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Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5
reply to stvnbrs

Re: SWTOR

If you're going to copy the WoW MMO formula, at least optimize the game engine the fuck sakes. Besides everything that was copied from WoW, it ran like dogshit to boot. You would spend a lot of time on the Imperial Fleet, which was a complete slide show.

Totally unacceptable.

And to honest, cut scenes and voice acting was cool for about the 1st 20 levels.

After that, it became tiresome and boring. I was smashing space bar through every quest by level 40 or so. Revolutionary? Not so much, in my book.



TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to BigReds42

said by BigReds42:

I could go on... but at least state VALID reasons... not opinions in this argument.

-The execution was piss poor
-The end game was non existent at launch
-The story was clichéd and unoriginal
-It lacked serious innovation (compared to GW2, which improved on the old model significantly)
-The visual style was unimpressive
-Went F2P in less than a year in spite of being the most costly MMO ever produced

This is in complete contradiction with the past track record of Bioware, which pre-EA acquisition, one could say was nearly flawless.

I don't know about you, but in my 20 years of gaming, there are very few games that have made long lasting impressions. Games that completely overtook me for days so much I was consumed by its quality. In fact, on the top of my head, I can only think of two games that did that: Ocarina of Time (N64, golden cartridge edition baby) and the original KOTOR.

The writing in KOTOR was just mindblowing. I mean that revelation in the end really surprised me (perhaps I was naive, I was young at the time, but I did not see it coming and I'm usually good at that). The game expanded on the Star Wars cannon in such a meaningful way that Darth Revan and Malak are still regarded as one of the best Star Wars villains ever created.

KOTOR was a true realization of greatness as demonstrated by the overall execution, the narrative especially, the graphics and the gameplay. HK-47 is one of the most memorable video game character of ALL TIME for me, which says a lot. HK-47 and Glados are like the Robin Williams of video games comic. You either like the humor or not, but for me, it's pure gold.

So if you compare the almost magical-like properties of a game like the original KOTOR to SWTOR, the only possible human reaction is your testicules dropping in shame.

I'm not bashing Bioware because it is cool or hip or trendy. I bash them because I am fucking appalled at the state of a developer I once regarded so highly.


footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
reply to jofos

The reason SWTOR is garbage and such a huge disappointment is that EA spent a ton of time and money on development. SWTOR was supposed to be a revolutionary game that redefined MMOs. Even before the game was released, it was common knowledge that SWTOR would change everything in the MMO world. Either by succeeding dramatically and forcing others to copy it or by failing dramatically and showing developers everywhere that spending huge amounts of resources on an MMO is a very risky proposition. It's no coincidence that nearly every MMO out there has gone free to play since SWTOR face planted.
--
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty - Ronald Reagan



gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
reply to jofos

Theres a new patch yesterday supposed to be new/fixed ilum world pvpin.
Havent had time to play lately but Ill probly hop on to try out my trooper and blow some stuff away. Go HAVOC SQUAD!
FOR THE REPUBLIC!!
--
Let them eat FIBER!



BigReds42
Premium
join:2004-07-14
Bellaire, OH
kudos:1
reply to TigerLord

said by TigerLord:

-The execution was piss poor

And what the hell does that mean?


TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8

If you don't know what execution means, simply ignore that argument and move on to the next. There's plenty of them left.



Mcrobrewer
Premium
join:2001-03-04
Trenton, NJ
reply to BigReds42

said by BigReds42:

I could go on... but at least state VALID reasons... not opinions in this argument.

Opinions are often valid reasons.... especially when it comes to video games and their success.
--
Obama is a liar.... a cheat... a person of low moral character... the least common denominator...


Phantasee

join:2009-08-27
Hammond, LA
reply to jofos

I still enjoy Anarchy Online. So enjoying SWTOR is okay if you like COMPLETE EA TAKEOVER RUBBISH CAKES. Other than that it's an ok game in my book.



