SnakeoilIgnore Button. The coward's feature. Premium Member join:2000-08-05 united state |
to sk1939
Re: RAM 1500 Becomes Industry-First Half-Ton Diesel PickupWhy do people think diesels are slow/clunky? I've seen diesel dragsters that were anything but slow and clunky. Besides that, as long as it can do/maintain the speed limit, is there any reason to have a top speed of 120 MPH or faster? |
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to Snakeoil
And at 60,000 miles you will have to strip the head/manifolds to decoke it. |
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Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me. Premium Member join:2001-04-19 1970 442 W30 |
to Beezel
said by Beezel:I thought they were a 1.9L Isuzu diesel? The whole truck was built by Izusu, just like Mazda built the Ford Courier truck of the same era. |
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to Snakeoil
Love Diesels. have one every year when i go back to the UK. I cannot understand why anyone would want to drive a gas car anymore. I would guess that 80% of all cars on the road in the UK are diesel. Gas stations have 6 diesel pumps and 2 gas pumps. My family won't touch a gas car. Most are 1.8 liter turbo's and they go like hell and I beat the crap out of the rental car and still get 40MPG(US gallon). Of course the onboard computer is for the UK gallon and they show 50MPG. Of course European cars are mostly all manual tranny 5 or 6 speed and the extra low down torque really makes for a nice driving car. You cannot tell the car is diesel from inside, but outside they sound like gas powered cars that need a lifter or two replacing. Even the big top of the line Jaguars offer a diesel. » www.jaguar.com/gb/en/xf/ ··· icationsA friend who goes to Italy every year, like me, won't rent a gas powered car any more. My only complaint with diesel is that every friggin diesel gas pump nozzle in the UK leaks and you stink after filling the tank. The gas stations have hand wipes available because I guess hand wipes are cheaper than fixing the nozzles. |
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scooper join:2000-07-11 Kansas City, KS ·Google Fiber
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to Cho Baka
said by Cho Baka:And at 60,000 miles you will have to strip the head/manifolds to decoke it. My head has never been off the car. Get with the times and read about MODERN diesels, not the old wives tales you're repeating. |
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I am referring to modern diesels. Here is a link: » www.myturbodiesel.com/10 ··· rbon.htm
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scooper join:2000-07-11 Kansas City, KS ·Google Fiber
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scooper
Member
2013-Feb-17 11:20 am
Yes - the crap that came from the older LSD fuel and not the ULSD fuel of today.
Really - guys - I also hangout at www.tdiclub.com - anything you can bring out - I can refute with facts., as well as having 220,000 miles / 10 years of my own experiance with diesel VWs |
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That is carbon buildup, not sulfur buildup. |
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Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me. Premium Member join:2001-04-19 1970 442 W30 |
to Snakeoil
said by Snakeoil:But also, Diesels have a longer maintenance interval then gasoline engines. For example instead of every 3k for an oil change you can go 5k in a diesel. That is from the increased crankcase/oil sump capacity and larger filter so it can go longer due to the extra dirt holding capacity of the extra oil. Nothing magic or special about it. |
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Lurch77 Premium Member join:2001-11-22 Green Bay, WI |
Lurch77
Premium Member
2013-Feb-17 11:58 am
My work van is at 295,000 right now. Original engine, transmission, rear end, none leak or use fluids. The oil schedule is supposed to be every 5000, but it gets changed anywhere between 5000 and 9000 miles, depending on my work load. I put 40K to 50K on it per year. 5.0L GM engine. I'm due to get a newer van soon, and I'll admit it will be bitter sweet giving up this ride, it's been good to me. |
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sk1939 Premium Member join:2010-10-23 Frederick, MD ARRIS SB8200 Ubiquiti UDM-Pro Juniper SRX320
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to Snakeoil
said by Snakeoil:Why do people think diesels are slow/clunky? I've seen diesel dragsters that were anything but slow and clunky. Besides that, as long as it can do/maintain the speed limit, is there any reason to have a top speed of 120 MPH or faster? Quite a few people don't travel at the speed limit around here, usually it's around 20 miles above (65-85). For the most part they are slow, while they have decent performance for torque, they are certainly not high revving engines. |
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Lurch77 Premium Member join:2001-11-22 Green Bay, WI |
Lurch77
Premium Member
2013-Feb-17 3:52 pm
There isn't a modern diesel vehicle designed for road use that cannot easily do well over our speed limits. You almost sound like they shouldn't be allowed on the highway. Even the big heavy Passat TDI can get to 60mph in 9 seconds, and it is governor limited to 113mph. Not exactly fast but very acceptable. |
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sk1939 Premium Member join:2010-10-23 Frederick, MD ARRIS SB8200 Ubiquiti UDM-Pro Juniper SRX320
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sk1939
Premium Member
2013-Feb-17 4:14 pm
