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nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

[WIN8] A quick Win8 question

I recently purchased a Dell desktop with Win8.

In the past, there has been a sticker saying "Genuine Windows" (or similar), and a Windows keycode.

There is no such sticker.

Have policies changed on this, or did Dell screw up?

(There isn't a "genuine Intel sticker either, but that's only decoration so it doesn't matter).
--
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plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

I've not bought a desktop in quite some time. However, a friend of mine got a ASUS laptop in the middle of 2012. While it had Windows 7 on it, the sticker, and associated license key was placed under where the battery goes.

My understanding was that if someone was in the store, they just could not "copy" the key without a lot of trouble. Said user would have to flip the laptop over, remove the battery, and then copy it down. Lot more work, take more time, and also draw attention to the person.

So, maybe there is a place on your dell desktop that is "hidden" from normal view. Maybe if you open the case, it would be under the part that comes off?

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail



nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

I'm doubting that one would have to use tools to take off the back panel, just to get the Windows key. But I'll check that.

One possibility is the "secure boot" requirement might be replacing the use of ownership certificates. And it did come with secure boot setup.

I'm hoping for comments by people who have recently bought a Win8 box.
--
AT&T Uverse; Zyxel NBG334W router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.3 RC1; firefox 18.0.1



SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

2 edits
reply to nwrickert

said by nwrickert:

In the past, there has been a sticker saying "Genuine Windows" (or similar), and a Windows keycode.

I just bought an HP box and it's the same, no Win8 sticker. I've had it opened and didn't see anything. I've since downgraded to Win7 for which I have a sticker.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
reply to nwrickert



nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
reply to nwrickert

Thanks, everybody.

Very interesting, and much appreciated.


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to JohnInSJ

I loved this part....

quote:
Say you have bought a laptop running Windows 8, and have an OEM copy of Windows 8 Pro lying around that you want to install on that laptop.

The installer will automatically use the BIOS key during installation giving you no option to enter the retail copy product key during installation. You do end up with an activated copy of the original version of Windows and not the one that you have purchased separately.

Is there a way to get past this? I honestly do not know and would like to ask each and everyone of you to chime in and post your thoughts on how to get the installer to not use the embedded BIOS key during installation of Windows 8. (via Deskmodder)
Thank you once again you morons at Microsoft for screwing up my hardware. I'm so glad I build my own. Yet another reason to avoid a package Win 8 machine.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to nwrickert

Microsoft no longer allows the sticker. It was a problem on laptops where it was flimsy and faded out quickly or got partially rubbed off. Microsoft also changed how your key is stored. Dell had always used its factory image and its key on each new computer and if you needed to reininstall, do a clean install with a Reinstallation disk, you didn't need the key on the sticker on the side of the computer. Dell's key was used and this was why if you lost your reinstallation disk you could use any Dell reinstallation disk. Microsoft no longer allows this. The OEMs have been required to burn your personal key onto the motherboard. You cannot see it. The key that Belarc Advisor, Jellybean, etc find is NOT your key. It cannot be seen in the BIOS either although somewhere in the BIOS it says something about authentic Windows 8. There is considerable contention on this issue.

Microsoft also is doing everything it can to tightly restrict the OEMs (especially Dell) from including reinstallation media (not recovery to factory default which is different) with a new computer or upon request later. This new stance by Microsoft is causing Dell power users a lot of headache. There are posts at Dell forum about having to replace the C drive in a new Dell because it is faulty and Dell has not been able to do that because that actually means a new motherboard also and appeal to Microsoft for a new key for this Dell owner. This has caused considerable delays in getting a new computer with a bad C drive working again as Dell cannot just dispatch a new drive. Plus, a "new" motherboard is actually refurb and a power user doesn't want the motherboard replaced when the problem is the C drive because that means a perfectly good new motherboard is replaced with a refurb part to satisfy Microsoft's new rules.

