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34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to InvalidError

Re: Major CRTC decision next week. - CBB

said by InvalidError:

while the cost of node splitting on coax is driven and borne almost entirely by internet service. Cablecos can even blame internet traffic for the need to invest in converting some channels to SDV to free up QAMs - cablecos need to be compensated for the opportunity cost of allocating more QAMs to internet traffic.

AFAIK with Rogers moving towards IPTV that is shifting as that traffic will go over their DOCSIS network. The Next Box 2.0 is the first device they have rolled out as part of that long term plan to move towards IPTV all together. Rogers plans to be very aggressive with the migration.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

150/10 is also a progressive roll-out on Rogers I do believe, but they still filed tariffs for it.

150/10 is a new tier advertised in size 80 font in their service description pages, which makes it pretty official and rather hard to miss, unlike the 7Mbps speed bump offered on a need-to-ask basis.

With the CRTC's request to file tariffs including upload speeds, you'll know soon enough whether Rogers decides to make it an official speed bump or make it a premium wholesale option.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to 34764170

said by 34764170:

as part of that long term plan to move towards IPTV all together. Rogers plans to be very aggressive with the migration.

"Very aggressive long-term plan" so that would mean 5+ more years of supporting a substantial installed base of conventional STBs before they start becoming actually aggressive about migrating mainstream channels to IPTV.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

said by resa1983:

150/10 is also a progressive roll-out on Rogers I do believe, but they still filed tariffs for it.

150/10 is a new tier advertised in size 80 font in their service description pages, which makes it pretty official and rather hard to miss, unlike the 7Mbps speed bump offered on a need-to-ask basis.

With the CRTC's request to file tariffs including upload speeds, you'll know soon enough whether Rogers decides to make it an official speed bump or make it a premium wholesale option.

They were bumping people to it without them even asking in 2011.. Thats the main reason I think it's unfair.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

Gami00

join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON

1 recommendation

reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

said by 34764170:

as part of that long term plan to move towards IPTV all together. Rogers plans to be very aggressive with the migration.

"Very aggressive long-term plan" so that would mean 5+ more years of supporting a substantial installed base of conventional STBs before they start becoming actually aggressive about migrating mainstream channels to IPTV.

it'll probably just as quick and aggressive as their IPv6 migration. It's already in stage 2. Stage one was that whole ipv6.rogers.ca webpage they made.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

said by InvalidError:

said by resa1983:

Hense why Rogers is in shit right now. They didn't offer TPIA 45/7, and CRTC is now asking questions:
»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2013/2013-80.htm

Is that 7Mbps on Rogers actually an "option"? There is no mention of it anywhere on Rogers' plan description so I would be inclined to believe the 7Mbps is simply something Rogers is starting to roll out and will eventually become standard but isn't quite official yet.

The optional upload speed thing is more about Bell's 15/1 vs 15/10 where they charged $4 extra, making 15/10 more expensive than 25/10 and 50/10 which makes no sense and is the reason nobody ever offered it.

Yes, 7mbps upload on Rogers is an option, and has been since 2011.

10mbps upload option on Bell is only available in certain areas, but they still filed it.

Rogers couldn't be even bothered to do that, despite offering it to new customers, and giving it to those who asked.

From my last submission:
»Re: Rogers Upstream Bonding
»Re: Rogers Upstream Bonding

SSDD - and that ain't Solid State Disk Drive.

So Rogers doesn't give TPIA the same speeds for a long time. Big deal. Now it's back in the indie court to spend money on lawyers to file & re-file & re-file documents and submissions to the CRTC - burning a big hole in their pockets with legal fees up the wazoo. Rogers doesn't give a flying f!ck. The CRTC has no teeth. And so it'll take another 6-12 months to get this shite resolved, and Rogers continues to have a competitive advantage.

It's just one regular, my friends..... another day in the life of incumbents and the impotent CRTC.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to TSI Marc

Oh well. I have no problem filing something, saving indies time & money. :P
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

said by 34764170:

as part of that long term plan to move towards IPTV all together. Rogers plans to be very aggressive with the migration.

"Very aggressive long-term plan" so that would mean 5+ more years of supporting a substantial installed base of conventional STBs before they start becoming actually aggressive about migrating mainstream channels to IPTV.

Still doesn't change the fact that increasing IPTV traffic will provide additional incentive to do further node splitting and upgrades to the nodes. Who knows what their plan is for eliminating digital cable but I could see them adding IPTV fairly quickly. From what I read their plan for roll out is over a 2 year period.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by 34764170:

Still doesn't change the fact that increasing IPTV traffic will provide additional incentive to do further node splitting and upgrades to the nodes.

