny r/d team, and no explanation of how the money was spent.
lutful
... of ideas
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join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON

1 edit

lutful

Premium Member

said by public:

Mentioned in the locked thread, it has no relation to zinc oxide batteries.
It is a solid oxide fuel cell

My mistake in not looking up this bloom box. Perhaps natural gas can be burned more efficiently in a generator than in a solid oxide fuel cell.

I was recalling musings about very large metal-air batteries: »researcher.watson.ibm.co ··· ?id=3203

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

aurgathor

Member

According to wikipedia, bloom box is not *that* efficient, although with transmission losses factored in, it's definitely in the ballpark.
quote:
Efficiency

Bloom claims a conversion efficiency from incoming fuel to usable electricity of around 50%.[39] Current gas fired power stations convert chemical energy to thermal energy to mechanical energy to electrical energy. A modern combined cycle gas turbine power plant (CCGT) can reach 60% overall efficiency. Sridhar says Bloom Boxes convert chemical energy to electrical energy in one step, and are more fuel efficient than current gas-fired power stations and also reduce transmission/distribution losses by producing power where it is used.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bl ··· y_Server

whizkid3
MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY

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MVM

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There are several concerns.

First, it is basically a fuel cell that runs on natural gas. This is no new magical invention. I believe this technology was first demonstrated in the 1800s. However, what I call the 'catalyst', is the new & amazing part. It makes the unit very efficient.

However, all the efficiency in the world, will not overcome first cost. The Bloom box is very expensive; especially on a cost per watt basis. Because its life-cycle costs are way too high - I believe NO ONE is going to buy it, other than for the 'toy factor' or experimentation (like Google), IMHO.

Other concerns, are that most most fuel cells operate very hot and are relatively dangerous. So, they can not be placed indoors, without a tremendous additional expense of building a fire-rated vault.

The efficiency can not overcome this. It either must be mass produced driving the costs down to where they are competitive with other technologies; or it is not going to fly, IMHO.
lutful
... of ideas
Premium Member
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON

1 edit

lutful to public

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said by public:

Something smells about Bloom Energy though. The company spent $400M, but only has a tiny r/d team, and no explanation of how the money was spent.

Curiously with all that money, they got caught paying $2.66/hr to imported Mexican workers. »www.mercurynews.com/sunn ··· -workers

»gigaom.com/2012/10/31/ad ··· eantech/

The SEC charges were originally over statements ... that Bloom Energy had an order for “2,000 [units] from the CIA,” which would have generated $2 billion in revenue for the company. But in reality Bloom Energy didn’t have any orders from the CIA at that time. ... $2B/2000=$1M per unit!!!

These days, they are essentially giving away $1M bloom boxes to customers who sign contracts to sell the generated power. Sort of debunks the whole conspiracy theory about govt/big business withholding such technology.

billegge
@clearwire-wmx.net

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The purpose of the Bloom box is to get money from the government.

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

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Care to elaborate?
aurgathor

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I think it can fly as a niche product, though that depends a lot on the longevity of the units. With no moving parts they may last for quite a while with little to no maintenance. Whether that's really the case or not -- I do not know.

Looking on wikipedia, there are other companies making comparable products such as Ceramic Fuel Cells
quote:
The first marketed product of the company is "BlueGen" a solid oxide fuel cell which creates electricity and heat by passing natural gas over ceramic fuel cells. BlueGen is 85% efficient and is reported to cut the average Australian home's annual carbon dioxide emissions by 18 tonnes.[5]
Not sure how they got that "85%", but it sure looks very good. Suspiciously good, I might say.
lutful
... of ideas
Premium Member
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON

lutful

Premium Member

said by aurgathor:

Ceramic Fuel Cells

quote:
... "BlueGen" a solid oxide fuel cell which creates electricity and heat by passing natural gas over ceramic fuel cells. BlueGen is 85% efficient ...
Not sure how they got that "85%", but it sure looks very good.

They are adding 25% for the thermal output in addition to the 60% efficient electrical output. I am guessing that 100%-85%=15% of the input energy is lost in breaking up chemical bonds.

Since max electrical output is 1500 watts, the water heater will only be equivalent to 625W which is like a small electric kettle.

By comparison 15% efficient next generation thermo-electric generators could provide same 1500W electricity with almost 8500W for water heating since TEGs do not involve any chemical reaction or moving parts.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
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join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

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»www.fuelcellenergy.com/

is a good firm for fuel cells as they have units installed and functional.

What I find interesting is that a turbine can be added to their units and get extra power from the hot gas flow.

It should be noted that a proper fuel cell installation will not just be used for electrical power and that one should also use heat exchangers to heat up water or even air. from heat that would normally just be bled off into the atmosphere.