BigReds42
Premium
join:2004-07-14
Bellaire, OH
kudos:1
reply to TigerLord

said by TigerLord:

-The execution was piss poor
-The end game was non existent at launch
-The story was clichéd and unoriginal
-It lacked serious innovation (compared to GW2, which improved on the old model significantly)
-The visual style was unimpressive
-Went F2P in less than a year in spite of being the most costly MMO ever produced

1. Ignored.

2. That is legitimate.

3. Opinion.... it's fucking Star Wars... Padawans become Jedi... Bad guys become Sith... you can't rewrite canon. You clearly didn't play through the Agent Story.

4. Legit.

5. Opinion... what do you want photorealism?

6. Going F2P doesn't make it the worst game of all time. It was just a bad decision to start off as P2P... after GW and other successful F2P models they shouldn't have made people pay.


BigReds42
Premium
join:2004-07-14
Bellaire, OH
kudos:1
reply to footballdude

said by footballdude:

SWTOR was supposed to be a revolutionary game that redefined MMOs. Even before the game was released, it was common knowledge that SWTOR would change everything in the MMO world.

Says who? And you believed that?

Therein lies the problem... people buying into over-hype.

Take a movie everyone says you have to see because it's so funny. You see it finally a year later and you think... meh. Over hype... doesn't make it garbage.


BigReds42
Premium
join:2004-07-14
Bellaire, OH
kudos:1
reply to Phantasee

said by Phantasee:

I still enjoy Anarchy Online. So enjoying SWTOR is okay if you like COMPLETE EA TAKEOVER RUBBISH CAKES. Other than that it's an ok game in my book.

And that is something the "cool kids" just can't admit... it becomes cool to bash it so we just go sheepishly along and follow the herd.


TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to BigReds42

said by BigReds42:

1. Ignored.

2. That is legitimate.

3. Opinion.... it's fucking Star Wars... Padawans become Jedi... Bad guys become Sith... you can't rewrite canon. You clearly didn't play through the Agent Story.

4. Legit.

5. Opinion... what do you want photorealism?

6. Going F2P doesn't make it the worst game of all time. It was just a bad decision to start off as P2P... after GW and other successful F2P models they shouldn't have made people pay.

3. KOTOR's storytelling was eons ahead in terms of quality. You have low standards.

5. Yes.

6. It makes it the biggest financial flop in the history of video game making, which is significant in and on itself especially when you consider this is Bioware.


gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
reply to TigerLord

A few innovative and different things.

Companions with story who fight and do your chores like selling junk out of inv and crafting.
Huttball! Was only fun for me with ranged characters.
Legacy wide benefits. Makes it easy to level alts quicker.
--
Let them eat FIBER!



BigReds42
Premium
join:2004-07-14
Bellaire, OH
kudos:1
reply to TigerLord

said by TigerLord:

3. KOTOR's storytelling was eons ahead in terms of quality. You have low standards.

5. Yes.

6. It makes it the biggest financial flop in the history of video game making, which is significant in and on itself especially when you consider this is Bioware.

3. Yes because they had the luxury of being a single player RPG on a console... this (despite how I play it) is still an MMO. And what is the "story" of GW2? WoW? etc? I'd give a week's paycheck to any casual peson who plays GW2 or WoW to come on here and actually explain any story they remember.

5. And then only people who can afford 2 $500 video cards would be able to play it.

6. "biggest financial flop in the history of video game"? They still have some subscribers.. and they'll make more money from microtransactions.... they'll recoup... it will just take time. Even if they make $14.... it's no longer the "biggest financial flop in the history of video game" You realize how much money Sony lost on the Playstations? Are they a big flop? Gotta look at the endgame my friend.


Savious
Premium
join:2012-03-05
Belgrade, MT
kudos:4
reply to gaforces

SWTOR was the highest budget game of Hutt Ball I've ever played 10 times in a row.
--
Jobbie told me to keep my signature the same. This is me rebelling.



