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red2

@fastwebnet.it

System Tray Load Order

Under XP SP3 I'm curious what determines the system tray load order.

I've recently upgraded to KAV 12 and that usually loads last. Is that because it was the last application to be installed? I would think there would be a benefit to have an AV or firewall load before other items in the system.

What really surprises me is that the load order is not consistent, so that one day one app loads first, the next day another. And perhaps it is just a coincidence but I get the impression that things load differently after a Windows patch Tuesday.


dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

AFAIK, there is no order. Things get started (possibly in registry-key order, which is likely lexical order). They take varying amounts of time to get to the point of being 'ready' enough to display an icon. And the usual dynamics of scheduling will add to the variation.



norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
reply to red2

said by red2 :

Under XP SP3 I'm curious what determines the system tray load order.

I've recently upgraded to KAV 12 and that usually loads last. Is that because it was the last application to be installed?

The system process of avp.exe loads as early as it is allowed.
What you are seeing is the user process of avp.exe loading.
You are protected earlier than what you visually see when viewing the late loading of the tray icon off the user process.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



red2

@fastwebnet.it

Thanks to both of you.

dave, you answered my question of why they seem to load in a different order each time. Ages ago when I worked on a mac and had a startup confilict, I thought I remembered having some influence over load order. But perhaps I'm mistaken.

norwegian, your answer clarified one of the concerns I've had that avp.exe seems to always load last.



Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11
reply to red2

It would be nice.
One specific thing I love about Windows 7 is how you can control the ORDER in which the icons appear in the system tray. They may not load first based on the order they appear... but they appear in the order you select... each and every time.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to red2

I have had BootLog XP for many years. It's excellent. There is a free trial so you could use that for awhile. It will show you exactly where in the boot order, in great detail, various elements of your AV load. ProcessGuard loads extremely early (not the GUI) ...the driver does...and WAY WAY WAY before ANY AV element and I had quite a few of them on XP since I first got it in 2003. I know when I had KIS back in 2005-6 that ProcessGuard loaded way before any element of KIS. There is no way any AV can load really early. None of them work at what Intel calls ring zero but ProcessGuard does. ProcessGuard became a part of the kernel. I feel naked on Win 8 without it. There is no classic HIPS like it and the few out there do not work on Win 8 (like so many programs).

»greatis.com/utilities/bootlogxp/
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback

1 edit

You can always use the boot log of Windows, it is a simple switch in the msconfig console that creates a text document of the driver order. Free too.



mouse
Premium
join:2007-03-29
australia
reply to Dustyn

said by Dustyn:

One specific thing I love about Windows 7 is how you can control the ORDER in which the icons appear in the system tray.

Dustyn, could you please tell me where I can configure this?


deke40
Premium
join:2003-01-23
Texas

2 edits

1 recommendation

said by mouse:

said by Dustyn:

One specific thing I love about Windows 7 is how you can control the ORDER in which the icons appear in the system tray.

Dustyn, could you please tell me where I can configure this?

Try the first one.

»lmgtfy.com/?q=arrange+icons+in+s···indows+7

Hurry before WCB moves this.

Also if you want some to show and some to hide. Right click Taskbar, click Properties, click Notification Area, tick the "Hide inactive Icons box, click Customize then click on an item and set to hide or show. When finished setting them click Apply and Ok.

PS-Sorry Dustyn, about trying to answer this. I have to get up early to beat you younger guys to the draw.

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to red2

System tray is provided by Windows Explorer (file manager program). And order of icons in systray has nothing to do with the order, in which programs were started (loaded). System (not WE) determines the order of startup processes. It has many phases and each has specific places for configuration (registry, file system, etc). KAV uses system to load itself at appropriate time. And when it;s loaded has nothing to do with the position (order) of its icon in WE.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by OZO:

System (not WE) determines the order of startup processes. It has many phases and each has specific places for configuration (registry, file system, etc).

Stuff that is started after login, i.e. stuff that is displayed on the desktop, is started by Windows Explorer. You can see the parent-child relationship with, for example, Process Explorer.

I think we can safely say that things started by Windows Explorer are in fact in an order determined by Explorer (even if it's only "lexical order by key").

Still, I agree with the important point here. For a typical anti-malware product that has any hope of working, the real functional part of the product must start very early in the life of the system. The user inteface must start after login, but the non-existence of the user interface doesn't mean there's no protection until then.


red2

@fastwebnet.it

said by dave:

The user inteface must start after login, but the non-existence of the user interface doesn't mean there's no protection until then.

That's it.

Because KAV has the habit of showing up late in the system tray that made me wonder if other processes were starting before it. And then once the order was inconsistent, that made me curious again if something undesirable could or would control the load order in the sytem tray.

So given your explanation, what shows in system tray and when it shows is irrelevant since it only relates to the user interface and not the activity of the process.

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to dave

said by dave:

Stuff that is started after login, i.e. stuff that is displayed on the desktop, is started by Windows Explorer. You can see the parent-child relationship with, for example, Process Explorer.

I think we can safely say that things started by Windows Explorer are in fact in an order determined by Explorer (even if it's only "lexical order by key").

One can replace WE with another file manager program and then it will determine order of programs, it starts. Or one can even simply run a BAT file, where it's possible to specify asynchronous starts (as WE does) or even sequential synchronous executions of other processes. But I agree, after login users usually see things, started by WE.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11
reply to mouse

It's pretty simple.
Just left click and hold on the system tray icon you want to move and drag it in front or behind whichever tray icon you wish to have it. Next time you reboot windows 7, it will be in the new position you have chosen.
For Windows XP: »www.online-tech-tips.com/compute···buttons/
--
Remember that cool hidden "Graffiti Wall" here on BBR? After the name change I became the "owner", so to speak as it became: Dustyn's Wall »[Serious] RIP