 | Start your own If an area demands services that are not available, someone will start their own ISP and provide those services. |
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 pandoraPremium join:2001-06-01 Outland kudos:1 | If the law permits. |
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 VanPremium join:2009-07-08 New Orleans, LA | reply to johan_hammy said by johan_hammy:If an area demands services that are not available, someone will start their own ISP and provide those services. Yeah, someone will start their own! Oh, except for those pesky rules that AT&T and others put in place making it all but impossible to do just that and start your own....rules which AT&T did not follow when they started
But yeah, let's let the FREE MARKET ride! Free Market meaning a market where AT&T and others write the rules deciding who does what and where! |
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 openbox9Premium join:2004-01-26 japan kudos:2 | reply to pandora Where is it prohibited? |
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 | reply to pandora said by pandora:If the law permits. I am not aware of a single place in the United States where you are not permitted to start an ISP. |
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 openbox9Premium join:2004-01-26 japan kudos:2 | reply to Van said by Van:Yeah, someone will start their own! Oh, except for those pesky rules that AT&T and others put in place making it all but impossible to do just that and start your own....rules which AT&T did not follow when they started Such as? Are you referring to the few states that don't allow municipalities to willy-nilly enter the ISP market? I believe johan_hammy meant private citizens/businesses, not governments. |
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 | reply to Van said by Van:said by johan_hammy:If an area demands services that are not available, someone will start their own ISP and provide those services. Yeah, someone will start their own! Oh, except for those pesky rules that AT&T and others put in place making it all but impossible to do just that and start your own....rules which AT&T did not follow when they started But yeah, let's let the FREE MARKET ride! Free Market meaning a market where AT&T and others write the rules deciding who does what and where! What rules where? |
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 pawpaw join:2004-05-05 Greenville, SC | reply to johan_hammy In olden days (1910) they did it like this: »www.eugenegill.com/The_Twentieth···1910.pdf
No government to help or hinder. |
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 pandoraPremium join:2001-06-01 Outland kudos:1 Reviews:
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| reply to johan_hammy To start a phone / Internet company delivering wired service to a home?
Lets see ... pole attachment is controlled by the FCC, but attachment rates can be controlled by a state. Kentucky controls pole attachment rates. See - »transition.fcc.gov/eb/Public_Not···3A1.html
As of January 17, 2013 the rights of Cable TV and Internet providers to attach wire to telephone poles is unclear in portions of Kentucky. See - psc.ky.gov/order_vault/Orders_2013/201200544_01172013.pdf
CATV providers have to comply with state law, and obtain an exclusive license from a local community to operate. After meeting all the requirements for cable TV, they still can't attach wire to many poles.
Of the poles you may be able to attach to (assuming the owner of the poles is persuaded by your pitch, and agrees with you there is spare capacity), the rate in Kentucky for a non-regulated pole per year would be $13.86 to $21.64 - »www.kycable.com/blog/fair-and-re···kentucky
You'll have to decide if your service is a cable TV provider (all areas to obtain a permit to start a cable TV service are locked up in Kentucky, unless the state somehow grows, there is no opportunity to offer cable TV), or you could decide to become an ILEC. This requires lots of filings with the FCC and Kentucky, you'll need to buy out an ILEC, or find an area in Kentucky where there is no ILEC (note at this time there is no area).
If you want to just provide Internet service, then you are unregulated. And nobody is or has to be your friend. »law.justia.com/codes/kentucky/20···278-540/
Good luck hanging wires off telephone poles. Note even if you obtain permission from the pole owner, that doesn't mean you obtained permission for the right of way from property owners over which your wires will be run (unless you are a utility, meaning a telephone company or cable TV company recognized by the state or an electric utility). -- Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle. |
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 | said by pandora:To start a phone / Internet company delivering wired service to a home? What about wireless?
What about underground?
said by pandora:As of January 17, 2013 the rights of Cable TV and Internet providers to attach wire to telephone poles is unclear in portions of Kentucky. See - psc.ky.gov/order_vault/Orders_2013/201200544_01172013.pdf
CATV providers have to comply with state law, and obtain an exclusive license from a local community to operate. After meeting all the requirements for cable TV, they still can't attach wire to many poles.