said by Lurch77:There isn't a modern diesel vehicle designed for road use that cannot easily do well over our speed limits. You almost sound like they shouldn't be allowed on the highway. Even the big heavy Passat TDI can get to 60mph in 9 seconds, and it is governor limited to 113mph. Not exactly fast but very acceptable. I suppose that's true, I still remember the old Mercedes and Cadillac diesels that couldn't. Fuel prices are still too costly so I wouldn't get one personally, but it's good they've improved quite a bit. |
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Lurch77 Premium Member join:2001-11-22 Green Bay, WI |
Lurch77
Premium Member
2013-Feb-17 6:20 pm
You have to remember the vehicle's MPG while calculating the fuel costs. The Cruze mentioned earlier doesn't seem like a good deal when the gasser version is only slightly behind in mileage but many thousands less to buy. On the other hand, you won't find a gas car the size of the Passat that can get anywhere close to 45-50mpg. |
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sailor Premium Member join:2003-10-21 Long Island |
sailor
Premium Member
2013-Feb-17 7:13 pm
said by Lurch77:You have to remember the vehicle's MPG while calculating the fuel costs. The Cruze mentioned earlier doesn't seem like a good deal when the gasser version is only slightly behind in mileage but many thousands less to buy. On the other hand, you won't find a gas car the size of the Passat that can get anywhere close to 45-50mpg. That's a good point you make regarding the Cruze... Do you feel the Cruze with the diesel would offer better performance, say from 0-60, over the gas equipped Cruze? |
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Lurch77 Premium Member join:2001-11-22 Green Bay, WI |
Lurch77
Premium Member
2013-Feb-17 7:33 pm
I would have to guess it will be a little slower in performance, given the history of gas vs diesel production cars. On the flip side, many owners and reviewers of VW diesel cars claim to experience significantly higher MPG than VW claims with it's diesels. So maybe the low 40s Chevy claims will be higher as well. That would make a difference. |
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to Lurch77
said by Lurch77: On the other hand, you won't find a gas car the size of the Passat that can get anywhere close to 45-50mpg. A Camry is very similar to the Passat:
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sailor Premium Member join:2003-10-21 Long Island |
to Lurch77
Thanks! |
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Lurch77 Premium Member join:2001-11-22 Green Bay, WI
2 recommendations |
to Cho Baka
That's the hybrid, which opens up a lot of other costs vs mileage comparisons. I assumed we were talking strictly gas vs diesel. |
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SnakeoilIgnore Button. The coward's feature. Premium Member join:2000-08-05 united state |
to Cho Baka
Try this link: Please note the cars used are 2011 models. » carsort.com/compare/Toyo ··· en-Jettaquote:
In-city gas mileage camry 22 mpg vs Jetta TDI 30 mpg The Jetta TDI has great city mileage and the Camry SE is pretty reasonable
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scooper join:2000-07-11 Kansas City, KS ·Google Fiber
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to sk1939
I lived in the DC area from 1988 to 1998, and we go through every 2 years to a family reunion north of Havre de grace MD- I know what the traffic is like in that area. I have no issues at all with my TDI New Beetle in keeping up with any reasonable speeds seen.
And yes - the diesels aren't quite as high revving - but they don't need to be either. The mechanicals of a VW diesel are the same as the higher revving gas motors - so the issue on the redline is not mechanical - it's giving the diesel process enough time to ignite the fuel / air mixture. With the stock ECU programming - the really useful RPM range is 2000-about 4000, with redline at 4800. You can get some hot rod ECU programs that will substantially boost HP and torque - 10-20% aftermarket boost in power is not uncommon and adds some get up and go, and done right - don't even cause it to smoke - and increase MPG to boot. |
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sk1939 Premium Member join:2010-10-23 Frederick, MD ARRIS SB8200 Ubiquiti UDM-Pro Juniper SRX320
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sk1939
Premium Member
2013-Feb-17 8:53 pm
said by scooper:I lived in the DC area from 1988 to 1998, and we go through every 2 years to a family reunion north of Havre de grace MD- I know what the traffic is like in that area. I have no issues at all with my TDI New Beetle in keeping up with any reasonable speeds seen.
And yes - the diesels aren't quite as high revving - but they don't need to be either. The mechanicals of a VW diesel are the same as the higher revving gas motors - so the issue on the redline is not mechanical - it's giving the diesel process enough time to ignite the fuel / air mixture. With the stock ECU programming - the really useful RPM range is 2000-about 4000, with redline at 4800. You can get some hot rod ECU programs that will substantially boost HP and torque - 10-20% aftermarket boost in power is not uncommon and adds some get up and go, and done right - don't even cause it to smoke - and increase MPG to boot. Interesting, I'm not super familiar with the mechanics of VW's having never owned one. I did take a look though at VW's page, it's a shame none except the Touareg (unfortunately named) have more than 140HP (although have an impressive 240ft.-lbs of torque). |
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to Lurch77
The Hybrid is strictly gasoline...