Zupe
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-29
New York, NY
reply to TigerLord

said by TigerLord:

-The end game was non existent at launch

I thought the story-telling aspects of leveling were innovative, and enjoyed the leveling experience quite a bit. The issue was, they never figured out how to carry that over at max level. Once the story ended, you were left with a standard MMO dungeon/raid setup, and they shot themselves in the foot with that by making what little there was of that content too easy.

You should not be able to go into the hardest raid in the game at the time with a group that's never seen the content before and be fully clearing it the first or second time you run it in this type of game. The ease of completing the raids and therefore, ease of gearing up through them, made the heroic/hardmode/whatever they were called dungeons obsolete, as you could get gear more easily from the raids. That knocked out that entire portion of content beyond seeing them once or twice for the experience, which in turn left almost nothing to do.
--
Brain: Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
Pinky: I think so, Brain, but "Snowball for Windows"?


Savious
Premium
join:2012-03-05
Belgrade, MT
kudos:4
reply to jofos

To be fair, SWTOR was a great game that came out 7 years too late.

The story, companions, environments were all fantastic, but they borrowed too much from WoW in mechanics but nothing regarding game play.

LFD would have been nice, for example. Running around in the fleet was irritating.
--
Jobbie told me to keep my signature the same. This is me rebelling.



Phantasee

join:2009-08-27
Hammond, LA
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to jofos

SWTOR was one of the only MMO's that I came away from playing and I could not explain what the turn-off was for me. I think it was a combination of the travel between quests. Lack of teamwork because everyone was trying to zerg rush through class quests. It tried way too hard to copy like Rift did. And I still think to this day Rift did a better job than SWTOR, regardless of numbers.

And that isn't saying much @ all for either game. Overall they are both quality MMO's compared to some of the rubbish that saturates the MMO market currently. MMo's these days lack adventure. The reason is today's target market does not have time for adventure. We all have time restrictions. The days of Everquest are behind us and most MMO's will be pay-to-win or feel like an E-Sport more than an adventure experience.



Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to BigReds42

said by BigReds42:

And then only people who can afford 2 $500 video cards would be able to play it.

You don't need a $1,000 in GPUs. This isn't a console port we're talking here. Is it too much to ask for a game that doesn't have graphics that look 8 years old right out the gate?

An MMO that releases in the year 2012 better have some damn good graphics or something at least current, not something emulating a cartoon style along the lines of WoW from 2004.


Phantasee

join:2009-08-27
Hammond, LA

Even if it looks like WoW, if it plays well and has a responsive UI, I'll be all over it.



TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to BigReds42

said by BigReds42:

3. Yes because they had the luxury of being a single player RPG on a console... this (despite how I play it) is still an MMO. And what is the "story" of GW2? WoW? etc? I'd give a week's paycheck to any casual peson who plays GW2 or WoW to come on here and actually explain any story they remember.

5. And then only people who can afford 2 $500 video cards would be able to play it.

6. "biggest financial flop in the history of video game"? They still have some subscribers.. and they'll make more money from microtransactions.... they'll recoup... it will just take time. Even if they make $14.... it's no longer the "biggest financial flop in the history of video game" You realize how much money Sony lost on the Playstations? Are they a big flop? Gotta look at the endgame my friend.

3. The story was better than WoW or GW2, but for Star Wars cannon it was poor.

5. Just lower the frickin' graphics if you can't afford a fancy SLI setup. Nobody is forcing us to run things on ultra with forced AA and Ambient Occlusion. Some of us would just like to have the option.

6. You don't realize the millions that was invested in the PR campaign alone will never justify the money spent when looking at the success. My guess is Riot Games will have made more money in the past 2 years from a simple game like LoL than Bioware EVER will from SWTOR even if it would still be here in 50 years. Apparently it cost 200 millions to develop SWTOR.

I'd be interested to know how much it cost to make Skyrim, a game of comparable if not bigger scope and size, even if they're very different.


Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5
reply to Phantasee

said by Phantasee:

Even if it looks like WoW, if it plays well and has a responsive UI, I'll be all over it.

I can deal with something that looks like WoW and runs good. What I can't accept is something that looks like WoW and runs like shit also.

jofos

join:2008-02-14
Irvington, AL
reply to BigReds42

said by BigReds42:

said by Phantasee:

I still enjoy Anarchy Online. So enjoying SWTOR is okay if you like COMPLETE EA TAKEOVER RUBBISH CAKES. Other than that it's an ok game in my book.

And that is something the "cool kids" just can't admit... it becomes cool to bash it so we just go sheepishly along and follow the herd.

Not really worried about being cool as I don't know any of you so why would I care if you think I'm cool. But the game has been out for over a year. I paid two sunscriptions, one for me one for my son, for 8 months and I just paid for another month a few days ago. How can anyone not say there is a problem when you can't even use your characters?
To be fair to BW and SWTOR I can now log into all my characters and for my inconvenience they are giving me some cartel coins.


footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
reply to BigReds42

said by BigReds42:

Therein lies the problem... people buying into over-hype.

You missed the point. The amount of resources EA put into development of SWTOR meant that it's success or failure was going to make significant waves in the industry. The amount of sales and long term subscriptions it received wasn't enough to justify it's cost. It is now highly unlikely that anyone else will sink massive amounts of resources into a subscription MMO.
--
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty - Ronald Reagan


puppy

join:2010-01-28

I think you are mostly on the mark football but I remember when 100M for Waterworld (the stinker movie) was such a calamity back then, but now it's no biggie to hit the 100M for a normal movie. People have short memories and tons of cheap cash sloshing around in the world!



drew
Automatic
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6
reply to jofos

It's been a while since I saw some good old fashioned BRage™!

SWTOR had a pretty fresh look at questing... until you realized that the throw-away character that wants fifteen spacerat skulls is now not only throw-away text, but it's dialog driven and slows the pace down considerably.

Combine that and the pre-40 vanilla WoW travel speeds, even with mounts, between quests... I felt like I was spending far too much time doing everything BUT playing my character in combat.

I still have a major gripe with the UI - there is absolutely no reason to make me press as many buttons as I had to to heal somebody. Either Clique-style or mouseover macros, please.

As for the art style... it was not bad, but certainly not my cup-of-tea in a lot of areas. I remember SWG (and I haven't played that in YEARS) worlds having more detail than SWTOR's did. Lack of LFD at the beginning was also a huge deal. I like grouping, I like instances. That's fun! Making me sit somewhere and spam a chat channel instead of playing is crappy. Even FFXI had a better system, IMO.
--
flickr | 'Cause I've been waiting, all my life just waiting
For you to shine, shine your light on me



footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO

said by drew:

Lack of LFD at the beginning was also a huge deal. I like grouping, I like instances. That's fun! Making me sit somewhere and spam a chat channel instead of playing is crappy. Even FFXI had a better system, IMO.

That's why I eventually gave up on the game. Once I hit max level on my sorcerer, I would have been happy running an instance or two every day and doing occassional leveling on my alts. I went an entire week not being able to find any groups at all for anything, then decided I wasn't going to pay for that crap anymore. Lack of LFD is the main reason I haven't logged into Guild Wars 2 for a few weeks. I just started fooling around with a character in Tera. I don't know yet if that has a LFD, but if it doesn't it won't last for me, either.
--
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty - Ronald Reagan


Koil
Premium
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Come.

Join us...

We all float down here...

»Path of Exile



footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO

said by Koil:

Come.

Join us...

We all float down here...

»Path of Exile

I don't beta. I'd rather let someone else squash all the bugs. I'll likely check it out when it goes live, though.
--
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty - Ronald Reagan


Savious
Premium
join:2012-03-05
Belgrade, MT
kudos:4

Its not really beta anymore, as the game is not doing anymore char wipes.
--
Jobbie told me to keep my signature the same. This is me rebelling.