Of the poles you may be able to attach to (assuming the owner of the poles is persuaded by your pitch, and agrees with you there is spare capacity), the rate in Kentucky for a non-regulated pole per year would be $13.86 to $21.64 - »www.kycable.com/blog/fair-and-re···kentucky
You'll have to decide if your service is a cable TV provider (all areas to obtain a permit to start a cable TV service are locked up in Kentucky, unless the state somehow grows, there is no opportunity to offer cable TV), or you could decide to become an ILEC. This requires lots of filings with the FCC and Kentucky, you'll need to buy out an ILEC, or find an area in Kentucky where there is no ILEC (note at this time there is no area). What about a CLEC?
said by pandora:If you want to just provide Internet service, then you are unregulated. And nobody is or has to be your friend. »law.justia.com/codes/kentucky/20···278-540/
Good luck hanging wires off telephone poles. Note even if you obtain permission from the pole owner, that doesn't mean you obtained permission for the right of way from property owners over which your wires will be run (unless you are a utility, meaning a telephone company or cable TV company recognized by the state or an electric utility). If you become a CLEC, you are afforded the same rights as an ILEC. ROW, poles, everything. That said, you don't even have to do that. A lot of fiber is built around here without any formal licensing. You only need the permission of the ROW owner. |
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| said by johan_hammy:If you become a CLEC, you are afforded the same rights as an ILEC. ROW, poles, everything. That said, you don't even have to do that. A lot of fiber is built around here without any formal licensing. You only need the permission of the ROW owner. Nope. CLEC's don't have the rights of way an ILEC has. You must negotiate for them with the land owners. On my street there are about a dozen land owners before my home, one is the city. The poles are owned the the electric company. Our town taxes wires, poles and conduit via property tax, in addition to any other fees.
To be a CLEC you must comply with a ton of regulations. My guess is hiring a large law firm with expertise in any state and local community you want to set up in would be the first step. Maybe in a few dozen years, you'll have finished the 50th environmental survey and get approval for a test of 50 poles. 
Regulation is a barrier to entry, and is half the problem. It keeps competition out of telco space, Wal-Mart out of many communities, even gas stations. Many love pristine communities with lots of regulations to "protect" us, the environment, the poor, disabled, non-English speakers or whatever. As we impose these costs, the barrier to entry gets ever steeper. -- Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle. |
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 | said by pandora:said by johan_hammy:If you become a CLEC, you are afforded the same rights as an ILEC. ROW, poles, everything. That said, you don't even have to do that. A lot of fiber is built around here without any formal licensing. You only need the permission of the ROW owner. Nope. CLEC's don't have the rights of way an ILEC has. You must negotiate for them with the land owners. On my street there are about a dozen land owners before my home, one is the city. The poles are owned the the electric company. Our town taxes wires, poles and conduit via property tax, in addition to any other fees. To be a CLEC you must comply with a ton of regulations. My guess is hiring a large law firm with expertise in any state and local community you want to set up in would be the first step. Maybe in a few dozen years, you'll have finished the 50th environmental survey and get approval for a test of 50 poles.  Regulation is a barrier to entry, and is half the problem. It keeps competition out of telco space, Wal-Mart out of many communities, even gas stations. Many love pristine communities with lots of regulations to "protect" us, the environment, the poor, disabled, non-English speakers or whatever. As we impose these costs, the barrier to entry gets ever steeper. This would be the very first time I've heard of a CLEC not having the same rights as an ILEC, aside of must provide, USF, etc.
»www.americanclec.com/
Those guys can help you become a CLEC and are based out of Kentucky. I know of another ISP that became a CLEC in Kentucky.
»www.rinioneil.com/ »www.lokt.net/ »www.lermansenter.com/
All very good organizations to work with.
www.wispa.org www.fispa.org |
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 pandoraPremium join:2001-06-01 Outland kudos:1 Reviews:
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| said by johan_hammy  This would be the very first time I've heard of a CLEC not having the same rights as an ILEC, aside of must provide, USF, etc.
»www.americanclec.com/
Those guys can help you become a CLEC and are based out of Kentucky. I know of another ISP that became a CLEC in Kentucky.
»www.rinioneil.com/ »www.lokt.net/ »www.lermansenter.com/
All very good organizations to work with.
www.wispa.org www.fispa.org [/BQUOTE :GO FOR IT!!! SET UP THAT CHEAP $10 a month gigabit Internet service provider with universal access in Kentucky. Make a billionaire out of yourself with $200 seed capital!
If were possible, there would be many companies with wire along our poles. In my community it's Comcast, AT&T and the electric company. -- Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle. |
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 | It is certainly possible and not that difficult to be an ISP anywhere in the United States. What is difficult is providing people the services they think they need for the prices they think they need them at.