Not necessarily. I would argue that the very reason why they are interested in going SDV/IPTV is to avoid exactly that.

With SDV/IPTV, you can cram many more channels per MHz since you aren't wasting spectrum on channels nobody is watching (your grid has over 300 channels but nodes only have 100-150 subscribers each who are likely watching (much) fewer than 100 unique channels collectively) which leaves more room for more data QAMs so no need to split the nodes any further.

If they converted all digital and analog TV spectrum to SDV/IPTV, cablecos would end up with over 400MHz of unused spectrum and need to fill that up. Easiest way to do that while cutting costs would actually be node merges.


andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
reply to InvalidError

A post just below yours has one,and I have seen them on ebay for about 50.Used from 10


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by andyb:

A post just below yours has one,and I have seen them on ebay for about 50.Used from 10

I did specifically ask for NON-used (brand-new) from legit/retail source. Not refurb/second-hand/potentially-stolen/non-returned units.


andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1

And I did say I seen them as low as 50.10 was used/stolen


ruiner

join:2012-03-10
Canada
reply to InvalidError

Like I posted, $126 for a VDSL modem/router combo. A modem only is likely around $100, so if that's what Bell is offering its pretty reasonable. Except that Telus doesn't charge anything for their modems and neither does Shaw. You guys are really being screwed in the East.



BW blocks

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

Oh well. I have no problem filing something, saving indies time & money. :P

Don't forget to add the the additional block of "unlimited" for videotron land customers to your complaint.

CRTC stated that blocks of B/W being sold by the incumbents must also be given to the wholesalers. This is no different.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by BW blocks :

Don't forget to add the the additional block of "unlimited" for videotron land customers to your complaint.

CRTC stated that blocks of B/W being sold by the incumbents must also be given to the wholesalers. This is no different.

It is different.

The "unlimited block" only applies to UBB but since there is no UBB on wholesale, there is no way to translate that retail option to wholesale so this particular request is non-applicable. Each ISP has to decide for itself how much of a premium "unlimited" costs them and price their equivalent tier or option accordingly.

If wholesale traffic was under the UBB regime, incumbents would certainly have been required to accommodate this somehow but under CBB, it is a dead-end since the concept of "usage block", whatever its size may be, does not exist.


andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
reply to BW blocks

As much as I hate Invalids answers to most things he is correct on usage blocks.



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

The "unlimited block" only applies to UBB

CBB, UBB, whatever. You are right.

The thing is... If Teksavvy can't sell 60/10 internet with an unlimited option for 10$/month and still be at, or below, videotron in price, then something is broken and not right.

As is they don't sell 60/3 (never mind 60/10) because they stated it would saturated their links. No money to be made or something.

But we can leave that to the beans counters at TSI to figure out how the new and increased pricing puts them in an equal wholesale position next to Videotron, and turn a profit.

They pulled it off with the 30/3 (soon to be 30/10) profile. But can they do it with the 60/10. Apparently not, per TSI.

And if they can't, then it seems to me the numbers aren't jiving with what the commission wants done.

mlord

join:2006-11-05
Nepean, ON
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

said by InvalidError:

If what was announced in Videotron's forum is real, all TGV tiers are getting bumped to 10Mbps upload in April.

That's surprising, since Videotron doesn't support upstream bonding

There have been a couple of postings here over the past few days of people reporting 3X upstream bonding in Quebec.. I assume those are on Videotron (?).

Edit: Can't find them right now.. I could have been confusing Cogeco's recent 3X uplink with Videotron in my mind.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by mlord:

Edit: Can't find them right now.. I could have been confusing Cogeco's recent 3X uplink with Videotron in my mind.

Cogeco's doing four channel 64QAM in a bunch of places, too.

But yeah, they're running three upstream channels on my node. My DPC3000 won't tell me if they're 16 or 64, though.


MJB

join:2012-01-29

Will The SBG6580 Modem Work On Teksavvy Cable? 8*4 Channel Bonding..

TSI Marc?



hm

@videotron.ca
reply to mlord

said by mlord:

said by Guspaz:

said by InvalidError:

If what was announced in Videotron's forum is real, all TGV tiers are getting bumped to 10Mbps upload in April.

That's surprising, since Videotron doesn't support upstream bonding

There have been a couple of postings here over the past few days of people reporting 3X upstream bonding in Quebec.. I assume those are on Videotron (?).

Edit: Can't find them right now.. I could have been confusing Cogeco's recent 3X uplink with Videotron in my mind.

4 channel bonding on upstream w/ videotron. Been like that for about 4 years minimum, as far as I recall.

Videotron & Shaw have been one of the best and most advanced cable companies is all of North America in terms of speed deployment in both upstream, downstream, and in terms of first to deploy. I think the Docsis 3 wiki even mentions it.

