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Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5
reply to bionicRod

Re: SWTOR

said by bionicRod:

But it's definitely a WoW clone.

NO IT'S NOT. THERE R NO ORCS IN STAR WARS!!


bionicRod
Funkier than a mohair disco ball.
Premium
join:2009-07-06
united state
kudos:2
said by Ghastlyone:

said by bionicRod:

But it's definitely a WoW clone.

NO IT'S NOT. THERE R NO ORCS IN STAR WARS!!

Then what the hell is this?




BigReds42
Premium
join:2004-07-14
Bellaire, OH
kudos:1
reply to Ghastlyone
said by Ghastlyone:

said by bionicRod:

But it's definitely a WoW clone.

NO IT'S NOT. THERE R NO ORCS IN STAR WARS!!

And again... you name me one thing that isn't a "clone" of something else?

ex. GTA/Saints Row/Red Dead.... how are they different besides setting and story?

The genre is MMO... not WoW.

WoW is a skinned Everquest clone.

All MMOs are inherently here's a problem (by reading or watching)go kill this for me and bring this back (by questing)... if you're not tough enough yet there are other things you can do for people (sidequests) until you have the better gear/stats to do the main quest.

Did you know that Thomas Edison didn't event the lightbulb? He only perfected it. And not really that, he just found an acceptable filament and gas mixture combination to make it feasible for everyday use and production. Not to say the lightbulb has not been reinvented countless times since then.


I AM
Premium
join:2010-04-11
Ephrata, PA
kudos:4
I commend you for you passion at the very least BigReds.


BigReds42
Premium
join:2004-07-14
Bellaire, OH
kudos:1
The funny part is it is not passion for SWTOR... I readily admit when I am done with the story stuff I will be done. It has nothing to hold me there, don't like mindlessly bashing my keyboard for an epeen contest.

It's just a passion for the fallacy in his argument which is it is practically the worst game of all time... it's a massive failure... It's an ok game.... it's an single player rpg wrapped in an MMO shell.

But because it didn't kill WoW like everyone thought, people jump on the "cool" side of the argument to bash it and say it is trash.

Superman 64... THAT was trash.

Aquaman... THAT was trash.

I could go on... but at least state VALID reasons... not opinions in this argument.


TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
said by BigReds42:

I could go on... but at least state VALID reasons... not opinions in this argument.

-The execution was piss poor
-The end game was non existent at launch
-The story was clichéd and unoriginal
-It lacked serious innovation (compared to GW2, which improved on the old model significantly)
-The visual style was unimpressive
-Went F2P in less than a year in spite of being the most costly MMO ever produced

This is in complete contradiction with the past track record of Bioware, which pre-EA acquisition, one could say was nearly flawless.

I don't know about you, but in my 20 years of gaming, there are very few games that have made long lasting impressions. Games that completely overtook me for days so much I was consumed by its quality. In fact, on the top of my head, I can only think of two games that did that: Ocarina of Time (N64, golden cartridge edition baby) and the original KOTOR.

The writing in KOTOR was just mindblowing. I mean that revelation in the end really surprised me (perhaps I was naive, I was young at the time, but I did not see it coming and I'm usually good at that). The game expanded on the Star Wars cannon in such a meaningful way that Darth Revan and Malak are still regarded as one of the best Star Wars villains ever created.

KOTOR was a true realization of greatness as demonstrated by the overall execution, the narrative especially, the graphics and the gameplay. HK-47 is one of the most memorable video game character of ALL TIME for me, which says a lot. HK-47 and Glados are like the Robin Williams of video games comic. You either like the humor or not, but for me, it's pure gold.

So if you compare the almost magical-like properties of a game like the original KOTOR to SWTOR, the only possible human reaction is your testicules dropping in shame.

I'm not bashing Bioware because it is cool or hip or trendy. I bash them because I am fucking appalled at the state of a developer I once regarded so highly.


BigReds42
Premium
join:2004-07-14
Bellaire, OH
kudos:1
said by TigerLord:

-The execution was piss poor

And what the hell does that mean?


TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
If you don't know what execution means, simply ignore that argument and move on to the next. There's plenty of them left.


Mcrobrewer
Premium
join:2001-03-04
Trenton, NJ
reply to BigReds42
said by BigReds42:

I could go on... but at least state VALID reasons... not opinions in this argument.

Opinions are often valid reasons.... especially when it comes to video games and their success.
--
Obama is a liar.... a cheat... a person of low moral character... the least common denominator...


BigReds42
Premium
join:2004-07-14
Bellaire, OH
kudos:1
reply to TigerLord
said by TigerLord:

-The execution was piss poor
-The end game was non existent at launch
-The story was clichéd and unoriginal
-It lacked serious innovation (compared to GW2, which improved on the old model significantly)
-The visual style was unimpressive
-Went F2P in less than a year in spite of being the most costly MMO ever produced

1. Ignored.

2. That is legitimate.

3. Opinion.... it's fucking Star Wars... Padawans become Jedi... Bad guys become Sith... you can't rewrite canon. You clearly didn't play through the Agent Story.

4. Legit.

5. Opinion... what do you want photorealism?

6. Going F2P doesn't make it the worst game of all time. It was just a bad decision to start off as P2P... after GW and other successful F2P models they shouldn't have made people pay.


TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
said by BigReds42:

1. Ignored.

2. That is legitimate.

3. Opinion.... it's fucking Star Wars... Padawans become Jedi... Bad guys become Sith... you can't rewrite canon. You clearly didn't play through the Agent Story.

4. Legit.

5. Opinion... what do you want photorealism?

6. Going F2P doesn't make it the worst game of all time. It was just a bad decision to start off as P2P... after GW and other successful F2P models they shouldn't have made people pay.

3. KOTOR's storytelling was eons ahead in terms of quality. You have low standards.

5. Yes.

6. It makes it the biggest financial flop in the history of video game making, which is significant in and on itself especially when you consider this is Bioware.


gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
reply to TigerLord
A few innovative and different things.

Companions with story who fight and do your chores like selling junk out of inv and crafting.
Huttball! Was only fun for me with ranged characters.
Legacy wide benefits. Makes it easy to level alts quicker.
--
Let them eat FIBER!


BigReds42
Premium
join:2004-07-14
Bellaire, OH
kudos:1
reply to TigerLord
said by TigerLord:

3. KOTOR's storytelling was eons ahead in terms of quality. You have low standards.

5. Yes.

6. It makes it the biggest financial flop in the history of video game making, which is significant in and on itself especially when you consider this is Bioware.

3. Yes because they had the luxury of being a single player RPG on a console... this (despite how I play it) is still an MMO. And what is the "story" of GW2? WoW? etc? I'd give a week's paycheck to any casual peson who plays GW2 or WoW to come on here and actually explain any story they remember.

5. And then only people who can afford 2 $500 video cards would be able to play it.

6. "biggest financial flop in the history of video game"? They still have some subscribers.. and they'll make more money from microtransactions.... they'll recoup... it will just take time. Even if they make $14.... it's no longer the "biggest financial flop in the history of video game" You realize how much money Sony lost on the Playstations? Are they a big flop? Gotta look at the endgame my friend.


Savious
Premium
join:2012-03-05
Belgrade, MT
kudos:4
reply to gaforces
SWTOR was the highest budget game of Hutt Ball I've ever played 10 times in a row.
--
Jobbie told me to keep my signature the same. This is me rebelling.


Zupe
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-29
New York, NY
reply to TigerLord
said by TigerLord:

-The end game was non existent at launch

I thought the story-telling aspects of leveling were innovative, and enjoyed the leveling experience quite a bit. The issue was, they never figured out how to carry that over at max level. Once the story ended, you were left with a standard MMO dungeon/raid setup, and they shot themselves in the foot with that by making what little there was of that content too easy.

You should not be able to go into the hardest raid in the game at the time with a group that's never seen the content before and be fully clearing it the first or second time you run it in this type of game. The ease of completing the raids and therefore, ease of gearing up through them, made the heroic/hardmode/whatever they were called dungeons obsolete, as you could get gear more easily from the raids. That knocked out that entire portion of content beyond seeing them once or twice for the experience, which in turn left almost nothing to do.
--
Brain: Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
Pinky: I think so, Brain, but "Snowball for Windows"?


Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to BigReds42
said by BigReds42:

And then only people who can afford 2 $500 video cards would be able to play it.

You don't need a $1,000 in GPUs. This isn't a console port we're talking here. Is it too much to ask for a game that doesn't have graphics that look 8 years old right out the gate?

An MMO that releases in the year 2012 better have some damn good graphics or something at least current, not something emulating a cartoon style along the lines of WoW from 2004.


Phantasee

join:2009-08-27
Hammond, LA
Even if it looks like WoW, if it plays well and has a responsive UI, I'll be all over it.


TigerLord
UEE Citizen
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to BigReds42
said by BigReds42:

3. Yes because they had the luxury of being a single player RPG on a console... this (despite how I play it) is still an MMO. And what is the "story" of GW2? WoW? etc? I'd give a week's paycheck to any casual peson who plays GW2 or WoW to come on here and actually explain any story they remember.

5. And then only people who can afford 2 $500 video cards would be able to play it.

6. "biggest financial flop in the history of video game"? They still have some subscribers.. and they'll make more money from microtransactions.... they'll recoup... it will just take time. Even if they make $14.... it's no longer the "biggest financial flop in the history of video game" You realize how much money Sony lost on the Playstations? Are they a big flop? Gotta look at the endgame my friend.

3. The story was better than WoW or GW2, but for Star Wars cannon it was poor.

5. Just lower the frickin' graphics if you can't afford a fancy SLI setup. Nobody is forcing us to run things on ultra with forced AA and Ambient Occlusion. Some of us would just like to have the option.

6. You don't realize the millions that was invested in the PR campaign alone will never justify the money spent when looking at the success. My guess is Riot Games will have made more money in the past 2 years from a simple game like LoL than Bioware EVER will from SWTOR even if it would still be here in 50 years. Apparently it cost 200 millions to develop SWTOR.

I'd be interested to know how much it cost to make Skyrim, a game of comparable if not bigger scope and size, even if they're very different.


Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5
reply to Phantasee
said by Phantasee:

Even if it looks like WoW, if it plays well and has a responsive UI, I'll be all over it.

I can deal with something that looks like WoW and runs good. What I can't accept is something that looks like WoW and runs like shit also.