Very few people today need more than 25 megabit/s of Internet. There just isn't much advantage to it.
Sell them 25 megabit for $60 and they'll complain it isn't 50 megabit for $45. There just is no way to win.
That said, there are literally thousands of independent ISPs in the US. If it were so hard or impossible, they wouldn't exist.
I'm sorry you've set yourself up with the assumption that it can't be done. |
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 pandoraPremium join:2001-06-01 Outland kudos:1 Reviews:
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| said by johan_hammy:It is certainly possible and not that difficult to be an ISP anywhere in the United States. What is difficult is providing people the services they think they need for the prices they think they need them at.
Very few people today need more than 25 megabit/s of Internet. There just isn't much advantage to it.
Sell them 25 megabit for $60 and they'll complain it isn't 50 megabit for $45. There just is no way to win. There is no way to win. Karl loves to compare high density areas of Hong Kong to the Continent that is the United States.
I'd love Karl to get dslreports to create an ISP serving a few square blocks around him. It'd help provide gravitas to his critiques. Hey Karl, why not have dslreports.com sponsor an experimental neighborhood ISP if there is any user interested in starting one. I'd love to read a blot telling us how easy and profitable they are to create. You'll pay for content? What could be better than paying to have a series of articles regarding establishment of a neighborhood ISP.
Comcast charges me about $60 per month for 25 MB down. It's not great speeds per the ISP in Hong Kong. Then again, many Hong Kong residents are living in 375 cubic foot cages. I don't know who wants to trade a U.S. home or apartment for 375 cubic feet to get that high speed low cost Internet we read about on these forums. »www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article···hes.html
Living in a 2.5 x 2.5 x 6' rabbit wire cage with a few hundred friends getting really fast LAN like service within part of Hong Kong isn't my dream living situation.
Google tells me the low cost $25 per month Hong Kong plan costs about $35 U.S. ($268HK) per month. From this website - »www.hkbn.net/new/en/access-plan.shtml if you read the fine print, overseas websites are not included in the "up to 1 GB" speed. A dslreports poster went to Japan a while back, and indicated speeds were OK for Japanese websites, but very bad for U.S. or other non-Japanese websites.
Hong Kong has 7 million people living in about 26 square miles. »www.gov.hk/en/about/abouthk/fact···tion.pdf New York City, has 8 million people living in about 300 square miles. - »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City
We can drool over how great live would be if we were packed like sardines. We could move to Hong Kong and get in on their great lifestyle. Alternately we could try to get rich providing ISP services in our neighborhood.
How many of us are moving to Hong Kong, or setting up an ISP in the U.S. If it were easy, profitable, or desirable, many would.
We need to change our culture, and allow easier pole attachments, with a ton less regulation. That means coverage will be unfair, sometimes arbitrary, the poor, disabled, and non-English speakers may suffer. However, costs would be lower, and speeds greatly improved.
Many want the regulations, but complain about costs. Regulations caused the monopoly or duopoly we experience today. Regulations cause higher prices. Regulations are barriers to entry. Yet few want to give them up. -- Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle. |
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 | I agree with this a lot. I'm actually working with Karl to get some articles up from the independent ISP's perspective. |
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 pandoraPremium join:2001-06-01 Outland kudos:1 Reviews:
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| said by johan_hammy:I agree with this a lot. I'm actually working with Karl to get some articles up from the independent ISP's perspective. THAT would be fantastic. A report from someone who is trying to offer service would be great reading. If possible, try to find someone with wit and a bit of a sense of humor. (Adam Carolla like comes to mind). -- Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle. |
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 | said by pandora:said by johan_hammy:I agree with this a lot. I'm actually working with Karl to get some articles up from the independent ISP's perspective. THAT would be fantastic. A report from someone who is trying to offer service would be great reading. If possible, try to find someone with wit and a bit of a sense of humor. (Adam Carolla like comes to mind). *nods* I could, but I'm not a great writer. A few have blogs, so they're a starting point... working on getting it all pieced together.
»www.wirelesscowboys.com/ »www.muniwireless.com/author/roryconaway/ |
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 Count ZeroObama-Biden 2012Premium join:2007-01-18 Winston Salem, NC | reply to pandora Actually it would be about 7.9x7.9x6' cage - but I agree that it's a small amount of space no matter how you describe it. |
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 | reply to johan_hammy Please send me some of that crack you are smoking it appears to be some great stuff. |
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