I don't know about Shaw, but Videotron has had 300-meg down and 100-meg up test beds since... going by memory since ~2009-2008.

@mlord, yeah I recall a few topics over the past few years talking about it. Tried looking, couldn't find them either.

Just came across this blog from 3 years ago though:
»www.cedmagazine.com/blogs/2010/0···h-64-qam

Been a few years... this isn't anything new with videotron. Not sure where people are getting that they have no upstream bonding...

I also seem to recall a Motorola or Cisco white-paper on videotron and their set-up and the research they all put in to become the first and fastest in all of North America. I *think* it might have been on Goldbergs blog 3-4 years ago.

Anyhow... been a few years. Nothing new.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to MJB

said by MJB:

Will The SBG6580 Modem Work On Teksavvy Cable? 8*4 Channel Bonding..

TSI Marc?

Only the modems listed on TekSavvy's website in the Approved Modems list under Cable packages are allowed by Rogers on their network.

As for will it work, some users here on DSLR have gotten non-approved Motorola modems with TekSavvy accounts. They report it as SB6121 and give them the serial number of their modem. This is not recommended though, if you ever have any issues like DHCP. line sync/quality or other issues that need to get forwarded to Rogers for a ticket, they can simply deny support on the basis of an unsupported CPE device being connected.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

2 edits
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

said by Guspaz:

The decision sucks, but the retroactive Bell discount will help them migrate as many users as they can to DSL.

And, as I said earlier, it really sucks because the footprint for them to migrate those cable customers to VDSL is piddly small compared to who they can serve with cable above 6Mbit/s right now.

 
Based on the info at the below link, 43% of Bell line loops have been upgraded to qualify for VDSL, and 59% to qualify for at least SOME level of FTTN DSL service.

»Re: Start communications as of Feb-11-2013 2Mb DSL service

This also means that 41% are limited to legacy DSL of 6Mbps and less, and that 16% (59 less 43, such as at MY location) should currently qualify for FTTN but not for VDSL.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

I dont know when exactly... I'll be on here discussing as soon as I have a better idea though.

 
Thanks.

Am catching up on thread now and see that you answered before I asked a 2nd time.

Who knows - mayhaps you added more after that - only about a dozen pages to go....

Need COFFEE !


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

SUMMARY (from Page 35 of current thread) »Re: Major CRTC decision next week. - CBB :

Bell's capacity costs dropped dropped 53%.
Telus's access costs in Alberta & BC dropped 1.8% - 24.5%
Cogeco's capacity dropped 5%. No change in access fees.
Everyone else's capacity & access went up.

Changes are retroactive to Feb 2012.
For TPIA providers who have both GAS & TPIA, the Bell refund should be able to cover the increases for Rogers Videotron & Shaw.
For those who only have TPIA on aggregated, such as Start Cable, this will be a kick to the stomach as they'll need to eat this difference as they can't retroactively charge.

Legacy 6mbps GAS unaffected.

Also:
They're opening another consultation for modem fees, different access costs (like Bell charging $90 for any FTTN install, even if you're just upgrading from another dsl service & don't need an install), and as well, asking about any OPTIONAL speeds.

The optional speeds question in the consultation is from my submission in November regarding Rogers offering 45/7 to their own customers in selected areas, and that I doubted Rogers would be offering 45/7 to TPIA - which led to Rogers being ordered to state upload speeds on their tariff refile due this month.

Business GAS will cost the same as residential GAS - no more massive increase for no service difference whatsoever. Same with Business Cable & Residential Cable.

 
Thanks.

I may pospone reading the next 10 pages and have a nap.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !

lbonnell

join:2013-02-21
reply to TSI Marc

does fttn dsl service still require dsl filters on all telephones?



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by lbonnell:

does fttn dsl service still require dsl filters on all telephones?

Yes, though Bell usually installs a POTS splitter near the demarc and then connects the modem to a dedicated non-voice jack. No filters required.

lbonnell

join:2013-02-21

is it part of the install or something you have to request extra?
i would certainly consider switching to dsl again but i hated the filters.
curious as you said "usually" what makes them decide to install or not to install the pots splitter?



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

It's part of the install.

The reason I said usually is because to the best of my knowledge they won't put one in for a dry loop, but they'll still show up to make sure that the loop is assigned properly.


bbiab

join:2004-05-26

said by Gone:

It's part of the install.

The reason I said usually is because to the best of my knowledge they won't put one in for a dry loop, but they'll still show up to make sure that the loop is assigned properly.

So then if you order a 2nd line dry and they don't put a splitter in, and then you cancel the 1st line to put the POTS on the dry, then they come back and do the job proper?