For those users who like to do a clean install upon receiving their new machine, Microsoft's new policy has made that difficult. Users outside the USA report that they cannot get reinstallation media now or if Dell offers it the price for it is very high. USA users have problems also. I almost returned my new Win 8 Dell desktop because I couldn't get reinstallation media nor could I get media for a downgrade to Win 7 Pro although the main reason I bought the Pro version of Win 8 was so I would have downgrade rights if I wanted to downgrade. My case got escalated to Premium hardware support supervisors and I posted about it in Dell forums asking for help there too. Finally an excellent Dell customer service rep, contacted by a Dell forum Rockstar on my behalf, was able to contact her Dell corporate tech who was able to order two USB keys for reinstallation of Win 8 Pro and downgrade to Win 7 Pro. They were sent overnight delivery at Dell's expense and I was not charged for the keys. I was lucky though and the supervisors told me that I shook Dell up over the issue of downgrade rights and Dell's responsibility to provide reinstallation media for downgrade as well as for Windows 8. Others, posting in Dell forum, have had mediocre to poor results. In many cases, Dell has refused requests for reinstallation Win 8 media UNLESS Dell support techs determine that Windows has to be reinstalled (and the recovery disks the user was supposed to make don't work...there is a bug in the Dell backup and recovery program that causes DVD burning of recovery disks to hang on the second inserted disk unless the burner is dual layer capable-it looks like this may finally be addressed as I saw a notice at Dell support about it just a couple of days ago). In such cases, Dell informs the users that they must RETURN the reinstallation media that Dell sends them to Dell WITHIN 10 DAYS or their hardware warranty will be voided. Dell says this is due to Microsoft trying to stop any distribution of reinstallation media.

Consequently, the excellent tutorials/guides at Dell forums for clean reinstallation of Windows (all versions) when receiving a new machine, or at any time, have been removed. This is a real shame. I have bought Dells all these years because Dell alone of the OEMs has always provided reinstallation media (not recovery to factory default disks with all the crapware as the other OEMs began doing around 2003) but media for a clean install of Windows.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

said by Mele20:

Microsoft no longer allows the sticker. It was a problem on laptops where it was flimsy and faded out quickly or got partially rubbed off.

I noticed that problem (the fading) long ago. So I have been entering the code into a database. It was when I went looking for the code to put in my database, that I noticed it was missing on the Win8 box.

Microsoft also is doing everything it can to tightly restrict the OEMs (especially Dell) from including reinstallation media (not recovery to factory default which is different) with a new computer or upon request later.

I've noticed this. Dell already did that to me with a laptop (I think 2009).

My prior practice was reformat the disk, and reinstall without the bundled crapware. I guess we can't do that any more.

Fortunately, I can still use "Gparted" to shrink the disk partition, and then install linux which I find far more useful than Windows.
--
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plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

said by nwrickert:

My prior practice was reformat the disk, and reinstall without the bundled crapware. I guess we can't do that any more.

This is why I will never buy an already built (Dell, Asus, Compaq, HP, etc) system. I will build my own. My vendor of choice right now is Tigerdirect. They have multiple stores in my area, and if something is not in the store, I can order it online and have it shipped. I have also used NewEgg, and they are good as well.

Once I have my hardware, I'll buy the full version of the OS that I want. It of course comes with the proper COA, License Key, etc. Not to mention, a specific version is not burned into the BIOS so I can install and re-install different OS's to my hearts content (assuming I have the proper media and keys). In fact, if someone I know comes to me for advice on a new computer system, I make that suggestion. If they want a laptop however, they have to buy one already made. Its not like you can go buy the parts for a laptop and build it yourself (at least not yet! ).

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
reply to nwrickert

said by nwrickert:

There is no such sticker.

Did you check under the battery?


nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

said by urbanriot:

Did you check under the battery?

It is not a laptop. The only battery is the small lithium cell for CMOS settings.
--
AT&T Uverse; Buffalo WHR-300HP router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.3 RC1; firefox 18.0.2


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3

Whoops. Tricky then. Have you tried calling Dell and asking them?

I've seen a lot of new Dells lately but they've all had stickers affixed to them, the newer skinnier stickers with smaller text.



nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
kudos:7
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

said by urbanriot:

Have you tried calling Dell and asking them?

I considered that. But I decided to ask here first.

One of the problems with the modern world is that customer support people often are ill-informed, and make up answers as they go along.

On the other hand, the last time I contacted Dell support (for a different computer), I did get very useful answers.
--
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to urbanriot

There is no sticker because Microsoft forbids it on Win 8 computers. It is on Dell's support site and stated in Dell forums. There is an Intel sticker but no Microsoft COA sticker because there is no COA anymore. There is just an personal key that is burned to the motherboard and involves the C drive also. So, god forbid, you need to replace the hard drive.

I don't know where plenerb is going to buy a full new version of Win 8 Pro with Media Center so that he has a "proper COA". Has Microsoft finally started selling retail copies of Windows 8? I have read that they were never going to do that so unless they changed their minds there is no such thing as a retail version of Win 8 (plain or pro + or minus Media Center) that comes with a COA.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

1 edit

Click for full size
said by Mele20:

I don't know where plenerb is going to buy a full new version of Win 8 Pro with Media Center so that he has a "proper COA". Has Microsoft finally started selling retail copies of Windows 8? I have read that they were never going to do that so unless they changed their minds there is no such thing as a retail version of Win 8 (plain or pro + or minus Media Center) that comes with a COA.