I threw it out there as a comparison to the Passat. |
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Fir_Na_TineTime to get riggity riggity wrecked son Premium Member join:2001-01-03 South Jersey |
to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd:isnt that one of the reasons a semi has like 30 gears?
As for dislike of diesel in the US, Part of it is emissions. people still commonly link diesel with city buses and dump trucks spewing black smoke.
You also have the issue of the fuel itself. I have rarely seen a diesel pump at a gas station. Well rarely since moving down here to south jersey, When i lived in CT and was right by the freeway every station had diesel with both car and truck nozzles. Most tractor trailers have 9,10 or 13 speed transmissions. Lots are moving to automatics as well but are different from car automatics, basically they are the same manual tranny's just shifted by computer. There are some trucks that have 18 speeds too. Also the WaWa near me just installed a diesel pump and most Citgo's and other stations have them but aren't easily noticed because they are with the regular gas pumps and not on a separate island. Some even have a sign saying no big truck fueling. So they are becoming more prevalent in the area. |
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HarryH3 Premium Member join:2005-02-21 |
to sk1939
said by sk1939:... I did take a look though at VW's page, it's a shame none except the Touareg (unfortunately named) have more than 140HP (although have an impressive 240ft.-lbs of torque). Horsepower is a calculation that relies on RPM, which leaves low-revving motors with low HP numbers. HP=(RPM * T) / 5252. Take a ride in a modern turbodiesel pickup if you'd like to be enlightened about the feeling real torque gives you. They flat haul a$$ when you mash the loud pedal! 600+ ft/lb of torque in stock form and you can easily push them into the 800+ ft/lb range with a programmer. Picture this: A buddy of mine has a 4WD K2500 Crew Cab pickup with the Duramax diesel. It's sitting on 37-inch tall mud tires and weighs well over 7,000 pounds. It was amazingly quick in stock form, then he added a programmer that manages fuel and boost. On its highest setting, it pushes 875 ft.lbs. He loves to spank Camabirds and Mustangs at the local dragstrip. It just doesn't look like it should go like it does. He has to launch in 4WD to keep from smoking the back tires down most of the track. The diesels you can buy today have left the klattermotors of yesteryear in the dust. The biggest impediment for diesels today is the EPA. Just a few years ago they lowered the emission standards to be far lower than what is acceptable in Europe. Now we have diesels with catalytic convertors and urea injection. This adds even more cost to operation. The trucks that require urea use a gallon or so per tankful. Last I looked, it was priced in the $8-10 per gallon range. So add that to the higher price of diesel fuel. The upfront cost of the diesel engine is also extreme. On a new F-250, checking the diesel box will set you back an additional $8,095! So you have to really want that torque... |
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LazMan Premium Member join:2003-03-26 Beverly Hills, CA |
to Cho Baka
said by Cho Baka:The Hybrid is strictly gasoline...
I threw it out there as a comparison to the Passat. Not for nothing, but the $3500 battery pack replacement cost should be amortized over the annual "savings" for the vehicle... Based on the 8-10 year life the Prius packs are showing, that adds $350-500/yr to the operating costs of a Hybrid. Still very cheap to operate, efficient, and the price point has dropped to where it's a option for many people, no argument - but there is that "gotcha" when the batteries need to be replaced (and, at some point, they will...) |
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hitachi369Embrace Your Rights Premium Member join:2001-10-03 Cincinnati, OH |
And if there were a diesel electric hybrid, it would have even higher MPG numbers. |
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sk1939 Premium Member join:2010-10-23 Frederick, MD ARRIS SB8200 Ubiquiti UDM-Pro Juniper SRX320
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to HarryH3
At that kind of pricing I'd prefer to get a BMW M3. That's the one issue I've always had with diesel trucks, people who modify them and add unnecessary things like stacks to make them even noisier.
The last time I had a truck, it was an F250 the Navistar(International) 7.3. It wasn't a bad truck, but it was too big and had close to 300k miles. That was back in 2006 or so (was a '96) so I don't know how modern it was. |
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to LazMan
And you could quite easily argue that turbo, DPNR catalyst replacement and decarbonizing on a diesel should also be included in amortized costs as well. Those will need to be done about as often (if not more often) as will HV batteries - and contrary to what you state, most Prius do not need a battery at that age. |
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LazMan Premium Member join:2003-03-26 Beverly Hills, CA |
LazMan
Premium Member
2013-Feb-18 6:27 pm
I'm not looking to get into a pissing match here...
I've seen 500k put on diesel VW's at a rate of 50-60k a year; and never needed cat, turbo, or decarboning service... Nothing more then glow plugs, and routine maintenance.
I'll agree with Lurch and others here that a hybrid vs. diesel isn't an apples to apples argument... Toyota has a great hybrid package, and as I said above, they are getting to the point of being affordable and practical for more consumers. |
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