Well, it may no longer come with a COA as has been pointed out, but Tigerdirect.com (as I said, my preferred vendor of choice) has been selling Windows 8 Pro for at least a few months now (See picture).

That is the full version of Windows 8 Pro (32 bit or 64 bit) on DVD. Once that is purchased, and installed, I can then "upgrade" it to include Media Center for a few extra dollars.

By the way, for those of you that are looking to still purchase Windows 7 versions, Tigerdirect has them too. See link below for all the versions of Windows 7 that they have for sale.

»www.tigerdirect.com/applications···tId=4622

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

Yeah....but you won't be able to move the Tiger sold Windows 8 to other computers. At least I don't see how. If there is no COA now for full versions of Win 8 then what happens when you install it on the first computer? Where's the key? Oh, I see now that I finally clicked on your link. That is NOT retail Windows 8! That is OEM.

I wouldn't buy that. How will you activate it with no key? I didn't read all the customer reviews but the ones I did read indicate this is an UPGRADE version which, as far as I know, is correct. There is NO retail Windows 8 to be bought. Since you would be buying an upgrade OEM version separate from the computer you intend to install it on, you will need to have a full version of Win 7 or XP already on that computer. So, how is it such a good deal then?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

There is no sticker because Microsoft forbids it on Win 8 computers.

... except when Microsoft insists it on the notification that accompanies their COA stickers.

quote:
Read this first

This section only applies to system builders. In order for your customers to be properly licensed, you must adhere the Certificate of Authenticity (COA) labels to your customers' PCs and distribute the media with your customers' PCs.
That's what you see when you open Microsoft part number: X18-45392 which is "Win 8 64bit English 1pk DSP OEI DVD".

... and then of course inside that is the COA sticker. Which is affixed to new PC's. Like every other Windows 8 PC that has one affixed to them.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

Yes, but that is OEM builder version of Win 8. It is NOT retail version and cannot be transferred to other computers. I would not want that. I would want either OEM version (not builder) on a new computer where the key is burnt into the motherboard or a retail version which does not exist for Win 8.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3

You've written a lot of text that isn't true and doesn't make sense. I'm simply responding to one out of many posts that you've written that's outright wrong, not responding to what you want or don't want.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

There is no retail version of Win 8. There is upgrade, OEM with key burned to motherboard and OEM builder version.



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to Mele20

I did not give a link for Windows 8, just a screen shot. Here is the link to the OEM version of Windows 8 pro x64, which was one of the items in the picture that I had posted. From what I can tell, this version is not an upgrade. Also from what I can tell by reading the page, its not an "OEM Builder", but the actual install media that can be used to install Windows 8 Pro x64, and then be used just like any other previous versions of Windows.

»www.tigerdirect.com/applications···csid=_23

The link I did provide in my previous post was Windows 7 versions, which includes both the 32 bit, 64 bit, professional, ultimate, and also upgrades.

Tigerdirect does sell an "upgrade" version of Windows 8, and that link is here

»www.tigerdirect.com/applications···csid=_61

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail



HPC

@comcast.net
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

Yes, but that is OEM builder version of Win 8. It is NOT retail version and cannot be transferred to other computers.

The Windows 8 System Builder OEM Personal Use License doesn't appear to support your claim that it cannot be transferred - can be transferred to another computer and even to another user...

"Can I transfer the software to another computer or user? You may transfer the software to another computer that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software (together with the license) to a computer owned by someone else if a) you are the first licensed user of the software and b) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. To make that transfer, you must transfer the original media, the certificate of authenticity, the product key and the proof of purchase directly to that other person, without retaining any copies of the software. "
found here: »personaluselicense.windows.com/e···lt.aspx#


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3

Good find! I have that on paper here but was unable to find it on the internet.



Bink63
Namedrop THIS
Premium
join:2002-10-06
Everywhere
reply to plencnerb

said by plencnerb:

This is why I will never buy an already built (Dell, Asus, Compaq, HP, etc) system. I will build my own... {Snippage}

If they want a laptop however, they have to buy one already made. Its not like you can go buy the parts for a laptop and build it yourself (at least not yet! ).

--Brian

I disagree Brian.

I have MANY sources for Whitebox laptops.

If I were able to handle the finances to launch my own, branded laptops, I would have a comfortable niche position in the laptop OEM segment.
--
Hopefully the Ministry Of Truth and Thought Police can sort this whole thing out.
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